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Music in Star Wars
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even Mozart didn’t compose all his own recitatives and overtures.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Sail Barge Assault Reply with quote

WillTasker wrote:
Composer/Orchestrator William Stromberg confirmed on Film Score Monthly that the Sail Barge Attack in ROTJ was actually written by Fred Steiner due to last minute deadlines. The original, unused one (on disc four of the Arista box set) was Williams's. And while the cue is certainly properly credited to Williams - as there is a subtly about sheet music credit that I'd rather not fail at explaining - the "actual work" on that was someone else's.

Thanks for the additional info, Will. I looked into it some more. On trekmovie.com, Steiner's obituary described what he did as "rewriting". The topic has been discussed on the John William Fan Network and opinions vary as to whether Steiner was actually involved, and for those that believe he was, to what degree. Some describe what he did with the second version of that cue as "arrangement", and from what I understand, if that were true then I would agree with Steiner deserving credit for some of the work. From what I can ascertain, it seems likely that Lucas requested a more thematic version of the sail barge assault cue (using more of Luke's theme and the Rebel Fanfare) and Steiner could have been the one to make it.

However there are a lot of similarities between the two versions, so Steiner didn't start from scratch. The second version was clearly based on the original with some specific changes implemented in parts. And this still wouldn't be considered ghostwriting so I disagree with using that term to describe it and stand by my original objection to that. Ghostwriting is a premeditated situation where someone else is hired in advance to write something that someone else is getting credit for. This may be spitting hairs to you but, I feel it is an important distinction. No matter what Steiner came in to do with that track late in post-production, RotJ is a John Williams score.

And by the way, although the original cue was first available on the Arista anthology set (1993), both versions have also been available on every release of the RotJ soundtrack since 1997. And the version heard in the film is actually an edited version of the second cue to synch up to late stage edits to the scene, which actually prevent a thematic snafu in the film by cutting out part of the full statement of the Tie Fighter Attack motif which would be out of place in the Sail Barge Assault scene.
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone else find the ANH score to be the most varied of all the SW film scores? Specifically, I’ve been listening to the TLJ soundtrack, and, like the TFA score it is brooding, melancholy, and darkly militaristic but not very heroic. ANH soars to exciting heights. It’s poignant, romantic, and adventurous. Believe me, there’s lots to love in every other SW soundtrack, but, did ESB start a trend towards a “dark” series?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Sail Barge Assault Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
And by the way, although the original cue was first available on the Arista anthology set (1993), both versions have also been available on every release of the RotJ soundtrack since 1997.


The Sony 2CD sets are inferior across the board. Not only in editing, but the sound mix on ESB and ROTJ are *terrible*. Arista Box or bust.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Sail Barge Assault Reply with quote

WillTasker wrote:
Composer/Orchestrator William Stromberg confirmed on Film Score Monthly that the Sail Barge Attack in ROTJ was actually written by Fred Steiner due to last minute deadlines. The original, unused one (on disc four of the Arista box set) was Williams's.
Whill wrote:
And by the way, although the original cue was first available on the Arista anthology set (1993), both versions have also been available on every release of the RotJ soundtrack since 1997.
WillTasker wrote:
The Sony 2CD sets are inferior across the board. Not only in editing, but the sound mix on ESB and ROTJ are *terrible*. Arista Box or bust.

I love the Arista box set. I only brought up the Sony releases because your statement about the source of the original unused cue for the sail barge attack suggests that is the only place for it, when that is not the case. I wanted that to be clear for anyone reading. My statement was factual with absolutely no implication of Sony superiority or equality of sound quality. And the Sony releases are the sole source for many tracks so so they are necessary for completists such as myself.
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boston Pops Orchestra put out a CD called Lights, Camera...Music! Six Decades of John Williams which includes, among other things, a recording of the The Force Awakens Suite. In other words, it’s five “concert arrangements” of themes from TFA.

1. March of the Resistance
2. Rey’s Theme
3. Scherzo for X-Wings
4. The Jedi Steps
5. Finale

Now, some of these are on the TFA original soundtrack, but, #4 has been greatly expanded (which is wonderful, because this is a great theme that was too short before), and #5 has been somewhat expanded and tweaked, I think. More importantly, if you ever (like me) thought some of the TFA soundtrack was kind of catchy, but the overall soundtrack was rather hard to listen to (heavy? depressing?), CHECK THIS OUT. I don’t know if it’s the performance or the sound mix (I think a bit of both), but, tracks which I thought were just okay on the TFA soundtrack absolutely ROCK here. Overall, it’s 18 minutes of pure pleasure.

