The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

The Force Awakens (original spoilers thread)
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> General Star Wars -> The Force Awakens (original spoilers thread) Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1256
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
At least Starkiller went big for its big increase in power over the Death Stars: the ability to destroy distant planets through hyperspace takes a weapon the size of an Earth-sized planet (much bigger than a small moon)...


True as Whill tells it, Starkiller Base is much bigger than the first Death Star , but it's not nearly the size of Earth. It's not even the size of the moon as the below image illustrates:

[img]https://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/starwarstech-01.jpg?w=800&h=484[/img]

Ugh, I hate images that don't display on this forum... Confused
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4777
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Whill wrote:
At least Starkiller went big for its big increase in power over the Death Stars: the ability to destroy distant planets through hyperspace takes a weapon the size of an Earth-sized planet (much bigger than a small moon)...

True as Whill tells it, Starkiller Base is much bigger than the first Death Star , but it's not nearly the size of Earth. It's not even the size of the moon as the below image illustrates...

OK, to be technically correct, I should have said an Earth-massed planet. Starkiller would have to be extremely more dense than Earth to be that size and still have near-Earth gravity. But then again, if they can build a superweapon out of a planet or moon, I guess it wouldn't be a stretch for the whole surface of planet to have artificially increased gravity (even out in the forest). Of course for it to be that small we have to ignore things like the view of the horizon making it seem like a Earth-sized planet, etc. Sadly that's a thing that's just ignored in some sci-fi: all planets of any size just happen to have gravity exactly like Earth's. It's obvious why all these planets have near-Earth gravity, but it's sad that they just make it have any random size that doesn't really jive with the mass that the planet must have to generate Earth gravity.

Sutehp wrote:
[img]https://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/starwarstech-01.jpg?w=800&h=484[/img]

Ugh, I hate images that don't display on this forum... Confused



I just had to remove the the width and height parameters to the right of the ".jpg" to get it to display. And by the way, this image is incorrect. DS I's diameter is 160km. DS II's diameter is 200km. The Starkiller's diameter is 660 km. FYI.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 07 Apr 2017
Posts: 1452

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya know, you've got to give Rey some credit. She's no pampered ingenue. She braves the desert creatures and predators, manages to not get killed by sinking in the sand, and crawls around derelict starships all day--which can't be healthy--then spends time scrubbing the few parts she finds (among some very impolite fellow scavengers, I must say), and what does she get for her all-day efforts? A single insta-muffin for dinner.

Then, she goes to sleep, gets up the next day, and does it all over again.

And, she does it alone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4777
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rey's not your average scavenger.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 07 Apr 2017
Posts: 1452

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Rey's not your average scavenger.


Nope. She's not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1256
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:


I just had to remove the the width and height parameters to the right of the ".jpg" to get it to display. And by the way, this image is incorrect. DS I's diameter is 160km. DS II's diameter is 200km. The Starkiller's diameter is 660 km. FYI.


Really? Huh, I thought 120km for the first Death Star was truly its diameter and the Death Star II was 160km. I had no idea they were in dispute. Well, not the first Death Star, anyway. I've seen fanmade scale photos claiming that the second Death Star was anything from 500 to 900 km across. I never gave those pics any credence.

And Starkiller Base is only 660km in diameter? Damn, I had no idea it was that small!

Whill, would you mind sourcing your measurements, please? I'm not disputing you, but I'd like to see them for myself.

And yes, Rey is definitely not your average scavenger. She's too cute to be average!

And didn't I read somewhere that Daisy Ridley can deadlift 90 kilos? Yeah, she ain't average neither!
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4350

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

80 kilos, actually. But still a lot more than what I could probably do without blowing a disk, wrecking a knee, and crying for my mommy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAtNwkhWkfc
_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4777
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Whill, would you mind sourcing your measurements, please? I'm not disputing you, but I'd like to see them for myself.

