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Particle Shields
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:46 pm    Post subject: Particle Shields Reply with quote

Under WEG, particle shields are rather poorly defined. While supposedly only effective against particle attacks (ion weaponry and missiles, as well as micrometeorites in space and the like), the rule WEG uses for them applies to energy weapons as well.

IMU, I treat them less like particle shields and more like navigation shields, effective against both energy and particle weaponry (which is more in keeping with WEG's rule than WEG's own write-up).

What I'm wondering is how others picture particle / navigation shields operating. Personally, I see two separate-yet-integrated systems providing a similar effect.
    1) Something along the lines of Trek-type structural integrity fields, essentially reinforcing the outer hull and internal framework to provide protection and durability superior to anything achievable with purely physical material. This is hinted at in ANH, with the magnetically sealed garbage compactor.

    2) An "inner-layer" shield system, situated between the ship's Hull and the boundary of its energy shields (represented by Shield dice) that deflects energy and particles away from the actual hull, either dampening the impact or redirecting it entirely.

Thoughts?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see them primarily as the second, myself... a skin-hugging shield that reduces the impact of space junk and energetic particle weapons, thus reducing the damage the ship takes over time... using magnetic fields to reduce the velocity of incoming particles, disrupt the magnetic bottles of blasters prior to impact (making them less efficient), and diffusing the impact even further over the hull than hull plating can. Because shields are essentially infinite (not in capacity, though in duration), they eat up a lot of the damage that the ship would otherwise have to deal with.

Of course, there's also stuff like the trash compactor in ANH, but I tend to view that as being specific to the trash compactor... shields for the interior of the trash compactor in case of accidental explosions (i.e. someone tosses something that still has a charge; another person tosses some chemicals that will ignite from that charge, and *boom*... but it's just a fart in a bottle).
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, i see them as #2, and thus if the ship gets main power knocked out, the particle shields go, ergo -2d to hull. to a Min of 1d in hull.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of why I see them as projecting further out is for atmospheric flight purposes. A lot of SWU ships lack a stream-lined design, yet operate without penalty in atmosphere. My theory is that the #2 option I proposed above also serves to create "virtual aerodynamics" by shaping the field into a shape that directs airflow around the blunt edges of the ship's hull.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I agree, i see them as #2, and thus if the ship gets main power knocked out, the particle shields go, ergo -2d to hull. to a Min of 1d in hull.

I prefer the idea that a ship with a Hull of less than 3D (2D+2 or lower) uses low-power particle shields, with only 1D of Hull value.

EDIT: I also included a rule where, if a ship that has no shields (or has had its Shield reduced to 0D by damage) gets a Shields Damaged result, the penalty is applied against the Particle Shields (to a maximum of whatever that ship has). If it keeps going, the ship suffers structural damage that reduces the Hull...
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Part of why I see them as projecting further out is for atmospheric flight purposes. A lot of SWU ships lack a stream-lined design, yet operate without penalty in atmosphere. My theory is that the #2 option I proposed above also serves to create "virtual aerodynamics" by shaping the field into a shape that directs airflow around the blunt edges of the ship's hull.

And I can see that argument, but I think the option 1 is a little bit less supported... there's no sign that the shields do anything to support the internal structure.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
And I can see that argument, but I think the option 1 is a little bit less supported... there's no sign that the shields do anything to support the internal structure.

It is a bit of a reach, yet it would explain quite a bit. Ships in space in the SWU seem to physically collide with things quite often. The Falcon is "hit" by an asteroid in ESB, yet suffers no apparent damage. It has its sensor dish ripped off during the Death Star run in ROTJ, and so on and so forth...

Using energy fields as structural enhancement would also help explain why SWU ships can take the stresses they do, with regard to thousand-g+ accelerations combined with sudden turns. I'm just thinking that something to that effect just running in the background would help with the suspension of disbelief...
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bao-Dur's arm, and the energy tethers for pods in pod racing. It's clear that using energy as a structural component of various stuff is if not common in Star Wars, at least not wholly unknown.

