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Noticeable Differences
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:23 pm    Post subject: Noticeable Differences Reply with quote

What are the very most obvious differences between 1E and R&E that would be apparent to a player (not GM) who, letís say, experienced a few sessions of one and a few sessions of the other, without ever seeing a rulebook?

Wild Die, obviously.

What else?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Noticeable Differences Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
What are the very most obvious differences between 1E and R&E that would be apparent to a player (not GM) who, letís say, experienced a few sessions of one and a few sessions of the other, without ever seeing a rulebook?

Wild Die, obviously.

What else?

Since R&E is game-mechanically nearly identical to 2e, what you seem to really be asking is what are the major differences between the first and second edition rules of the game. Unless you really want to include the full color presentation of R&E with many images from the films and color artwork which neither previous core book had. But from your citation of the wild die, you seem to be asking game system edition differences.
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I donít mean to place undue emphasis on R&E vs just saying 2E in general, but I wanted to be specific since I am not sure just how much is different between the unrevised and revised 2E rules (and itís immaterial to my question).

My friend ran two sessions using the 2E R&E rules, and Iím planning to run a 1E game, so, Iím wondering what sort of changes I would have to explain to the players (or alternatively port in those things from the 2E R&E).
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Pel
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed codes for one. 2E introduced static speeds for all vehicles, whereas 1st Ed. had a variable dice value (e.g. an A-wing's speed of 12 was originally expressed as 6D in 1E).

1E also had fewer skills covering a wider range, like the old Technology skill.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
I wanted to be specific since I am not sure just how much is different between the unrevised and revised 2E rules (and itís immaterial to my question).

I'm sorry. Please forgive my misunderstanding.
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Pel
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Different damage/injury totals.

1st Edition:
    2x Damage Roll (DR) < Strength Roll (SR): no effect
    DR < SR: Stunned (-1D to actions for one round)
    DR > or = SR: Wounded
    DR > or = 2x SR: Incapacitated
    DR > or = 3x SR: Mortally Wounded


2nd Edition R&E:
    DR < SR: No effect
    DR 0-3 more than SR: Stunned
    DR 4-8 more than SR: Wounded
    DR 9-12 more than SR: Incapacitated
    DR 13-15 more than SR: Mortally Wounded
    DR 16+ more than SR: Dead, Killed, Beyond the Mortal Coil, etc.

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Cap'nCodskale
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:18 pm    Post subject: Down for the count Reply with quote

Differences in damage/injury are even more extreme in 1E RAW without Rules Upgrade or Companion.

Quote:
A stunned character falls prone, and can't do anything for the rest of the combat round.

This means a target needs only to be hit to be out of commission for the rest of the round. I can imagine this doesn't work for some people, esp. the way characters can take and dish out wounds in other RPGs.

For me, the rule works as is. It encourages everyone to keep heads cool and, failing that, to keep heads down.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a PLAYER here is what I think you'd notice. The players tend not to be as concerned with charts and vehicle stats and the like as the GM in my experience.

Skill Points aka Character Points. You could ONLY spend them to increase stats. No using them to escape from bad die rolls in the game.

No skill specialization in 1st edition. No breaking up a single starting die into 3 specialized skils such as Blaster: Heavy Blaster Pistol, Starship Repair: Stock Light Freighter Repair, and Con: Customs Officials. You had to decide between blaster, con and repair, and that was that, unless you wanted to go for the bad deal of breaking a starting die up into pips.

The Move stat was not (as I recall) a thing in first edition but was in second. I'd have to consult my old books to be sure. No one seemed to notice that though, compared to whatever first used, unless you played the RPG with miniatures. The GM usually just guesstimated distances and movement to keep the game moving fast.

For miniatures battles, it was more notable. In fact maybe the only obvious difference between SWMB editions was the creation of the Move characteristic and a resultant, across the board, increase in SGP's for all games. Priot to that, Walk and Run rates were calculated from a model's DEX.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
The Move stat was not (as I recall) a thing in first edition but was in second.


Yep, First Edition uses a Speed Code. For characters, it's your DEX. Vehicles have assigned Speed Codes.

As with everything in 1E, it's simple. You don't have to count ground squares or space units. Just roll the dice. Whomever wins the toss is faster.

I think the Speed Codes should have stayed in the game in 2E, along side the MOVE rating.

There is a conversion for MOVE to Speed Codes.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:

No skill specialization in 1st edition. No breaking up a single starting die into 3 specialized skils such as Blaster: Heavy Blaster Pistol, Starship Repair: Stock Light Freighter Repair, and Con: Customs Officials. You had to decide between blaster, con and repair, and that was that, unless you wanted to go for the bad deal of breaking a starting die up into pips.


I thought 1e did have specialties.. DAMN..
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 1E (as compared to 2E)...

Speed Codes.

Less Skills in the game.

No Wild Die.

