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Star Wars Rebels
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Bulldogzeta
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lane Arroway wrote:
Is it me or is the Empire terrible at catching rebels? I mean, these guys hang out on the same planet for, like 4 episodes now, and the ISB or the Inquisitor can't find them? Some invesigation on the ISB's part could lead to the rebels' contact in the criminal underworld (Visago), who should be easily convinced to sell out the rebels. Presto! A trap is set.
On this thought, can't wait to see bounty hunters after the rebels.

Not to mention that the Empire could seize every ship that matches the ghost's discription. They gotta get gas sometime, right?


In a more realistic situation there at least would have been an investigator backtracking the rebels to places they were known to have operated in and searched for witnesses and clues (in addition to the steps you mentioned). The Rebels would not have been able to stay in one place (or return there) for long.

Yeah... The Rebels would be caught one way or another if they were as sloppy as they have been. But it is a kid's show and I'm still enjoying it. I'm still picking up ideas that will be used and my players are a lot smarter and paranoid than the Rebels are.
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The Rebels pilot score featured original trilogy leitmotifs from John Williams such as Luke's theme (Main Theme), the Obi-Wan Theme (Jedi/Force theme), the Into the Trap motif from "The Battle of Endor I", and appropriately, the Rebel Fanfare from ANH. Ezra's theme is very Williams-esque without actually being John Williams. Unfortunately, I've heard that the Rebels series will actually use less Williams' themes over time.


Indeed. It's been beautiful. The Zeb character intro scene even riffed on Basket Chase from Raiders. (Did I already post that?) I do understand winding it down to avoid being repetitive, as there's only so much music they can use, and only so many times... but I'm loving it while it lasts.


Whill wrote:
Now that it has been over a week since the episode aired, would you mind telling me what the continuity element is? How does it resolve what long-running continuity question? Are you referring to the droids being away from the Organa family at times during the inter-trilogy time period? That the Droids cartoon series may have really been the result of Bail Organa sending R2 out to perform secret missions for the Rebellion?

It should be obvious, but could you explain what you are referring to anyway please? Thanks.


Basically, you got it. We've had the droids away from Bail in the Droids cartoon and comics series, and a number of other miscellaneous sources created before the PT. When the PT established them as Bail's property, the What's The Story Contest (that's one of the worst things to 'lose' to Legends, as I had a winning entry!) established that they were accidentally fired off in an escape pod during a Tantive IV systems test. (Perhaps that's why 'you're not permitted in there' in ANH- not because you're a droid, but because you have a troubled history with escape pods, R2!) Wink

Of course, Droids still comes off a bit strange as they make no attempt to find their old master and just move from master to master, accepting of moving on (but then, they do that in ANH, too)- but as a ret-con, it explained the Droids adventures pretty well. (And the idea that, retroactively, those might all have been missions from Bail, with 3PO throwing up his hands and saying 'Well, I guess we're moving on to a new life again, R2,' while R2 secretly guides them to places they can fight evil, is very cool).

But while that accounted for the ROTS-to-ANH adventures pretty well, it still left one major untold story- after all that wandering, how did the droids get BACK to Bail/the Tantive IV. And, even though this story isn't Legends and all those wanderings aren't canon anymore, I like that this ties a bow on it so that you can imagine in Legends, this is how they made it back. (Or even use this episode to imagine that the Droids series *did* happen in the new timeline if that notion isn't otherwise contradicted, and this was how their wanderings ended). that's what I was referring to.


Whill wrote:
strongarm85 wrote:
Episode 4... It's a trap though.

Arrow I realize that episodes are available on the internet before they first air on TV, but could we please adopt of spoiler policy of not posting about episodes until they air on TV? That is the official air date. Thank you.


Thank you! I have had to ditch podcasts and FB about Rebels due to this same phenomenon- I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this is a reasonable spoiler policy! Smile


Bulldogzeta wrote:
The Storm Troopers are so lame. They stand there staring at a grenade and do nothing. These are supposed to be elite troops, not army grunts.


My impression- and perhaps Filoni's as well- has always been just the opposite. I'm not bothered by this because to me, the stormies were never the elites; they never demonstrated that skill level. I've always seen them as the redshirts, not the specialists. (But, I see the idea of them as elites as surprisingly-prevalent on the Pit, so like I said, I know that's not universal- I just suspect that Filoni and I come from the same 'certain point of view' on that.)