By default you should always consult Wookieepedia canon articles before asking this question. I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, but I would rate it in the 90s. If you see something there and think it is wrong, please bring it up and state why (and which sources contradict it).
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1256
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Whill, would you mind sourcing your measurements, please? I'm not disputing you, but I'd like to see them for myself.

By default you should always consult Wookieepedia canon articles before asking this question. I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, but I would rate it in the 90s. If you see something there and think it is wrong, please bring it up and state why (and which sources contradict it).


Yeah, I admit, I've been lazy about looking up Wookieepedia for my own questions. Which, I also admit, is really odd because whenever I'm doing research for my Womp Rat Press editing, Wookieepedia is always my first go-to source when I want to check something.

Do you think that sort of laziness reflects badly upon my character? Mr. Green
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4777
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Whill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Whill, would you mind sourcing your measurements, please? I'm not disputing you, but I'd like to see them for myself.

By default you should always consult Wookieepedia canon articles before asking this question. I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, but I would rate it in the 90s. If you see something there and think it is wrong, please bring it up and state why (and which sources contradict it).

Yeah, I admit, I've been lazy about looking up Wookieepedia for my own questions. Which, I also admit, is really odd because whenever I'm doing research for my Womp Rat Press editing, Wookieepedia is always my first go-to source when I want to check something.

Do you think that sort of laziness reflects badly upon my character? Mr. Green

To be fair, the Legends diameter of DS-1 has fluctuated over the years. But the canon diameter given in the Rogue One: The Ultimate Visual Guide is 160km. This image was obviously made in the canon era to even include the Starkiller base, so the image should have the canon sizes.

I feel 1200km is still way off for the Starkiller Planet. Starkiller appears to be a natural planet turned into a weapon. In the film it appears to have its own natural gravity which results in an atmosphere like Earth's with air pressure ranges like on Earth (capable of supporting humans and Wookiees). It appears to have its own weather systems and biosphere (with lots of trees anyway). That doesn't make sense with a tiny planet smaller than our moon. In my SWU, Starkiller is a near-Earth-sized planet.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1256
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I feel 1200km is still way off for the Starkiller Planet. Starkiller appears to be a natural planet turned into a weapon. In the film it appears to have its own natural gravity which results in an atmosphere like Earth's with air pressure ranges like on Earth (capable of supporting humans and Wookiees). It appears to have its own weather systems and biosphere (with lots of trees anyway). That doesn't make sense with a tiny planet smaller than our moon. In my SWU, Starkiller is a near-Earth-sized planet.


In hindsight, Starkiller Base having an oxygen atmosphere and a biosphere that includes trees (and whatever other lifeforms) does seem more than a bit silly if it's only a third the size of the Moon. I think I remember reading somewhere that at least one reason why the Moon doesn't have an atmosphere is that it's too small to have enough gravity to even hold an atmosphere (though I may be confusing that for something I read in the Star Trek II novelization about Regula, the planetoid that the Regula I space station was orbiting). So if the Moon is too small to hold an atmosphere, how could a planet one third its size hold an atmosphere?

When I first saw Starkiller Base in the theatre, the first thing I thought was "HOLY ****, DID THE FIRST ORDER ***ING TERRAFORM HALF THE ENTIRE ***ING EQUATOR OF AN ENTIRE EARTH-SIZED ***ING PLANET INCLUDING A GOOD CHUNK OF THE FRIGGIN' MANTLE??? HOW THE **** DID THEY DO THAT???" Yeah, I had to pick up my jaw from the floor when I saw that. I couldn't believe that the Empire had the resources to do that even though they owned the entire galaxy, yet the First Order was able pull it off with a fraction of the resources the Empire had. That failure of suspension of disbelief was another reason why I walked out of the theater disappointed in TFA.
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4350

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd thought about that. He does a lot where he suspends a person completely still. I'd say that using it on people alone can be a modification of Telekinesis, but it seems entirely practical to make that its own force power with TK as a prerequisite. Call it hold or rebuke or whatever you like. Using it on a blaster bolt is a leap beyond that. If someone wanted to use it in my game, I would say that they would have to spend a FP to use a force power beyond its designed rules (a la the rule in the TOTJC). IIRC that does not double your dice, but only allows you to make the stretch. Then I'd say that it would be the base difficulty of the power, modified by the roll of the opposing character's blaster roll.

