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New Galaxy Map
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hot damn, this is a REALLY nice map! My only complaint is that it's oriented with True North at 90 degrees to the left, instead of being at the top of the page. It's a pain in the @$$ to crane my neck to my right shoulder just to be able to read this map, lol. Smile

EDIT: One error I just found: Yag'Dhul (the homeworld of the Givins incidentally) is misspelled as "Yah'Dhul". D*mn those adjacent keys!

EDIT 2: But this map with its Edit/Find function and in conjuction with Anguifed's (the original poster of this thread) combined Sectors map should make finding any planet in the Star Wars EU a snap.

Have map(s) of the Galaxy, will travel.

EDIT 3: Shouldn't the "1,000-5 ABY" line read "1,000 BBY - 5 ABY" instead? That's not supposed to be 1,000 years after the Battle of Yavin on your map, right?
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Meriba
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Hot d*mn, this is a REALLY nice map! My only complaint is that it's oriented with True North at 90 degrees to the left, instead of being at the top of the page. It's a pain in the @$$ to crane my neck to my right shoulder just to be able to read this map, lol. Smile

There is no true north in the universe. Yes, the original map specifies one, but all these systems are moving all the time, like our universe (our star sky is not the same now than a millenia ago). I've included the north mark merely as courtesy.

Yes, I could made it the same way, but I've done differently because I prefer an horizontal poster in the wall, and the original had restraints as book orientation.
Quote:
EDIT: One error I just found: Yag'Dhul (the homeworld of the Givins incidentally) is misspelled as "Yah'Dhul". D*mn those adjacent keys!

Thank you very much, my pleasure to correct it. D*mn adjacent keys! Very Happy SW_GM
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EDIT 2: But this map with its Edit/Find function and in conjuction with Anguifed's (the original poster of this thread) combined Sectors map should make finding any planet in the Star Wars EU a snap.

Your pdf viewer has Search function (ctrl + F in Acrobat). Quick and easy.

I would prefer an app, but It's not my prime objective right now.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:

EDIT 3: Shouldn't the "1,000-5 ABY" line read "1,000 BBY - 5 ABY" instead? That's not supposed to be 1,000 years after the Battle of Yavin on your map, right?


Granted, this was my latest edit to my post so you might have missed it, but did you take note of this, Meriba?

Also, concerning the planets depicted in TFA, Jakku is way too far out into the Unknown Regions. (I don't have a problem with where Takodana is, because even though it's not in a colored sector, it's still within the Freestanding subsectors and thus still part of the Known Galaxy AKA within the bounds of galactic civilization.) But shouldn't Jakku be moved closer to the frontier of the Inner Rim bordering the Unknown Regions? If Jakku was in the Unknown Regions, there wouldn't be any galactic trade going on there or any connection to the Known Galaxy at all. My suggstion would be to move Jakku closer to the Inner Rim frontier where Mindabaal, Donadus, Walalla, Tasariq, Shasfath and K’taktaxka all are. For further proof, look at the canon TFA map: Jakku is right on the Unknown Regions-Inner Rim border, so it definitely needs to be moved.

Furthermore, Jakku's present location, at least as I can estimate from the holographic map depicted in TFA, looks to be where Ahch-To (the first Jedi temple planet where Luke is hiding out) should be roughly located. So maybe rename the present-Jakku as Ahch-To and just make a new planet for Jakku on the Inner Rim border?
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Meriba
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right, I missed it completely. Embarassed I think everybody understands the 1,000 - 5 ABY annotation, but I can change it to be more accurate.

About the TFA planets location, I use this map:
Official map?

If anybody has a better/updated map, please link it. I'm with you, Jakku location seems odd, but I prefer not to include/change things without official data.
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Error
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is slightly off-topic, but I'm really glad that Wild Space and the Unknown Regions have been largely left alone and are bereft of large numbers of worlds. This is excellent when it comes to enemies or aliens no one has seen before popping up in your campaign!
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meriba wrote:
You are right, I missed it completely. Embarassed I think everybody understands the 1,000 - 5 ABY annotation, but I can change it to be more accurate.


Yeah, it's not the sort of thing most people would complain about (I suppose), but that's the kind of thing that sticks out like a sore thumb to my eyes. Then again, I'm a hugely visual Rules Lawyer, so I tend to notice things like that (if I'm not too distracted to notice them).