Which might mean that the beautiful starship designs from the otherwise underwhelming Jupiter Ascending could work if one wanted to introduce a new race, or perhaps ships from an unknown clan of Kwa or Sharu.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Bao-Dur's arm, and the energy tethers for pods in pod racing. It's clear that using energy as a structural component of various stuff is if not common in Star Wars, at least not wholly unknown.


Very good points, especially as I acknowledge Bao-Dur, but not the prequels. Wink
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Bao-Dur's arm, and the energy tethers for pods in pod racing. It's clear that using energy as a structural component of various stuff is if not common in Star Wars, at least not wholly unknown.

I never got into that era of video game, so I can't comment on Bao-Dur, but the pod racers are a good example. A more common one in the SWU is the solid-state / hard-light field used on pretty much every major starship hangar bay, holding the air in while allowing starships to pass through. It appears to require a physical boundary around the edges, and my theory for that is that SSEFs / SIFs require some sort of wave guide emitter to contain them and maintain their form. As such, using such a field on a starship would likely limit it to the hull and main internal structures and bulkhead walls, with the remainder of the ship's compartments built around and between them.

I'm also considering fitting SIFs to Walker-Scale ground vehicles, with energy-reinforced armor helping to explain why they are so tough.

Quote:
Which might mean that the beautiful starship designs from the otherwise underwhelming Jupiter Ascending could work if one wanted to introduce a new race, or perhaps ships from an unknown clan of Kwa or Sharu.

Indeed. The film was a yawn, but the ships were amazing. Having components that are essentially free floating and secured only by SIFs would be several generations ahead of what I'm picturing for general tech level in the SWU, so it would definitely be indicative of a more advanced society.

I wouldn't mind seeing something along the lines of the anti-Grav boots, though. I've been considering something along the lines of the Bounce Infantry from Renegade Legion, so personal repulsorlifts devices are definitely an area of interest for me...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Very good points, especially as I acknowledge Bao-Dur, but not the prequels. Wink

Have you considered the ramifications a structural integrity field system might have on your Veritech stats for the Robotech crossover? It'd go a long way toward explaining how a ship can alter its form while in flight...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

Indeed. The film was a yawn, but the ships were amazing. Having components that are essentially free floating and secured only by SIFs would be several generations ahead of what I'm picturing for general tech level in the SWU, so it would definitely be indicative of a more advanced society.


I seem to be (on many sites) one of the few who loved jupiter ascending.. And i LOVED the visuals, especially that 'made to order box to vac suit emergency thinggy..

CRMcNeill wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing something along the lines of the anti-Grav boots, though. I've been considering something along the lines of the Bounce Infantry from Renegade Legion, so personal repulsorlifts devices are definitely an area of interest for me...


They already have grav boots however they are no where near as advanced as what we saw in JA.. Especially since they do have a 'flight ceiling' cap.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
Very good points, especially as I acknowledge Bao-Dur, but not the prequels. Wink

Have you considered the ramifications a structural integrity field system might have on your Veritech stats for the Robotech crossover? It'd go a long way toward explaining how a ship can alter its form while in flight...


That way lies Voltron...
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“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I seem to be (on many sites) one of the few who loved jupiter ascending.. And i LOVED the visuals, especially that 'made to order box to vac suit emergency thinggy.

In the interests of staying on topic, all I'll say is that the tech level in JA was more advanced than that of the SWU.

Although an ultra-advanced race who harvests life to extend their own could make an interesting villain...

But that would be more appropriate for its own topic...
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
Very good points, especially as I acknowledge Bao-Dur, but not the prequels. Wink

Have you considered the ramifications a structural integrity field system might have on your Veritech stats for the Robotech crossover? It'd go a long way toward explaining how a ship can alter its form while in flight...


That way lies Voltron...


That would be an extreme version, but it would also add stability to a craft that is designed to bend in half in the middle while turning from a starfighter into a giant space robot.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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