For me, I dug that the inquisitor's lightsaber had the pirate/swashbuckled look when he just had the semi-circle extended; one of the few sword tropes that hadn't received a saber variant before. The double-bladed/spinning thing didn't bother me too much, though- I liked the idea that he was ruthless enough to treat the saber as a tool, tricking it out with gimmicks, rather than treating it with the reverence that the two big 'sects' (Jedi and Sith) do. I thought it set him apart nicely- that he's more about what he can get it to do for him than what he can do with his skill.


Regardless, 4 eps in, and while 3 was a bit lame, 4 blew me out of the water- this is seriously more enthusiastic that I have been about anything Star Wars since 1997! This show is definitely being made for fans like me- and boy, is it hitting the spot!
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Whill wrote:
Arrow I realize that episodes are available on the internet before they first air on TV, but could we please adopt of spoiler policy of not posting about episodes until they air on TV? That is the official air date. Thank you.

Thank you! I have had to ditch podcasts and FB about Rebels due to this same phenomenon- I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this is a reasonable spoiler policy! Smile

You're most certainly welcome!


Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Of course, Droids still comes off a bit strange as they make no attempt to find their old master and just move from master to master, accepting of moving on (but then, they do that in ANH, too)

I'm pretty sure that Lucasfilm wasn't too concerned with continuity in the mid-80s. The Droids TV series even contradicted Lucas' original barebones backstory for Threepio (that had almost none of his later-revealed involvement in the plot of the prequels) in the same way. After falling into disrepair due to harsh outer rim planetary climates and falling apart, Threepio was reassembled out of a junk pile by a young boy, and then he went into service with the royal family of Alderaan.

And then despite EU being formalized in the 90s, the Droids TV series being officially declared C-canon, and the prequels being made after that, Lucas was only concerned with getting the droids into Bail Organa's service by the end of RotS. No, it is not explicit in the films that the droids didn't leave and come back, but obviously Lucas felt that is for the EU to worry about and not him.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
We've had the droids away from Bail in the Droids cartoon and comics series, and a number of other miscellaneous sources created before the PT. When the PT established them as Bail's property, the What's The Story Contest (that's one of the worst things to 'lose' to Legends, as I had a winning entry!) established that they were accidentally fired off in an escape pod during a Tantive IV systems test. (Perhaps that's why 'you're not permitted in there' in ANH- not because you're a droid, but because you have a troubled history with escape pods, R2!) Wink

...but as a ret-con, it explained the Droids adventures pretty well. (And the idea that, retroactively, those might all have been missions from Bail, with 3PO throwing up his hands and saying 'Well, I guess we're moving on to a new life again, R2,' while R2 secretly guides them to places they can fight evil, is very cool).

But while that accounted for the ROTS-to-ANH adventures pretty well, it still left one major untold story- after all that wandering, how did the droids get BACK to Bail/the Tantive IV. And, even though this story isn't Legends and all those wanderings aren't canon anymore, I like that this ties a bow on it so that you can imagine in Legends, this is how they made it back. (Or even use this episode to imagine that the Droids series *did* happen in the new timeline if that notion isn't otherwise contradicted, and this was how their wanderings ended). that's what I was referring to.

I've only watched the Rebels episode in question once so far (but have them all saved on the DVR). I didn't get the impression that the droids had been gone from Bail Organa for a very long time, so I don't see this episode as showing the end of the droids' animated adventure and thus explaining how they finally ended back up with Bail after a lot of wanderings. It was my impression the droids had just been gone for this sabotage/recon mission. Could they have been sent on other missions before this? Sure.

It sounds like you have seen the Droids cartoon. My son has the Droids DVD release which is basically 2 sets of 4 related episodes of the series edited into two movies. He found it entertaining, but he got it when he was 4 (and is now 5). I find the reality of the kiddie show to be utterly ridiculous and I don't see any continuity of the show as being worth incorporating into my SWU.

But I did canonize the Droids series anyway, sort of. In my SWU, after Threepio's memory was wiped after RotS, Artoo snuck in and inserted the events of the Droids TV series as replacement memories of their early Empire adventures just to mess with him. So it doesn't matter how the droids ended up with Bail Organa because it could just be a missing memory, and that would probably annoy Threepio, much to Artoo's delight. Cool


Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Whill wrote:
The Rebels pilot score featured original trilogy leitmotifs from John Williams such as Luke's theme (Main Theme), the Obi-Wan Theme (Jedi/Force theme), the Into the Trap motif from "The Battle of Endor I", and appropriately, the Rebel Fanfare from ANH. Ezra's theme is very Williams-esque without actually being John Williams. Unfortunately, I've heard that the Rebels series will actually use less Williams' themes over time.

