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Suppressive Fire
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:17 pm    Post subject: Suppressive Fire Reply with quote

1. May only be used at close or medium range.
2. Full round action.
3. Covers a 3m area, each additional 1m area is a -5 skill modifier.
4. The skill roll total is the Willpower difficulty number the enemy must roll against. If successful they may act normally. Otherwise they perform all skill rolls at -2D (-8 static modifier). Those who roll a 1 on the Wild Die or roll a spectacular failure cannot move and are treated as surprised. All modifiers stay in effect until the end of the round.
5. Single shot weapons expend 10 rounds, repeating weapons expend 20 rounds.
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks interesting. I have similar system (although more complicated), but I like your idea of opposite rolls. Now I'm working on combining your system with mine Smile

Few notes - why limiting range? I think it should be possible to pin down opponent even at long range (although at raised difficulty).
How about possibility of being hit?
More lead (blaster gas) in air should raise both willpower roll difficulty and chance to hit, so there could be modifiers related to amount of shots fired.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wanted to keep this optional rule as crunch free as possible, though I also thought there should be a chance to hit. Why only at short and moderate range? I have never seen suppressive fire at longer range. It just doesn't seem to suppress, but has a chance to hit multiple targets which to me is bet emulated by making multiple shots. Perhaps:

1. Full round action.
2. Covers a 3m area, each additional 1m area is a -5 skill modifier.
3. The skill roll total is the Willpower difficulty number the enemy must roll against. If successful they may act normally. Otherwise they perform all skill rolls at -2D (-8 static modifier). Those who roll a 1 on the Wild Die or roll a spectacular failure cannot move and are treated as surprised. All modifiers stay in effect until the end of the round.
4. If the blaster skill roll is equal to higher than the range difficulty or dodge (where applicable) the character is hit and must make a soak roll vs energy. Roll damage +1D for every burst in effective area. Two people +2D, three people +3D, etc.
6. Single shot weapons expend 10 rounds, repeating weapons expend 20 rounds.

edit: Removed long range restriction and added mechanic for additional damage for someone hit within the effected area as well as multiple players bursting in effected area.
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Last edited by shootingwomprats on Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...

Something to keep in mind: suppression is always done for a reason. Usually to cover one's own movement or that of an ally. That movement is also usually intended to bring an end to the fight. The group suppressing is trying to close distance to destroy (or capture, etc) the enemy, or to escape the enemy.

Suppressing fire only works because of the lethality of the firepower. Proeer suppressing fire is an actual attempt to hit the target, with the knowledte that the target's cover (if propperly used) will protect it. Still: the objective is to shoot as close to the target as possible, and if he presents hismself, to shoot him.

Id also recommend allowing suppression at any range, provided that the weapon is accurate to that range. A real life heavy machine gun, for example, has a "normal" engagement range of out to 1000 meters, with reliable hits possible out to 1500 meters (and farther, for a skilled gunner).

Perhaps allow for repeaters to deliver suppression fire at longer distance.

Also consider raising the willpower dificulty based on the damage of the weapon. Troops in cover will see their cover degrade more quickly being shot by an E-WHB than by a blaster pistol, some of the heavy firepower will even penetrate the cover, increasing the risk to those suppressed.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Hmm...

Something to keep in mind: suppression is always done for a reason. Usually to cover one's own movement or that of an ally. That movement is also usually intended to bring an end to the fight. The group suppressing is trying to close distance to destroy (or capture, etc) the enemy, or to escape the enemy.

Suppressing fire only works because of the lethality of the firepower. Proeer suppressing fire is an actual attempt to hit the target, with the knowledte that the target's cover (if propperly used) will protect it. Still: the objective is to shoot as close to the target as possible, and if he presents hismself, to shoot him.

Id also recommend allowing suppression at any range, provided that the weapon is accurate to that range. A real life heavy machine gun, for example, has a "normal" engagement range of out to 1000 meters, with reliable hits possible out to 1500 meters (and farther, for a skilled gunner).

Perhaps allow for repeaters to deliver suppression fire at longer distance.

Also consider raising the willpower dificulty based on the damage of the weapon. Troops in cover will see their cover degrade more quickly being shot by an E-WHB than by a blaster pistol, some of the heavy firepower will even penetrate the cover, increasing the risk to those suppressed.


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OuttaWindu
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an thing I've been thinking about, but I'm not sure I agree with the willpower thing necessary, but it's nice thing to describe the stress for doing stuff under sire, but doesn't do anything for the likelihood of getting hurt.

If someone where to try to leave their cover while being targeted by suppressive fire, something like dodge vs. (suppressive fire roll divided by half, modified but amount of ammo used?). Of course this could only be done with repeating blaster or ranged weapons with ROF greater than 1.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not necessarily. Any weapon can be used to suppress. It would be more valuable to have two or three guys with rifles than to have one guy with a repeater.

Suppression is not about volume of firepower, but rather "communicating" to the enemy that "I know where you are and if you move, I will shoot you."

Suppression fire is well aimed, and those suppressing are looking for an opportunity to shoot those being suppressed (all while a separate element is maneuvering to engage the suppressed enemy's flank).

If there is no ability to close with and destroy the enemy, then suppression fire is a waste of ammo. The priority would be to break contact, or lie in wait for a target of opportunity.


Last edited by Naaman on Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Not necessarily. Any weapon canbe used to suppress. It would be more valuable to have two or three guys with rifles than to have one guy with a repeater.

Suppression is not about volume of firepower, but rather "communicating" to the enemy that "I know where you are and if you move, I will shoot you."

