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MrNexx
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 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:42 am Post subject: Inverting the Severe Injuries rules |
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Would you, as a GM, routinely allow the inverting of the severe injuries rule? For example, if someone was to get outright killed by an attack, would you allow them to choose to instead be severely injured (arm off, hand crushed, whatever)? Able to come back in a later session, but not dead dead?
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: |
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There is a force power that does this. If I were to allow it for all characters, I would impose heavy stipulations.
Using the reduce injury and transfer force force powers as a guide, for a character to be able to do this by "mundane" means, I might do something like the following:
The character immediately loses all remaining force points and character points and suffers a permanent injury losing a pip in each of his attributes. For each force point lost, the character negates the loss of one of the pips (all the way down to zero, if he had at least 6 force points at the time of the lethal wound). A character with no force points cannot use this option.
That's my $0.02. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Inverting the Severe Injuries rules |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Would you, as a GM, routinely allow the inverting of the severe injuries rule? For example, if someone was to get outright killed by an attack, would you allow them to choose to instead be severely injured (arm off, hand crushed, whatever)? Able to come back in a later session, but not dead dead? |
Nope. the choice is only with the person causing the wound, and even then its ONLY an option, not something always taken.
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Inverting the Severe Injuries rules |
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| garhkal wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | Would you, as a GM, routinely allow the inverting of the severe injuries rule? For example, if someone was to get outright killed by an attack, would you allow them to choose to instead be severely injured (arm off, hand crushed, whatever)? Able to come back in a later session, but not dead dead? |
Nope. the choice is only with the person causing the wound, and even then its ONLY an option, not something always taken. |
I have to concur with my fave evil GM - A player shouldn't be able to just choose for his PC to not be killed by a deathblow. Unless the player wants to make a new character, any player would choose to be maimed over being killed because players don't feel their character's pain and suffering, and cyborgs are cool. Of course the GM can use the normal rule to contrive a reason that the NPC would want the PC to live, but that would be up to the GM, not the player. Even garhkal does that. I witnessed it in an adventure where an Imperial Royal Guard only cut off a leg of cynanbloodbane's character last summer.
I'll also oppose my fave evil GM by adding that fudging is also within the realm of the GM for saving PCs that were game mechanically dealt a deathblow and the NPC wouldn't have any reason to maim the PC. But its ONLY an option, not something always taken.
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Last edited by Whill on Sun May 01, 2016 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. Certain baddies are so highly skilled (Royal guardsmen) that nearly always they will take that option, to SHOW their foes that "You don't mess with me as i am too skilled for you"... While others, its rare they would ever do so.
And some monsters i have ran Never take it.. Why maim what's going to be your meal!
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Inverting the Severe Injuries rules |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Would you, as a GM, routinely allow the inverting of the severe injuries rule? For example, if someone was to get outright killed by an attack, would you allow them to choose to instead be severely injured (arm off, hand crushed, whatever)? Able to come back in a later session, but not dead dead? |
This is interesting as something like this just came up a week ago in my game. Keep in mind, in the past I have always been, "hey its the roll, guess you shoulda ducked ya putz!" But since then I have changed my GM style for Star Wars to be more pulpy and heroic.
So last week at the climax of the adventure the characters made some, what I felt, were some rather silly decisions on how to get the group of pirates from breaking into their ship with detonite.
One of the players gunned the repulsorlift truck in an attempt to run over a group of pirates, they were broken into three groups (2 in front of the ship, 5 towards the back cargo hatch and three at the other side of the ship at the other cargo hatch.
He swerved as not to hit the first group of two then gunned it for the five. They were surprised but with the scale difference and poor roll by the player a couple ended up on the ground but all of them go away from being hit.
The player continued you around the back end of the ship saw the other three and made a HARD curve (like a 90 degree turn). I made him roll his repuslor ops vs an increased difficulty (gave a +10 for the maneuver) which he failed miserably causing it to crash.
Looking up the rules I see he is going to take 12D in damage from speed, scale and so on. He rolls his Strength 3D +3 from armored flight suit. The difference is in excess of 25, so pretty much dead, dead, and dead again.
He didn't have any Character Points left but he did have a Force Point. I told him to spend the Force Point, which he does not get back, but has to be earned now as it was for a selfish reason he used it. I then narrated how the repulsor truck spun out of control, buried its nose in the ground, cartwheeling through the air several times, taking out the three pirates, dust and dirt flying everywhere, he hears the crunch of glass, tearing of metal, a hard punch to his chest and head then blackness.
One of the group digs him out and stabilizes and gets him aboard the ship. I explain to him his character now has some type of permanent injury and possible mental trauma. He did not have to tell me what that was but to give it some thought. Otherwise he could retired the character and make a new one.
He approached me this weekend and told he had lost an arm, part of his chest and a number of head tentacles (he is playing a Nautolon). Furthermore he has now has survivors remorse. Whenever he is placed in a stressful situation he must make a Moderate willpower roll. It successful he may perform his actions normally. If he fails he has visions of people, ringed in fire, disparaging him. These are the people from the slaver camp he could have saved. He is unable to perform any skills, and may roll again at the beginning of the next round.
So, yes, I am allowing players to live when they should be dead, but it does have some requirements (spend a Force Point) and conditions (all Character Points are spent) and in the end they will survive with some pretty awesome disabilities.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Nice one harry!!