No skill specialization.

No Character Points.

Typically throw less number of dice on a throw.

Uses Skill Points.

No sensors.

No Initiative roll.

No Force Sensitivity

Different Damage Chart

Less details on vehicle/starship stat blocks

Characters have bare-minimum stat blocks.

Equipment has bare-minimum stat blocks.

More generic, less specific, equipment (less model numbers and fine details).

Droids and Aliens created in a snap.

Quick, streamlined space combat.



What did I leave out?
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Zulgyan
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed Codes

I think I prefer 1E on this.

Less Skills in the game.

I definitely prefer 1E on this.

No Wild Die.

I strongly prefer 1E on this.

No skill specialization

I should read 2E closely, but I think I prefer 1E on this.

No Character Points

Not sure, but it sounds metagamy. I think a prefer 1E on this.

Typically throw less number of dice on a throw

I definitely prefer 1E on this.

Uses Skill Points.

I'm OK with this.

No sensors.

I have no idea what "sensors" are.

No Initiative roll.

I found myself craving for an initiative roll in the larger battles, so I could handle them more orderly.

No Force Sensitivity

I prefer 1E on this. I believe it's closer to the feel of the original trilogy.

Different Damage Chart

I'm liking the simplicity of 1E.

Less details on vehicle/starship stat blocks

I prefer 1E on this, for now.

Characters have bare-minimum stat blocks.

I prefer 1E on this, for now.

Equipment has bare-minimum stat blocks.

I prefer 1E on this, for now.

More generic, less specific, equipment (less model numbers and fine details).

I prefer 1E on this, for now.

Droids and Aliens created in a snap.

I love this from 1E.

Quick, streamlined space combat.

Haven't had a space battle yet, so I prefer simple for now.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zulgyan wrote:
No sensors.

I have no idea what "sensors" are.


I shouldn't say "no" sensors. The Star Wars Sourcebook definitely covers them. It's just that 1E takes a very hands off, easy approach.

Handling sensors is left to the GM. Most time, ships either detect something, or they don't.

What are the story requirements? The Falcon easily sees the Star Destroyers in orbit. The Falcon doesn't see the Slave I following them to Bespin.

The Star Wars Sourcebook goes into some details about sensors and how they work, but here are no game rules. If a GM wants to see if the PC detects Black Sun ambushers in the asteroid field, then he can make up a roll--or not. It's up to him.

Quick-n-easy. Whatever the GM wants. That's 1E.





2E gets more crunchy.

They added Sensors skill--another thing Pilots have to put dice into. (In 1E, if I ever needed a Sensors roll, I'd just use Astrogation. Works well. And, you've got to think, Astrogation primarly is about working with sensors and sensor data.)

The are four different types of scan a ship can make: Passive, Scan, Search, Focus.

Each of those scans are given ranges (4 separate ranges), and each ship has a dice bonus for the equipment used when making sensor scans.

It's neat and detailed, but it's not the simple, roll-n-go of 1E.

I like both, but I tend to go with 1E sensors. It's fun, easy, no fuss, no mess.

I've seen some 2E SW GMs require sensor locks before a ship can fire at a target. That's nice for Star Trek, but it doesn't feel like slam-bam 1E. Assume the lock, and FIRE!
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zulgyan wrote:
[No skill specialization

I should read 2E closely, but I think I prefer 1E on this.

No Character Points

Not sure, but it sounds metagamy. I think a prefer 1E on this.


Typically throw less number of dice on a throw

I definitely prefer 1E on this.


Specialization and Character Points are nice ideas, but the negative thing they bring to the game is that they boost the average number of dice a player throws.

Specialization makes primary skills even higher.

CPs are extra dice a character can spend to increase his chances--usually +2D to a regular throw, but up to +5D on a defensive throw.

The Wild Die can add to the amount of dice thrown, too.

Thus, instead of averaging 2D, 3D, even 4D in 1E on a throw, the average throw is higher.
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Zulgyan
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:

CPs are extra dice a character can spend to increase his chances--usually +2D to a regular throw, but up to +5D on a defensive throw.


I don't see the use for this in the game at all. Maybe a 2E gamemaster can provide another perspective?

It's a pure "gamist rule", with no relation to the cinematic SW experience (the reason to play the game IMO)

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:

2E gets more crunchy.

They added Sensors skill--another thing Pilots have to put dice into. (In 1E, if I ever needed a Sensors roll, I'd just use Astrogation. Works well. And, you've got to think, Astrogation primarly is about working with sensors and sensor data.)

The are four different types of scan a ship can make: Passive, Scan, Search, Focus.

Each of those scans are given ranges (4 separate ranges), and each ship has a dice bonus for the equipment used when making sensor scans.


That seems unnecessarily complicated for an aspect of the SW universe that is clearly not the focus of the movies. As you say, it feels more Treky than Starwarsy.
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