ADDITIONALLY, John Williams has composed a new “Han and Leia” suite. It’s a variant of the old ESB “Han Solo and the Princess,” but there is a lot of new material and it has a very different character. No recording has been released, but someone took a video at a live concert, which is pretty good…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KboCO09N7A4

And someone else made an MP3 from that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10LwgMZoBnhV_v5i4tYJ2kD4xycpKYKr5/view?usp=sharing

I imagine it as Leia contemplating her relationship with Han at the time of their reunion in TFA, or else after his death.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case it was unclear, the expanded Jedi Steps suite (and everything I’ve mentioned above) was composed by John Williams.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool! Thanks, Falconer!
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably already been mentioned but I use Tabletop Audio.

Web browser player with a huge collection of high quality, looped ambient music and 'not cheesy' soundboards.

Use to create playlists of various kinds but I now use it for all my RPGs.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s a great 2-part podcast about the TFA score. It’s very entertaining and insightful. I almost never listen to podcasts, but this was well worth it! Part 1 is here: http://www.artofthescore.com.au/podcast/2018/4/3/episode-15-the-force-awakens-part-1
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
Boston Pops Orchestra put out a CD called Lights, Camera...Music! Six Decades of John Williams which includes, among other things, a recording of the The Force Awakens Suite. In other words, it’s five “concert arrangements” of themes from TFA.

1. March of the Resistance
2. Rey’s Theme
3. Scherzo for X-Wings
4. The Jedi Steps
5. Finale

Now, some of these are on the TFA original soundtrack, but, #4 has been greatly expanded (which is wonderful, because this is a great theme that was too short before), and #5 has been somewhat expanded and tweaked, I think. More importantly, if you ever (like me) thought some of the TFA soundtrack was kind of catchy, but the overall soundtrack was rather hard to listen to (heavy? depressing?), CHECK THIS OUT. I don’t know if it’s the performance or the sound mix (I think a bit of both), but, tracks which I thought were just okay on the TFA soundtrack absolutely ROCK here. Overall, it’s 18 minutes of pure pleasure.

I listened to all of these through Amazon Prime. I found their version of March of the Resistance to be nearly identical to the Williams album version and it didn't do anything for me that the original version didn't already do so I skipped buying that one. But I bought the other four which were good and and seemed to be somewhat different than the original versions. Thanks for pointing these out to me.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool. Well I thought the March of the Resistance was much different—much faster and lighter—but, YMMV and all that.

While I’m including all things FTA, you should know that Disney also made available for download an alternate version of the album—the “For Your Consideration” (“FYC”) version. They did this for the various industry awards shows. Due to the rules of the Academy or whatever, it had to be only music actually featured in the film, so, basically this is the opposite of the concert suite.

01 The Attack on the Jakku Village Part 1 (5:27)
02 The Attack on the Jakku Village Part 2 (1:53)
03 The Scavenger (1:52)
04 Lunchtime (1:12)
05 I Can Fly Anything (4:09)
06 Finn’s Trek (1:35)
07 Follow Me and The Falcon (7:09)
08 The Rathtars (1:19)
09 Snoke (2:07)
10 You Got a Name? (1:32)
11 I’m No Hero (1:06)
12 The Starkiller (1:52)
13 Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle (2:15)
14 The Resistance (1:35)
15 The Abduction (1:35)
16 Finn and Poe, United (2:01)
17 The Bombing Run (2:07)
18 On the Inside (2:54)
19 Torn Apart (4:24)
20 The Ways of the Force (3:58)
21 The Journey Home (2:18)
22 Farewell and The Trip (3:49)
23 The Jedi Steps and Finale (9:58)
TOTAL TIME - 1:08:07

Again, Disney posted these for free download; I am not sharing anything illegal.

I like this version for two reasons—it has some full tracks that the OST doesn’t have — Finn's Trek, The Resistance (my favorite), The Bombing Run — and the audio mix is more pleasurable to listen to, to me. Lots more info here.


Last edited by Falconer on Wed May 16, 2018 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s also a “cantina song” called Jabba Flow which was written not by John Williams but by the composer of Hamilton.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
Cool. Well I thought the March of the Resistance was much different—much faster and lighter—but, YMMV and all that...

I'll give them both a listen again, back-to-back.

The TFA FYC was discussed on page 1 of this thread, and the RO FYC was mentioned on page 3. I enjoy them. I have the "Jabba Flow" track too but I don't remember if I ever mentioned here. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The TFA FYC was discussed on page 1 of this thread

Ah, right you are. Well, now we have permanent links. Smile

So here’s my current TFA playlist. I don’t like the OST, and as usual I like putting the concert suites first. So:

March of the Resistance – BSO
Rey’s Theme – BSO
Scherzo for X-Wings – BSO
The Jedi Steps (Suite) – BSO

[FULL FYC PROGRAMME]

Finale - BSO
New Han and Leia Theme - BSO


Last edited by Falconer on Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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