Though 12d?? Where were you getting that value from?
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Though 12d?? Where were you getting that value from? |
2E R&E p.112 Vehicle chapter. The vehicle took so much damage it was destroyed, "Passenger Damage", second column, middle ... "Vehicle is Destroyed: Passenger Suffers 12D." I know surprised the hell out of me too!
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yeouch. i thought the 12d was a mix of crash damage and others.. not just the vehicle going boom.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Yeouch. i thought the 12d was a mix of crash damage and others.. not just the vehicle going boom. |
Upon reviewing the Youtube footage I remembered it incorrectly, I missed one thing.
1. Varul drove the repulsor truck and attempted to hit the group of five pirates. He missed them, but 2-3 ended up prone from diving out of the way.
2. Varul attempted to make a 90-degree turn to hit the other group of three pirates. He failed the roll, but not enough to lose control, he just couldn't make that tight of a turn. Half distance, -1D rest of this round and next, doesn't really matter.
3. Three of the pirates he originally tried to run over act last in the round and fire at the repulsor truck. Two hit, but one of those two rolled crazy high (thanks Wild Die), the character rolls the 2D body and +2 scale modifier, the difference was 17-18 I think. Checking the chart that enough damage to destroy the vehicle.
4. I ask him to make a soak roll and if he has any Character Points, he does not, I tell him to spend his only Force Point. Double his Strength but the exploding vehicle is 12D and the difference is still something like 25-28, waaaaay over 16+ dead.
5. As he had already spent his Character Points and used his Force Point I decided the scene should be epic and the character survive but have lasting physical or mental trauma from the crash.
6. I narrated the back half of the repulsorlift exploding from pirate's blaster fire after he tried running them down, shooting at the vehicle as it whizzes by, taking a hard turn but not being able to manage it, lining up as best he can on the second group of pirated. The back end pops up from the explosion, flipping it on its side, cartwheels two more times, spins, taking out the group of three pirates, landing on its top amid a giant dirt cloud. He hears breaking glass, things appear to spin, looking up he sees the ground rushing up towards the him, he feels pressure then blackness.
7. One of the other players seeing this, runs over, stabilizes him, but can tell he needs professional treatment or he will die. Wrestling him aboard the ship they blast off, pirate frigate in pursuit.
8. The ships fire back and forth, the pirate captain promising bloody revenge and retribution over the communications as the ship jumps to hyperspace.
When it was all over and done I told the player he would need to come up with some type of lasting deficit for his character or if he wanted to, the character would die a hero, of sorts, and he could make a new character.
There, I think that covers what happened.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Inverting the Severe Injuries rules |
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| Whill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | Would you, as a GM, routinely allow the inverting of the severe injuries rule? For example, if someone was to get outright killed by an attack, would you allow them to choose to instead be severely injured (arm off, hand crushed, whatever)? Able to come back in a later session, but not dead dead? |
Nope. the choice is only with the person causing the wound, and even then its ONLY an option, not something always taken. |
I have to concur with my fave evil GM - A player shouldn't be able to just choose for his PC to not be killed by a deathblow. Unless the player wants to make a new character, any player would choose to be maimed over being killed because players don't feel their character's pain and suffering, and cyborgs are cool. Of course the GM can use the normal rule to contrive a reason that the NPC would want the PC to live, but that would be up to the GM, not the player. Even garhkal does that. I witnessed it in an adventure where an Imperial Royal Guard only cut off a leg of cynanbloodbane's character last summer.
I'll also oppose my fave evil GM by adding that fudging is also within the realm of the GM for saving PCs that were game mechanically dealt a deathblow and the NPC wouldn't have any reason to maim the PC. But its ONLY an option, not something always taken. |
Actually, I once had a character that I was heavily invested in hand her leg got blown off. I was on the brink of just quitting the whole campaign since prosthetically augmenting that character was so unappealing of an idea to me that it sucked all the fun out the whole thing. It wasn't "my" character anymore... the concept had been modified so far beyond what I wanted to play that I just lost interest.
I would have gladly taken a head wound/permanent amnesia/a scar that made the character instantly recognizable to enemies, etc that have a super robotic ultra kicking kungfu leg. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:01 am Post subject: |
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I've met several other players like that Namman. Heck one was so damn andement about NOT getting scarred, he flat out shouted to one DM at a convention several years back (08 iirc)< go ahead and F9=(#(@*$ kill me, i will be damned if i am taking a maim!
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Volar the Healer
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:39 am Post subject: |
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If I (as director) like the character, yes. Especially if the character showed mercy to enemies. What goes around comes around. But, it would be at my discretion, not the players. As my dice are rolled behind the screen, this would be easy for me.
If a player wished to use this rule he would have to have the force power.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps I misunderstood the question. Would I allow a maiming or debilitating injury to a character? Yes I would, but only for a couple of reason: 1. person was being a dumb@ss and the rolls were against him, 2 if it serves to increase the drama of the scene/story, and 3. if it makes sense.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Perhaps I misunderstood the question. Would I allow a maiming or debilitating injury to a character? |
Not simply allow, but specifically allow the player to make the choice to choose maiming or debilitating injury over death.
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