Meriba wrote:
About the TFA planets location, I use this map:
Official map?

If anybody has a better/updated map, please link it. I'm with you, Jakku location seems odd, but I prefer not to include/change things without official data.


Yes, that's the official map. And the instructions I gave above are (at least to my mind) coinciding with that map. If you look very closely, you'll see that Jakku is on the very edge of the shaded area indicating the Unknown Regions, so my instructions *are* in line with the official map.

Trading the present/uncorrected Jakku location with Ahch-To is a bit of a guesstimate on my part, I'll readily admit that. So if you don't want to include Ahch-To for the time being until we get something more official when Ep. VIII rolls around, that's fine.

But moving Jakku to the edge of the Inner Rim/Unknown Regions border is something I have to, in good conscience, insist on.

EDIT:
Error wrote:
This is slightly off-topic, but I'm really glad that Wild Space and the Unknown Regions have been largely left alone and are bereft of large numbers of worlds. This is excellent when it comes to enemies or aliens no one has seen before popping up in your campaign!


Agreed, a margin/region that is totally unexplored that GMs can use for homeruled campaigns is probably not what the Star Wars cartographers/Yuuzhan Vong authors intended when the Vector Prime novel (first known instance of an actual official SW Galaxy map that I know of) came out, but damn if it's not nice to have.
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Error
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Error wrote:
This is slightly off-topic, but I'm really glad that Wild Space and the Unknown Regions have been largely left alone and are bereft of large numbers of worlds. This is excellent when it comes to enemies or aliens no one has seen before popping up in your campaign!


Agreed, a margin/region that is totally unexplored that GMs can use for homeruled campaigns is probably not what the Star Wars cartographers/Yuuzhan Vong authors intended when the Vector Prime novel (first known instance of an actual official SW Galaxy map that I know of) came out, but d*mn if it's not nice to have.

Did they map Wild Space or the Unknown Regions? Or is that just the first time anyone wrote a map of the galaxy?
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Error wrote:
This is slightly off-topic, but I'm really glad that Wild Space and the Unknown Regions have been largely left alone and are bereft of large numbers of worlds. This is excellent when it comes to enemies or aliens no one has seen before popping up in your campaign!


Agreed, a margin/region that is totally unexplored that GMs can use for homeruled campaigns is probably not what the Star Wars cartographers/Yuuzhan Vong authors intended when the Vector Prime novel (first known instance of an actual official SW Galaxy map that I know of) came out, but d*mn if it's not nice to have.

Did they map Wild Space or the Unknown Regions? Or is that just the first time anyone wrote a map of the galaxy?


The Unknown Regions and Wild Space were both in the galaxy map of the hardcover version of Vector Prime. I can't confirm if there were any official maps of the SW Galaxy before Vector Prime was published, but that was absolutely the first ever official map of the Galaxy I ever saw. I still remember seeing that inside cover in 1999 and squeeing because I had been waiting for such a thing ever since I first saw A New Hope, waaaaaay back in 1977.

And if you're asking if Wild Space and/or the Unknown Regions were ever individually mapped, aside from individual maps of the Chiss Ascendancy, the answer is no (or at least, not that I know of). Wild Space and (especially) the Unknown Regions were specifically stated to be unmapped by their very definition.

To quote a cross-genre statement that is somewhat relevant here:

"How am I supposed to know what unknown means? It means unknown! It means nobody knows what it means!" - Gus Gorman, Superman 3
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if some other unknown species out in the Unknown Regions map it. Wouldn't be surprised if there were fifty of them that mapped their little corners of it at least. It can't be completely devoid of sentient life. In fact if it follows the pattern set by the rest of the Galaxy, there will be lots of it.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
Haha. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if some other unknown species out in the Unknown Regions map it. Wouldn't be surprised if there were fifty of them that mapped their little corners of it at least. It can't be completely devoid of sentient life. In fact if it follows the pattern set by the rest of the Galaxy, there will be lots of it.


Hell, at the very least, according to Legends continuity, the Chiss Ascendancy is located in the Unknown Regions; it's theorized that the Chiss are the descendants of a long-lost near-human colony (perhaps sent from Coruscant before the establishment of the Old Republic?) that developed their blue skin and red eyes as a result of their evolution since colonizing Csilla (the Chiss homeworld). And if Thrawn's recanonization in Star Wars Rebels is any indication, the Chiss Ascendancy might very well still be located in the same place in the Unknown Regions in the present canon.