Suppression fire is well aimed, and those suppressing are looming for opportunity to shoot those being suppressed (all while a separet element is maneuvering to engage the suppressed enemy's flank).

If there is no ability to close with and destroy the enemy, thensuppressionfire is a waste of ammo. The priority would be to break contact, or lie in wait for a target of opportunity.


Exactly. Look at most cop films/war films. Baddies hiding behind cars/walls, pillars, and the cops consistently putting bullets into it (or near) to keep the baddies head down (or visa versa..)
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Not necessarily. Any weapon can be used to suppress. It would be more valuable to have two or three guys with rifles than to have one guy with a repeater.

Suppression is not about volume of firepower, but rather "communicating" to the enemy that "I know where you are and if you move, I will shoot you."



Indeed. Referring to d20 rules you can suppress the enemy with any ranged weapon by targeting his general surroundings (not the enemy specifically). If succeed with the attack, you imply penalty to his attacks. There is an advanced version of this attack, which results in a higher penalty to the suppressed target.

This is different from area attack made by autofire weapons where you spray lasers over certain area in order to hit multiple targets.
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yomama360
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea from another game (Twilight 2000 v.2.0). When you make an autofire attack on an area, all bullets fired have the potential to hit any exposed target. And then half those that missed will attack anything still in the area or targets moving through the area for the next round. This discourages people from running through areas being saturated with bullets even though its a turn-based game.

I like that you make it so people have to roll willpower (or something) to see if they can function while being suppressed, but as others have mentioned there should be the potential of getting hit if you break cover, or move through the area in question.

In SW terms you might want to do something like this: take a pool of the shots fired (2/3s 1/2, whatever) and these bullets basically make "attacks of opportunity" to anyone who passes through the area or exposes themselves for the next round.

You can even disassociate the bullets from the shooters skill. In Twilight 2000, you roll a d6 for each bullet. All 6s are a hit. Half those that missed can be rolled again for a secondary target. Half those that missed then can be used for a tertiary target, etc...
This would reduce die rolls and simplify the attack resolution. Maybe declare them as "potential hits" on a 5 or 6, then make the target roll dodge vs. a set difficulty like 15 to dodge it.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on what you mean when you say "suppress." Saturating an area with bullets may indeed have a "suppressive" effect, but its also true that unless the shots are aimed, they are almost certainly not going to hit what you want, even if that target is out in the open.

In other words, its the "willpower" thing that the OP references. But, even in situations where the target is forced or compelled to be exposed, the "spray and pray" technique has a very low probability of even hitting any part of 4 Humvees (for example).

If you want to use the spray and pray, then, you are correct: skill is irrelevant. Just create a rule that randomly applies a hit based on the volume of fire.

If you want to properly suppress, then a person who breaks cover foolishly is almost certain to be shot immediately. This could be handled differently depending on whether the shooter is part of a group using combined fire rules.
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a mechanical solution to add just yet (though this thread has started my mind thinking on it), but I'd like to vote against the "attack of opportunity" theory by pointing out how much the droids didn't get shot at the begining of A New Hope..
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that scene gets way too much credit as a reference on the effectiveness of some kind of battle tactic or reference for some kind of "real life" example of what a fire fight looks like.

I have always interpreted that scene as a little joke. Am I alone, here?


That being said, there is a concept in close quarters battle called the fatal funnel. While I won't dissect the nuances of it, the basic idea is that when you are in a narrow corridor or frame, you are much easier to hit than when you are "out in the open."

Conversely, as I said above, if you do not deliberately "aim" (I use the word loosely) at your intended target, your chances of hitting that target are very small.

One way to handle it would to be to allow the shooter to say something like, "I delay my action until I see a valid target. In the meantime, I will 'suppress' the area that the target is known to be)." So the GM can say, roll 2D6 (or 3D6 or whatever). Player rolls 9. GM instructs the player to scratch 9 rounds of ammo off of his chart. On the target's turn, the GM decides what the NPC will do. If he breaks cover, the player's action is triggered and he gets to shoot. If he stays in cover, the player does not get a turn, but he has effectively pinned down that enemy while his allies maneuver toward the objective.
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I think that scene gets way too much credit as a reference on the effectiveness of some kind of battle tactic or reference for some kind of "real life" example of what a fire fight looks like.

I have always interpreted that scene as a little joke. Am I alone, here?


That being said, there is a concept in close quarters battle called the fatal funnel. While I won't dissect the nuances of it, the basic idea is that when you are in a narrow corridor or frame, you are much easier to hit than when you are "out in the open."

Conversely, as I said above, if you do not deliberately "aim" (I use the word loosely) at your intended target, your chances of hitting that target are very small.


I agree largely.. but this is high adventure cinema.. while it almost certainly was meant as a joke, it's clear that the intent of star wars is that heroes don't die accidentally.

I'm leaning towards making supressing fire a nonverbal use of the command skill actually. This would allow the average mook to be cowed easily by such tactics, but not a hero or main villain.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm.... there seems to be a misunderstanding on what suppressive fire actually is. The goal of suppressive fire is to destroy the enemy, not merely to intimidate him. If the enemy cannot be destroyed, then breaking contact should be the top priority (unless the PCs are tactical neanderthals).

PCs have an unusually high chance of survival due to having a dodge skill that tends to be higher than the blaster skill of the mooks. They also have character points and force points.

Also, what we see in ANH isnt actually suppressive fire, FWIW. But rather, it seems that everyone in SW except for Jango (and perhaps Obi Wan, ironically) sucks at shooting. Razz
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