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Armor Proficiency?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be overthinking this. What is the RAW range of armor Dex penalties? Are they all no penalty or -1D? No -1 or -2? Nothing worse than -1D?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I may be overthinking this. What is the RAW range of armor Dex penalties? Are they all no penalty or -1D? No -1 or -2? Nothing worse than -1D?

Some of the power armor suits had Dex penalties in the -2D/3D range...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I may be overthinking this. What is the RAW range of armor Dex penalties? Are they all no penalty or -1D? No -1 or -2? Nothing worse than -1D?


Well, going by the complete Gry's Equipment book, where all the armor is collected in, i see;
Protective vests - The only one that has a dex penalty is the Massassi chest shield (from the dark side sourcebook) of -1. No others have one.
None of the 2 helmets (or the one set of foot wear under armor accessories) have one.

For cammo armor, only the THeromguard jumpsuit has one of -1 (though it comes from a gamer magazine).

For Enviro/scout/sea suits - The a-5 envirosuit (Goroth slaves of the empire) has a -1d dex penalty. The Seascape diving suit says "only reduces dex on land" but lists nothing (comes from gundarks). The Skakoan pressure suits have 3 grades (light/medium/heavy) with a no penalty/-1 penalty/-1d penalty. And the Varge corp polarizing field insulator suit (converted from d20's arms and equipment guide) has a -2d dex penalty.

Then we get into space suits - the Lifeline model 11 space suit has a -2d dex penalty. The Bulk exploratory armor suit has a -1d penalty, so does the "Typical space suit". THough the Corellian tech armored vac suit does not.

So they are all over the place. And i've not even gotten into power suits, or the other military armor suits.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:09 am    Post subject: (A) Armor Proficiency Reply with quote

Mechanically, I've decided to go the advanced skill route: Armor Proficiency. This is not a commonly known skill outside of clone troopers and stormtroopers, but it is possible for other characters to have it if it makes sense with their background. Armor culture Mandalorians would be a possibility.

The WEG suggestion of veteran troopers having so much experience that they no longer have the Dex penalty makes sense but in my SWU, stormtroopers start training as children so even noob troopers should have some degree of this ability. Armor Proficiency is something that takes years to gain at 1D. Then almost no one in the galaxy has more than 1D in the base skill, but there are skill specializations for specific suits of armor.

For each 1D in skill, that removes 1 pip of Dex penalty. The general skill would allow a trooper to remove 1 pip of Dex penalty for any suit of armor, but any additional pips could only be removed with specialization dice for that specific suit of armor. The specializations apply to all aspects of that suit of armor. Here's what it would look like for a regular stormtrooper:

(A) Armor Proficiency 1D
(A) Armor Proficiency: Standard Stormtrooper 2D

I'm also restatting stormtroopers and their armors (standard and all the specialized troopers I have in my game) and I broke each suit down by three components: body glove, armor plating and helmet. Each component has its individual bonuses to physical and energy damage plus Dex penalties, so I can have stats for wearing any combination of individual components (except armor plating cannot be worn without the body glove). Altogether standard stormtrooper armor has a Dex penalty of -1D, but a standard stormtrooper has an effective Dex penalty of -1 (I do equate 1D to 3 pips for this purpose).

Since a lower Dex penalty means higher effective Dex skills, I think a bit of a reduction in blaster skill from RAW is in order for base stormtroopers to better reflect the films. Veteran standard stormtroopers may have the Armor skill specialization at 3D and thus remove all of the Dex penalty. Scout trooper armor has a -2 Dex penalty, but base scout troopers have 2D in that specialized armor and thus eliminate the Dex penalty.

Prerequisites for Armor Proficiency are minimal levels of Dexterity, Mechanical, lifting, stamina, and Technical. Armor Proficiency can add to armor repair rolls (specializations only for that suit), and any other rolls to operate systems of the suit of armor such as the sensors or communications (for non-mundane situations where rolls are even required).
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Last edited by Whill on Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds nice. If it's an advanced skill, is there a Credit cost associated with it, ike when someone learns (A) Engineering or medicine??
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: (A) Armor Proficiency Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Sounds nice. If it's an advanced skill, is there a Credit cost associated with it, ike when someone learns (A) Engineering or medicine??

Thanks. I'm not seeing the credit cost for learning advanced skills in RAW. Is that a Sparks rule? It's quite reasonable that there should be a credit cost, but R&E p.35 just gives the CP cost and training times. Although there is not a default cost, a GM could have a trainer charge whatever cost he wanted for the training, but there is the 'no trainer' option in RAW. IMO the training times in RAW to get the first 1D are ridiculously short (2-4 weeks) for some advanced skills. In my game, a character who didn't start with engineering and medicine skills would probably have to go to college and get engineering or medicine degrees to get those advanced skills, which would of course have a big cost and a lot of training time, and thus be outside the scope of most of my campaigns. But that wouldn't necessarily apply to all advanced skills.

In my mind the base (A) Armor Proficiency skill takes years to "learn" in a dedicated training program wearing multiple training armors, so it would not conform to RAW's normal advanced skill acquisition rules. The benefit of armor increasing strength to resist damage rolls is a powerful benefit game mechanically, so the Dex penalty is a reasonable downside. Overcoming the Dex penalty is a powerful benefit because it increases all effective Dex skills. It shouldn't come easily.

I run Rebel SpecOps and Smuggler campaigns. In my game, players find that they can't just wear armor all the time like normal clothing. Some planets may not allow certain kinds of armor without a special license. I'm lenient on PCs wearing the R&E blast vest (my version provides +1 energy and only +2 physical) but most other armor, including helmets, would be out of place in a lot of situations. PCs of the right shape and size can fairly easily get away with wearing the stormtrooper body gloves under their clothes, but it is still technically illegal in the Empire. Blast vests and stormtrooper body gloves have no Dex penalty. In my game, the emphasis has always been on not being hit in the first place rather than reducing damage when hit. The Dodge skill (which I call Agility) is much more important, and wearing most kinds of armor reduce dodging and all other Dex rolls. It's not a good trade-off. Most PCs are not going to have the (A) Armor Proficiency skill.

My bottom line in re-imaging stormtroopers is to make them all make more sense in general game mechanics and with respect to the films. (A) Armor Proficiency helps with that. Receiving armor training since childhood means they are less impacted by wearing armor then other characters who put on the armor are. Standard stormtrooper armor is -1D to Dex for the untrained like in RAW, but Scout armor is -2 to Dex for the untrained in my game.
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Last edited by Whill on Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: (A) Armor Proficiency Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Sounds nice. If it's an advanced skill, is there a Credit cost associated with it, ike when someone learns (A) Engineering or medicine??

Thanks. I'm not seeing the credit cost for learning advanced skills in RAW. Is that a Sparks rule? It's quite reasonable that there should be a credit cost, but R&E p.35 just gives the CP cost and training times..


It must be only a sparks specific rule. Even the hideouts and strongholds guide which has more (A) skills listed, doesn't mention anything. Usually though i've also seen other groups who had it as a HR, that learning an advanced skill had a credit cost.. 5 to 8k mostly. Medicine was 6k, where cybernetics was 8k.
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