And now, with The Force Awakens placing the first Jedi Temple on Ahch-To also being canon, we're left with the inevitable conclusion that the Jedi, of all things in galactic civilization, came from the Unknown Regions as well (rather than originating within [an albeit somewhat isolated part of] galactic civilization in the Legends continuity). Which begs the questions: 1) just how old is that first Jedi Temple at Ahch-To? 2) just what motivated them to leave their refuge that was located in the most isolated part of the galaxy and join galactic civilization? and 3) What role did the Jedi play in the formation of the Republic, assuming the Jedi predate the Republic at all? And if the Jedi don't predate the Republic, how did their entry into galactic civilization and presumed assimilation into the Republic happen?

I would expect any in-universe Star Wars archaeologists studying Ahch-To to have a field day with these questions. Not to mention us Real Life fanboys looking at it from our out-of-universe perspective.
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Meriba
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've made a superposition of the two maps. They don't match but we can estimate an approximate position.

https://i.imgsafe.org/8ec577f8f0.jpg

I could move Jakku and Takodana a little bit, but the problem is the same: Jakku is too far from possible commercial routes.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, and there's a further problem: Han Solo mentions Jakku as being in the Western Reaches, but if you look this map

http://holocron.swcombine.com/images/d/d4/Map-RegionalTerritories.jpg

you'll see that the Western Reaches are in the Galactic South and don't even extend to the Inner Rim-Unknown Regions border, although it would make sense to me that Jakku would be located there because that's well within the known Galaxy and established trade routes. Jakku being located in the Unknown Regions always struck me as illogical and wrong-headed. If it were up to me, I'd place Jakku somewhere west of the intersection of the Corellian Trade Spine and the Rimma Trade Route, probably along the very western edge of the Western Reaches in the Inner Rim.

But everything I've just stated leads us to the inevitable conclusion that the official map is wrong.

Yeah, it's not the first time that The Powers That Be have been wrong; continuity snarls requiring retcons happen all the time. And this is just a fan map, so it won't matter to anyone except us. But everything I feel just screams that Jakku is too far out in the Unknown Regions to make any sense.

EDIT: Hell, Jakku isn't even located in the Western Reaches in the official map. Just look at the back box denoting the Western Reaches in the official map. Jakku isn't anywhere near it. Methinks Disney goofed big time.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least we have spent a big time discussing about this. Smile

As all other universe of fiction, it's almost impossible to make it 100% coherent. I'll be expecting of new official data to improve the map.

Thanks by all your corrections Sutehp, this is how we can make better tools for all of us.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't suppose there's any way to get in contact with Disney and let them know of this discrepancy? Because if they corrected this before or when Episode VIII comes out, that would be awesome.

The only other alternative that would satisfy me is if Meriba would be willing to make a separate file for me that would have Jakku where I want it...but then that would mean every time we make another correction or addition, Meriba would have to do the same thing again to my file. That's alot to ask.

Either that, or Meriba would have to tell me what map tools/programs he's using and I'd have to get them myself AND learn how to use them.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meriba wrote:
There is no true north in the universe. Yes, the original map specifies one, but all these systems are moving all the time, like our universe (our star sky is not the same now than a millenia ago). I've included the north mark merely as courtesy.

Yes, I could made it the same way, but I've done differently because I prefer an horizontal poster in the wall, and the original had restraints as book orientation.

There is no true north in the universe but there is such a thing as galactic north in the plane of Star Wars galaxy. The galactic directions even still exists in canon. It's normal for us to expect north to be oriented as up as real world maps, and it would match most SW galaxy maps we already have. Yes, you are correct that the systems would always be moving like the would in a real galaxy, but the movement is very slow on a galactic scale, so any map could be a fairly accurate representation over the course of even centuries. (It would take a very long time for any system to move outside of the dot on the map.) Just sayin'.

But this is your yard, and you are kind enough to let us play in it. You of course should make the map to your liking first, and the fact that you share it is pure bonus for us. I truly appreciate your work and that you indicated the north direction it as a courtesy. Thank you.

Meriba wrote:
About the TFA planets location, I use this map:
Official map?

If anybody has a better/updated map, please link it.

Star Wars Galactic Maps: An Illustrated Atlas of the Star Wars Universe was just released today. I intend to pick it up as soon as I can.
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