Indeed. It's been beautiful. The Zeb character intro scene even riffed on Basket Chase from Raiders. (Did I already post that?) I do understand winding it down to avoid being repetitive, as there's only so much music they can use, and only so many times... but I'm loving it while it lasts.

They are very intentionally using film themes (appropriately I think), but I don't yet agree with starting out that way and then intentionally using less and less Williams. The only reason I can think of them doing that is to have one additional aspect of of the show (an largely unconscious one to most viewers) have a stronger Star Wars branding to get people into it, and then go the way of TCW to have a more independent, unique musical character for the show. That's basically whoring Williams for marketing purposes. Within the context of the show, it would seem to make more sense to start the show off unique and slowly incorporate more and more classic Williams motifs as the show gets closer in time to ANH. Or just stay unique the whole time, or just use Williams the whole time. But start out all Williams then phase him out of the scoring? That doesn't settle well with me.

I'm a huge film score nerd (and a small TV score nerd), so this stuff is important to me. But yeah, just enjoy it while it lasts I guess.
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, 'Breaking Ranks'- was I the only WEG nerd cheering? Datapads are canon now! Very Happy (Unless they already appeared in the Clone Wars...)

Minor thing, but a big deal to me. Also- another great episode, I thought (especially with introducing space combat to Rebels in a big way). 5 in, and only 1 'filler' story... I am very much liking this batting average!
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
So, 'Breaking Ranks'- was I the only WEG nerd cheering? Datapads are canon now! Very Happy (Unless they already appeared in the Clone Wars...)

Minor thing, but a big deal to me.

I am more amazed that datapads exist in real life now. And yes, I am sure you were the only WEG nerd cheering for datapads. Cool

I think WEG filled in a few sci-fi blanks from Star Trek (turbolifts even use the Star Trek name for the tech). I originally envisioned datapads similar to the things the yeomans always gave Captain Kirk to sign, except in light of TNG I did envision them as having touchscreens (and thus not needing the stylus thingy). Over the years I haven't used datapads in the game for much more than composing, saving and reading text files because when I started playing this game in 1988, datapads were still sci-fi. Of course this is coming from the guy who didn't even take keyboarding in high school because I didn't think I would ever need the skill (which I regretted as soon as college).

Now I see Star Wars datapads as pretty much the same thing as iPads and other tablets we have now, so they would have similar basic apps and functions. No they shouldn't have holo-technology, but it is reasonable that they can access local wireless internets (text, images, 2D videos, datafiles, etc.).
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Over the years I haven't used datapads in the game for much more than composing, saving and reading text files because when I started playing this game in 1988, datapads were still sci-fi. Of course this is coming from the guy who didn't even take keyboarding in high school because I didn't think I would ever need the skill (which I regretted as soon as college).

Now I see Star Wars datapads as pretty much the same thing as iPads and other tablets we have now, so they would have similar basic apps and functions. No they shouldn't have holo-technology, but it is reasonable that they can access local wireless internets (text, images, 2D videos, datafiles, etc.).


I've used them- and started to revise their capabilities lately- much the same way.

EDIT: Wookiepedia says that the podrace viewer Shmi, Qui-gon, and the group use to watch Anain's progress was supposed to be a datapad. Interesting. So this represented a first name-drop, not a first appearance.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got done with the Lianna adventure and (warning...SPOILERS follow) the PCs downloaded all of the NOVA files onto their datapads.

Then about five hours later, just as they were leaving the system, a virus installed in the programs deleted itself, as well as everything else on each datapad!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have noticed a lot of the stuff in rebels is original concept art. The big alien in the group is a lot like the original concept for Chewie. The imperial hover tank seen was first a toy back in the early 80s. Evenly the gun runner's droids are in the first edition source book. I can't wait to see what's next. Side point general Cracken has his own Lego mini-figure in the new b-wing set.
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strongarm85
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw the "Empire Day" Episode. It's pretty good and moves the plot along. 7 episodes in and it feels like they've only really done 1 filler episode.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
To me- and this dovetails with other discussions we've had recently- there's a brash adventure, Flash Gordon-esque tone of daring heroics and wonder at the Force and the galaxy that really embody the original trilogy (and to OT fans like myself, all of Star Wars, which made its perceived lack in the PT/CW cause them to not feel like Star Wars, hence the dislike of them). There's a ragtag feel; a group of underdogs snatching victory from defeat, improvising- a simplicity of bold adventure in which good and evil are clearly demarcated and (like the RPG) telling a simple, exciting, straightforward adventure is paramount in the storytelling.