The only reason to use the power like that would be ultimate showboating. Which is precisely what it was on screen.

Here's just a draft of what the power could look like:
Quote:

Hold
Control Difficulty: Very Easy, modified by proximity
Alter Difficulty: Target's control or Strength roll
Required Powers: life sense, telekinesis
This power may be kept up.
Effect: This power is used to telekinetically immobilize a target. The user makes his alter roll against the target’s control or Strength total. If the user succeeds, the target may not move except to speak, and may not use any Strength or Dexterity skills until free. If the power is kept up, the target may re-roll his or her control or Strength at the beginning of each round to break free.

_________________
__________________________________
Before we take any of this too seriously, just remember that in the middle episode a little rubber puppet moves a spaceship with his mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4777
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
I'd thought about that...Hold...

Cool, but I think I missed something. What is your post replying to?
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4777
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
In hindsight, Starkiller Base having an oxygen atmosphere and a biosphere that includes trees (and whatever other lifeforms) does seem more than a bit silly if it's only a third the size of the Moon... So if the Moon is too small to hold an atmosphere, how could a planet one third its size hold an atmosphere?

Exactly.

Sutehp wrote:
When I first saw Starkiller Base in the theatre, the first thing I thought was "HOLY ****, DID THE FIRST ORDER ***ING TERRAFORM HALF THE ENTIRE ***ING EQUATOR OF AN ENTIRE EARTH-SIZED ***ING PLANET INCLUDING A GOOD CHUNK OF THE FRIGGIN' MANTLE??? HOW THE **** DID THEY DO THAT???" Yeah, I had to pick up my jaw from the floor when I saw that. I couldn't believe that the Empire had the resources to do that even though they owned the entire galaxy, yet the First Order was able pull it off with a fraction of the resources the Empire had.

Oh I don't disagree. I wasn't at all trying to imply there was such a thing as a plausible Starkiller. But even with the ridiculousness of the whole concept, I still see no reason to pull some arbitrary number out of their @ss and state that is the (ridiculously small) diameter of the Starkiller planet. If it can't be a plausible weapon, at least make it a plausible planet!

As far as the resources and time needed to make a planet into a weapon capable of destroying entire star systems through hyperspace, we don't know that construction wasn't started before end of the Palpatinian Empire. The First Order could have been started in secret by Darth Plagueis decades earlier. It would probably make the most sense if the Starkiller was an ancient weapon existing for thousands of years. Maybe it fell out of repair or was never completed. Maybe the Sith order had control of it but were defeated 1,000 years before the films when they were decimated and went into hiding. Maybe Plagueis knew about it but never told Palpatine.

Sutehp wrote:
That failure of suspension of disbelief was another reason why I walked out of the theater disappointed in TFA.

I thought you liked TFA. Did it grow on you?
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RyanDarkstar
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 04 Dec 2014
Posts: 101
Location: Chambersburg, PA, USA, Earth

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched two videos on YouTube that theorizes Starkiller Base used to be the planet Ilum, where younglings would go to receive their first lightsaber crystal.

Star Wars Explained #1

Star Wars Explained #2

As the Empire took over the planet after the Clone Wars and began serious excavations of the Kyber crystals, huge chunks of the planet were removed, exposing rock and lava from the core. This could explain how the First Order with limited resources was able to quickly construct such a huge weapon.
_________________
Currently playing AD&D 5E, The Old Republic, Neverwinter and Star Trek Online.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> General Star Wars All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
Page 12 of 14

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0