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Star Galleon's Detachable Cargo Bay
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:44 pm    Post subject: Star Galleon's Detachable Cargo Bay Reply with quote

As part of a larger stat project, I'm looking to make stats for this and tack them onto the existing stats for the Star Galleon. The primary reference is in The Far Orbit Project, which states the following:
    -When activated, the hull of the Star Galleon splits down the long axis and pre-placed explosive charges blow clear of the cargo bay.

    -The cargo bay requires one round to clear the wreckage, and then immediately jumps to hyperspace (no Astrogation roll required).

    -The cargo bay is equipped with a hypertransceiver that allows Imperial forces to track it through hyperspace. It jumps to a random location and holds position for a short time before jumping out again (the time between jumps is randomized and not known to the characters, although Imperial forces are likely to be aware).

    -Picking up the pod's homing signal requires a Very Difficult Communications roll. Tracking the pod to its destination requires Difficult Sensors, Communications and Astrogation rolls.

    -The pod can be slaved to another ship (the characters') if they know the appropriate code (which they are not likely to). Alternately, the code can be sliced (Very Difficult Computer Programming roll requiring 6 hours, which can be reduced by 1 hour per +10 Difficulty).

    -Actually opening the cargo pod requires Very Difficult Computer Programming and Security rolls. Failure activates any one of a number of traps, including:
      Fragmentation Explosives (6D Damage, plus space suit breach)
      High Voltage Trapped Locks (5D Damage)
      Automated Anti-Personnel Blasters (FC 4D, Damage 4D)
What The Far Orbit Project doesn't provide is any information about the stats, and there isn't a whole lot else to go on. Cargo capacity is a gimme (100,000 metric tons), and it has to have a hyperdrive, but does it have a subspace drive? If so, is it fast or slow? How maneuverable is it? What's the skill of the droid AI operating it? Hull rating?

I have some ideas, but I'd like some opinions before I put anything in writing...
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suspect that it doesn't have any kind of sublight drive. The idea is to preserve the cargo from capture (hence random jumps). They would be wasting quite a few extra resources in turning it into a ship rather than a cargo module.

Reasons behind this perspective:
1. cargo bay is blown into space/clears wreckage: if it had sublight capability of any kind, a quick blast to pop the doors and it should be able to escape rather than jumping.

2. random jumping: if there were ship-type features, why would it randomly jump, why not take 2-3 rounds and locate the nearest imperial location and deliver itself to them? As it is, it could jump into an imperial-held system... and then leave before being retrieved if the in-system units were unable to arrive in time.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I left out was that, to clear the debris from the Galleon, the pod had to fire up its maneuvering thrusters. To me, that implies that it has at least some sort of sublight drive.

And I doubt it is making jumps in the same league as starships do for interstellar travel. I'd expect jumps of no more than a few light minutes. The idea is to make the cargo bay difficult to track by attackers, but to stay within the same general area so as to make it easier for the Empire to recover it.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Jar-Jar Deb Kaadeb
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What pages is this on? Too lazy to go hunting atm.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JironGhrad wrote:
What pages is this on? Too lazy to go hunting atm.

163-164 of The Far Orbit Project.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Thx1138
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to assume it has to have a sublight. If my understandings are correct, hyperdrives are in reality a generator that requires a sublight drive to work. Case in point, in TPM when the royal cruiser was stuck on tatooine, they only had to get a hyperdrive generator, not engines. Also since hyperdrives aren't shown as engines they have to make use of some sort of engine system. Keep in mind also that when ever the hyperdrives of ships breakdown they never say anything about engines, only the generators or motivators. Also since the pod can be slaved I would have to think some sort of sublight engine is attached to feed info to.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
JironGhrad wrote:
What pages is this on? Too lazy to go hunting atm.

163-164 of The Far Orbit Project.


Thanks. After reading, I stand by my original assessment that the ship does not have a sublight drive unit. It has maneuvering thrusters, sufficient to eject from the carrying ship and to turn itself to the correct orientation for jump to lightspeed.

@THX1138: Hyperdrives don't really require a sublight engine to function. In ESB, as the Falcon is escaping from Bespin, Vader says, "Are you sure that your men disabled the hyperdrive motivator on the MF?" Clearly, the hyperdrive didn't utilize the sublight engines or they would likely have been affected as well.

