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Using the force: for jedi masters only?
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scott2978
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:51 pm    Post subject: Using the force: for jedi masters only? Reply with quote

I recently had a discussion with one of my RPG friends about how using the force works in D6. His argument was that only the masterful force users have any real chance of using the force to do anything significant. He sighted that most force powers have a difficulty that you can't make with one or two dice reliably, and the templates in the main rulebook only have one die in any force skill. Without a trainer (we're playing in the rebellion era) your force skills advance so slowly that it's just not feasible to even play a force using character unless you start out as a full-fledged jedi. I've never allowed jedi characters in my games before because I always thought they would be unbalancing, but maybe it's the other way around?

Any advice on the subject?
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Error
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Jedi with a combined total of 15 or more dice in his force skills could probably school just about any other type of character.

If you feel your players advance too slowly, give them extra CP.
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I always tell my players..."How many Jedi did you see running around during the time of the Empire?" In other words, don't take pity on your players if you're playing during the Rebellion Era. Force users are supposed to have a tough time of it during that time period. If they want to play Jedi, play either during the time of the Republic, or during the time of the New Republic when Luke's getting the Jedi back on their feet.

Also, don't give out extra CPs just to Force Users. That's unfair for the others that aren't playing Force Users. Given time, which is what they have to contend with, they will excel and be able to do things that regular character won't be able to. It's up to the player to keep the character alive long enough by being a good player so that when they finally have all of the super cool abilities, they're not cocky and think they can "do it all". Automatically giving players a full fledged Jedi, especially during the Rebellion era, is a sure fire way of getting a player that feels they can take on anything as long as they have a lightsaber. They get cocky, they feel like they're better than everyone, and they whine when things don't go their way. That kind of mentality might work during the Republic, leading up to the downfall of the Jedi, but not during the time when the very few remaining Jedi should be keeping a super low profile to avoid being hunted and killed.

The main thing is just to get the idea into your player's heads that Jedi during the Rebellion are extremely few and very far between. Those that are experienced are wise enough to not use the Force to avoid being sensed and hunted. Those that aren't have used the Force once too many times, gained the attention of the Empire, and have perished. Only those that have discovered the intricacies of the Force and are brand new at it would have any chance of using it, learning it, gaining in power, and dealing with the reprecussions of doing so during the time of the Empire.
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Error
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I feel that Jedi characters during (not after, mind you) the Rebellion should not be played whatsoever. Come up with whatever storyline you want, but as far as the movies were concerned, Yoda and Obi-wan were the only ones left.

"When gone I am, the last of the Jedi will you be."
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MA-3PO
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
Personally, I feel that Jedi characters during (not after, mind you) the Rebellion should not be played whatsoever. Come up with whatever storyline you want, but as far as the movies were concerned, Yoda and Obi-wan were the only ones left.

"When gone I am, the last of the Jedi will you be."


True, but that doesn't mean you can't have the rare Dark side marauder or force adept roaming around. All force users don't have to be Jedi. In fact even during the Old Republic a majority of the beings in the galaxy had not even heard of the Jedi.
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Error
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MA-3PO wrote:
Error wrote:
Personally, I feel that Jedi characters during (not after, mind you) the Rebellion should not be played whatsoever. Come up with whatever storyline you want, but as far as the movies were concerned, Yoda and Obi-wan were the only ones left.

"When gone I am, the last of the Jedi will you be."


True, but that doesn't mean you can't have the rare Dark side marauder or force adept roaming around. All force users don't have to be Jedi. In fact even during the Old Republic a majority of the beings in the galaxy had not even heard of the Jedi.

I see your point, but I'm talking specifically about the Jedi order, not the various force-sensitives and alternate users throughout the galaxy.

The Jedi and the Sith are two paths to the power of the force, I am certain there are many more.

However, I do not believe it is "improper" to play a character like Mara Jade; someone who is aware of and using the force to some degree. But the robes and the lightsabers, and the code...none of that makes much sense to use since the Jedi, in every other sense of the word, are gone.
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RedFox
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually considering Obi-Wan and Yoda flipped the retreat beacon at the Order's HQ, there may well be some jedi still wandering around.

I don't take everything Yoda says as gospel. He's been wrong before. About a lot of things. ;)
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Error
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedFox wrote:
Actually considering Obi-Wan and Yoda flipped the retreat beacon at the Order's HQ, there may well be some jedi still wandering around.

I don't take everything Yoda says as gospel. He's been wrong before. About a lot of things. Wink

Also true.

But I find it likely that in the years during episodes III and IV that Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine did indeed "hunt down and murder" the remaining Jedi.

I see several points that could support this theory, the first and foremost of which being the absence of active Jedi during the Rebellion. Also, Bail Organa's message to Obi-wan (delivered via Leia) states that he is their "only hope".

Perhaps I am reading too deep into this, but I think the entire Star Wars storyline is more effective if the Jedi are in fact extinct (aside from Obi-wan and Yoda), and the movie evidence I think certainly supports this.

A point to ponder...is Mace Windu dead? We see him get thrown from Palpatine's chambers...but does he die? I see it likely that he would be one of the most likely candidates for surviving the purge.
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RedFox
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I like the idea of some jedi being around but not being central to the story. I think such makes a good excuse for Luke to easily find some Jedi students / teachers after he forms the new Order.