Certainly, this doesn't preclude going to dark places narratively (ESB, anyone?)- but it does mean that while the characters may experience grim things and go through grim times, while there may be pain or sorrow, it's not about psychological darkness and moral ambiguity or deep inner conflict (except, perhaps, between the light side and the dark side). That sort of weighty, gritty, 'real-world' stuff is left to other forms of entertainment, and, well... to real life. Smile Even when the heroes are losing and the situation looks grim, there is never a feeling of nihilism or that the darkness will win, but an optimism that (like the ending of ESB), good can rally, and *can* overcome this.

There is an element of escapism... not necessarily meaning fluff storytelling in which nothing bad ever happens- but focused on hope, and the idea that good will always triumph in the end. There's swashbuckling and adventure, heroics, larger-than-life actions performed by throttle-jockeys and freedom-fighters and guys and gals with nothing but attitude and a blaster just as often as any Force-user.

And there's mystery. The Force, and the Jedi, and any such supernatural trappings, are held at a remove. Even when the characters know them well, when the concepts are culturally ingrained, we as the audience are still held to approach them as deep, vast, unfathomable mysteries- bigger than we know (or will find out), full of awe and mysticism, with nature and capabilities and limits unknown to us; there's always a sense of discovery. A sense of the frontier. A sense of something new- never taken for granted- right around the corner.

And there are characters with real human feelings- bonds of friendship and camaraderie, rivalry and jealousy, conflict and respect... they interact like people, and live on the streets, down amongst the heart of the average joes of the galaxy, rather than at a remove from them. Basically, they are down-to-earth... despite the lack of Earth anywhere in the vicinity.

There's more, I'm sure- but in brief, that's what Star Wars/the OT (to me the two are the same thing) is to me. Brash heroics, Flash Gordon-esque swashbuckling adventure, a little fun and a lot of mystery, a sense of discovery, relatable characters, and a clear protagonist. It's why I love the works that I love (films and beyond) and dislike the ones I dislike- for embodying or failing to embody that spirit that, to me, nothing can be true Star Wars without.

And that's the feel, tone, and flavor that Rebels is working to capture- at least, IMHO.


Fantastic post/review. *prints and frames it* Wink

This answers the PM I sent you a few minutes ago -- except for the part I left out about how you're doing, etc. Your post puts into words how I felt about the show and why I've enjoyed watching the episodes with my two boys. In fact, this is the first show not on one of the kiddie channels to capture the attention of my 17-month old. Very Happy
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Zudrak
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
(snip) ...this is seriously more enthusiastic that I have been about anything Star Wars since 1997! This show is definitely being made for fans like me- and boy, is it hitting the spot!


This is exactly my reaction to the show. It's been phenomenal. I said I hadn't been this excited about Star Wars since the closing credits of ROTJ in 1983 (though I suppose 1997 would be more correct since I went to the movies a lot in January - March of 1997!).
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

griff wrote:
I have noticed a lot of the stuff in rebels is original concept art. The big alien in the group is a lot like the original concept for Chewie. The imperial hover tank seen was first a toy back in the early 80s. Evenly the gun runner's droids are in the first edition source book. I can't wait to see what's next. Side point general Cracken has his own Lego mini-figure in the new b-wing set.


Now that you mention it, Zeb does look like original concept art for Chewie! I hadn't recognized that until you pointed it out.

@Zudrak: Interesting that you point out the "kiddie channel" thing. Here the show airs on a "kid's channel" (Disney XD), complete with advertisements for children and the like.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're back, huzzah!

I swear, Rebels can't ALWAYS be this good; it's just not statistically possible. Smile But once again, they don't disappoint!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:50 am    Post subject: Re: Idiot's Array Reply with quote

Something just seemed a bit off with Billy Dee Williams' performance. I'm not totally sure how. Anyone else feel that way? It seemed a bit... slow or something. I didn't get that impression from his performance in The Lego Movie or The Yoda Chronicles, but maybe it was less noticeable in those because he had much shorter bits of dialogue. In RotJ Williams was a 45 year-old actor playing a 35 year-old character, but in Rebels he was a 77 year-old actor playing a 26 year-old character. I wouldn't have thought that age would be a huge factor in vocal performances, but now I wonder. I can't quite place it, but I'm having a hard time imagining the Rebels Lando ever becoming the Cloud City Lando in TESB.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill- I agree completely! I caught it, too. He was just... not quite Lando. I'm not sure if it was the vocal pitch, or the characterization- but he didn't quite capture it the way he usually does.

It was still great to hear him, though! Smile
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