Likewise, the text of the paragraph regarding slaving states only that it can be slaved for hyperspace jumping, and that the pod could be towed using tractor beams. That context implies, non-existent sublight transport capabilities.
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Thx1138
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it is true you can disable or damage hyperdrive components, the hyperdrive is not used constantly like sublight engines. I would think that in order to save on both space and cost on producing ships, you would have to lump things together. Also if this is correct, the hyperdrive has a very little influence on the engines. Also keep in mind hyperdrive would be a lot like putting nitrous oxide into a engine. It allows you to go faster by using existing equipment.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx1138 wrote:
While it is true you can disable or damage hyperdrive components, the hyperdrive is not used constantly like sublight engines. I would think that in order to save on both space and cost on producing ships, you would have to lump things together. Also if this is correct, the hyperdrive has a very little influence on the engines. Also keep in mind hyperdrive would be a lot like putting nitrous oxide into a engine. It allows you to go faster by using existing equipment.


I don't believe that's correct. I recall reading (but don't remember off-hand in which book now) of a situation where a ship was disabled in real space, but was able to hyper jump anyway. I'm firmly convinced that the two components are completely separate systems. I also recall, that it's pretty well firmly established that ships while in hyper are not moving in real space.
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Thx1138
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If my understanding of the realm of hyperspace is correct, it is really a condensed version of the universe allowing for faster travel. This would account for the mass shadows of objects in real space affecting objects in hyperspace. So if this theory is correct, travel through hyperspace is the same as travel through real space except in a dimension that is condensed to allow for faster travel.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx1138 wrote:
If my understanding of the realm of hyperspace is correct, it is really a condensed version of the universe allowing for faster travel. This would account for the mass shadows of objects in real space affecting objects in hyperspace. So if this theory is correct, travel through hyperspace is the same as travel through real space except in a dimension that is condensed to allow for faster travel.


There was some discussion on that question here which leads into the next part of my dissent with regards to your explanation. IF you were correct, Han could not have jumped the Falcon out of the starship in TFA. If only condensed and not a different phase entirely, he would have collided with the external hull of the freighter and crashed.
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Thx1138
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That whole scene was a little off. For one thing, the falcons hyperdrive should have registered the baleen transport as a mass shadow given that it has been inferred that decent sized asteroids could prevent a jump to hyperspace and since we don't know the lower limits of mass shadows it's impossible to tell. but if we take that scene as fact it is possible that ships have equipment in them in order to prevent changes in mass and density while in hyperspace which could be used to create a hyperspace free bubble to allow for a jump through the hanger exit.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx1138 wrote:
That whole scene was a little off. For one thing, the falcons hyperdrive should have registered the baleen transport as a mass shadow given that it has been inferred that decent sized asteroids could prevent a jump to hyperspace and since we don't know the lower limits of mass shadows it's impossible to tell. but if we take that scene as fact it is possible that ships have equipment in them in order to prevent changes in mass and density while in hyperspace which could be used to create a hyperspace free bubble to allow for a jump through the hanger exit.


It was discussed before too... the idea was that the hyperdrives have safety interlocks in place to avoid accidentally killing yourself. Disengaging them would allow the attempt to take place. Though to go back to the original point... the operative points are in the nature of the devices... a hyperdrive moves a ship through hyperspace; a hypertether or hyper field generator allows entry to hyperspace in a fixed location. I would also infer that a hyperdrive is capable of station-keeping in hyperspace.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx1138 wrote:
That whole scene was a little off. For one thing, the falcons hyperdrive should have registered the baleen transport as a mass shadow given that it has been inferred that decent sized asteroids could prevent a jump to hyperspace and since we don't know the lower limits of mass shadows it's impossible to tell. but if we take that scene as fact it is possible that ships have equipment in them in order to prevent changes in mass and density while in hyperspace which could be used to create a hyperspace free bubble to allow for a jump through the hanger exit.

It's important to note that the hyperdrive cut-out only engages in the presence of a gravity field of sufficient strength. Even in deep space, there will still be a tiny amount of gravity from stars light-years distant, and even from the galaxy itself.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Thx1138
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been busy with school but I was able to dig up my copy of the Far Orbit project with my free time. So on page 163 of the FOP, we see a picture of a damaged star galleon apparently ejecting its cargo pod. It is apparent in the picture that the pod does have some form of sublight drives because the visible thrust component can be seen coming from the rear of the pod. It also says on said page that the pod fires its thrusters and builds speed to clear the debris field in one round. If it was just equipped with maneuvering thrusters it would be unable to clear a debris field in one round, that would be to fast in my opinion. Also maneuvering thrusters would not just be focused in the rear of a small vessel like that, think of the space shuttles, they had maneuvering thrusters in the front and rear of them. Also this design is a lot like the covert shroud, the "Destruction" of the host vessel is used to distract the enemy while the smaller one escapes. With the size of the Star Galleon put into perspective, they would need some sublight engines to clear the debris field in one round in order to make the jump.
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