I'm of the opinion that Mace is bbq tho. :)
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Tatum
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Jedi should be very restricted during the rebellion era. They can be worked in with a good story line (their "master" was one of the last jedi, on the run, and was eventually killed). But, they probably shouldnt be allowed to gain too much power, because at some point they would start to attract too much attention and would be seriously hunted by the empire.

Plus, Jedi are really hard for inexperienced GMs to control, they just end up rampaging every where. More experienced GMs will make it very hard for them to learn new force skills and will make it extremely hard for them to find any kind of teacher. Then, assuming they some how gain a decent level of skill, theyd have all kinds of bounty hunters and imperials on their tail.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: Using the force: for jedi masters only? Reply with quote

scott2978 wrote:
I recently had a discussion with one of my RPG friends about how using the force works in D6. His argument was that only the masterful force users have any real chance of using the force to do anything significant. He sighted that most force powers have a difficulty that you can't make with one or two dice reliably, and the templates in the main rulebook only have one die in any force skill. Without a trainer (we're playing in the rebellion era) your force skills advance so slowly that it's just not feasible to even play a force using character unless you start out as a full-fledged jedi. I've never allowed jedi characters in my games before because I always thought they would be unbalancing, but maybe it's the other way around?

Any advice on the subject?


I was just reading the solo adventure from the Tales of the Jedi Companion yesterday afternoon (I'm in the habit of when I'm home of coming in and taking a peak usually without logging in in the afternoons and when I saw those few pages were up in the PDF sharing thread, I got them) and it reminded to keep in mind that you could use a Force point to double the number of die you had in order to stand a better chance of accomplishing something. So it is more possible on fewer die to succeed at using the Force, if you are willing to spend the Force points to increase your chances.

Also, on the subject of trainers, keep in mind that even though there are only a few Jedi left who could teach you during the Rebellion era, there are other means of learning to use the Force. Your character could study under a teacher who doesn't teach the Force as Jedi know it, one such example being the Tyia. The second edition, revised and expanded, corebook also mentions that potential Jedi during this time might find a Jedi Holocron and learn from it. Or they could get their hands on Jedi datatapes, scrolls, books, or some other teaching aid that could help them to learn to use the Force. Having a teacher is the preferred method, but it is not the only method.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: Using the force: for jedi masters only? Reply with quote

scott2978 wrote:
His argument was that only the masterful force users have any real chance of using the force to do anything significant.


Horsefeathers! Walking accross Tatooine without breaking a sweat, healing wounds in a few hours, ignoring the pain of being shot, ignoring being stunned, reading a microfiche without a reader, moving a 10 kg object without touching it, and projecting your thoughts to your buddies are all easy tasks by the rules. You need only take your time with 1-2D to accomplish these some of the time. If your friend can't roleplay with that, it's his imagination that's lacking. Personally, I think the young padawan adrift without a master who only has partial command of his powers is the most fun a Jedi player can have.

"I can use the force. No, really!"

scott2978 wrote:
He sighted that most force powers have a difficulty that you can't make with one or two dice reliably, and the templates in the main rulebook only have one die in any force skill.


Players are allowed to add skill dice to these at character creation, just like any other skill. So a beginning character can begin with 3D in force skills with the director's approval.

scott2978 wrote:
Without a trainer (we're playing in the rebellion era) your force skills advance so slowly that it's just not feasible to even play a force using character unless you start out as a full-fledged jedi.


Again horsefeathers! As long as you're not a power gamer, this is where the best role playing is! Jedi advance slowly as they should! (True.) But a Jedi with only Accelerate Healing, Remain Conscious, and Resist Stun, and nothing else, at "only" 3D is not someone you want against you in a bar room brawl!

scott2978 wrote:
I've never allowed jedi characters in my games before because I always thought they would be unbalancing, but maybe it's the other way around?


Absolutely! Remember, a Jedi in the Rebellion era has only the powers the DIRECTOR gives him. Since the character cannot learn new powers unless the Director gives him a way to do so.
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Lord Ben
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're playing a rebellion era game. They found a holocron (actually contained inside a "training droid" for new students. Essentially I just said it contains all the powers that don't have rereq's (about 10?) and I've introduced a few "movie powers" since then too.

The Droid/Holocron has enough "lessons" to let he PC's advance up to 3D before it no longer counts as a trainer for increasing skills.

Sure, the Jedi are fairly powerful even with 3D+1 in their skills or whatever they have now. But we do a fair amount of starfighter combat so they usually take a backseat to the other members of the party with 6D starship gunnery, etc.
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Lord Aramus
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the way I have always done it.

With the exception of the first dice in your jedi attributes, all dice raises cost x3 their normal cost unless they have a trainer with at least 2 dice higher skill in their presense.

Also, to gain force powers, they must discover the knowledge of its existance somewhere first.
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TheFamousTommyZ
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Ben wrote:
We're playing a rebellion era game. They found a holocron (actually contained inside a "training droid" for new students. Essentially I just said it contains all the powers that don't have rereq's (about 10?) and I've introduced a few "movie powers" since then too.

The Droid/Holocron has enough "lessons" to let he PC's advance up to 3D before it no longer counts as a trainer for increasing skills.


Talking about starting a game (probably Rebellion era) one of the potential players said something about wanting to be "a droid that looks like Yoda"...so this was where I was planning on going with that...a "training droid".
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