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Where are "The Big Corellian Ships"?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:41 pm    Post subject: Where are "The Big Corellian Ships"? Reply with quote

Han Solo brags about outrunning them, which apparently is a point of pride for a Starship.

Corellian "battleships, carriers, cruisers, frigates" are mentioned as being part of the Rebel Fleet for the Battle of Endor.

And that's it. We got stats for the Bulk Cruisers Han mentioned in the same sentence. So why not the other, more impressive ship, too?
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mothball yards across the corellian sector ? i do wonder why the lack of stats though but i suspect that they share CEC's modular design philosophy - so i wouldn't be surprised if the Battleship and carrier were the same hull with different parts while the cruiser and frigate are like up gunned/up massed CR90's.

or the Cruiser and Frigate are common hulls with a myriad of possible configuration based on need and the empire got the idea for the Strike cruiser from CEC.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedKnight wrote:
Mothball yards across the corellian sector ?

Unlikely. While the references are limited, I find it impossible to believe that such ships would be mothballed while bulk cruisers (which are obviously inferior in capability) continue in service.

Quote:
i do wonder why the lack of stats though but i suspect that they share CEC's modular design philosophy - so i wouldn't be surprised if the Battleship and carrier were the same hull with different parts while the cruiser and frigate are like up gunned/up massed CR90's.

or the Cruiser and Frigate are common hulls with a myriad of possible configuration based on need and the empire got the idea for the Strike cruiser from CEC.

I don't agree. While CEC included a modular design in some ships, the prime example of a CEC warship (the gunship) has no modularity to it at all.

Personally, I'd love to crossover some of the ships from the Renegade Legion Leviathan sub-game (capital ship combat to Renegade Legion: Centurion's tank battles), as there are some real beauties in that system.
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wouldn't the corvette be a better example ? and it's 'adaptable' if not totally modular. I think 'Adaptable' if not modular is one of the fundamentals of Corellian starships.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
RedKnight wrote:
Mothball yards across the corellian sector ?

Unlikely. While the references are limited, I find it impossible to believe that such ships would be mothballed while bulk cruisers (which are obviously inferior in capability) continue in service.


Well, remember iirc the corellian sector was part of the separatist army, so maybe for rejoining the republic (and then then empire) they HAD to give over those larger service yards/only keep the bulk cruisers as part of the deal..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedKnight wrote:
wouldn't the corvette be a better example ? and it's 'adaptable' if not totally modular. I think 'Adaptable' if not modular is one of the fundamentals of Corellian starships.

That was why I brought up the Gunship; it isn't modular. And modularity can be a weakness if overdone in warships...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Well, remember iirc the corellian sector was part of the separatist army, so maybe for rejoining the republic (and then then empire) they HAD to give over those larger service yards/only keep the bulk cruisers as part of the deal..

Where are you getting this? Everything I've seen (including the Legends page for Corellia on Wookieepedia) states that Corellia was more of a semi-independent ally to the Republic than they ever were a member of the Separatists, going so far as to dispatch units of its Sector Fleet to repel Separatist incursions and aid Jedi.

Even if they had been Separatist, the timing doesn't add up. Han didn't own the Millennium Falcon during that time period, yet still brags about outrunning big Corellian ships 20 years after the end of the Clone Wars in the near-present tense. They should still be in service.

Based on the Wookieepedia article, after the Clone Wars, the Diktat government of Corellia made a deal like what we touched on here, to the effect that Corellia could be self governing so long as it paid homage, taxes and war materiel to the Empire.

As a result, the big Corellian ships were likely found mostly in the Corellian Sector, as part of the Sector Fleet, but would likely also have been sold to the Empire as part of the war materiel contribution. But that would only explain why they aren't seen on screen, not why they make no appearance at all in the EU apart from Han's bragging...
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Melkor
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did some digging and found a few Corellian Capital ships that are bigger than the corvettes that belong to CEC, but all of them that I found were phased out by the Clone Wars.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A while back, I wrote up stats (that have since been lost in a hard drive crash) for a pair of Corellian Capital ships, using artwork from the Art of Return of the Jedi book. Both were concept art originally planned for the Mon Cal Cruisers, but were sufficiently different from Mon Cal MC80 cruisers that I felt confident in saying that they weren't Mon Cal. One of them has since been co-opted as the MC30 Frigate for the X-Wing game, but I may resurrect the idea for my own canon.

The two ships were:




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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Well, remember iirc the corellian sector was part of the separatist army, so maybe for rejoining the republic (and then then empire) they HAD to give over those larger service yards/only keep the bulk cruisers as part of the deal..

Where are you getting this? Everything I've seen (including the Legends page for Corellia on Wookieepedia) states that Corellia was more of a semi-independent ally to the Republic than they ever were a member of the Separatists, going so far as to dispatch units of its Sector Fleet to repel Separatist incursions and aid Jedi..


I could have sworn it was in one of the novels..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something of a quandary...

The novel for ROTJ describes the Rebel Fleet as follows:
Quote:
In a remote and midnight vacuum beyond the edge of the galaxy, the vast Rebel fleet stretched, from its vanguard to its rear echelon, past the range of human vision. Corellian battle ships, cruisers, destroyers, carriers, bombers, Sullustan cargo freighters, Calamarian tankers, Alderaanian gunships, Kesselian blockade runners, Bestinian skyhoppers, X-Wing, Y-Wing and A-Wing fighters, shuttles, transport vehicles, manowars.

(Emphasis mine)

Obviously, what we saw in the films ended up quite different from what was described here, with the bulk of the fleet at Endor composed of Mon Cal Cruisers and Kuati frigates, which don't even make the list.

What I'm wondering is,
    A) Is there a place in the Alliance Fleet for Corellian ships, since they are so heavily represented in the novel?

    B) What would their backstory be? Did they defect right after the Clone Wars, when the Diktat declared allegiance to the Empire? Or were they a trickle of defectors, like the Nebulon B's from KDY?

    C) Are they the same classes as the "big Corellian ships" Han Solo mentions, or would it be two separate generations, with the newer, more capable ones being the ones Han was referring to?

Thoughts?
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A.) I dont think the alliance could/would turn them down and aren't the Moncal ships pretty much heavily shielded carriers ? a Corellian battleship leading a squadron of smaller ships could provide the heavy hitting power to smash capital ships. Or the smaller ships would probably be good escorts for the Moncal carriers.

B.) Maybe some defected in a trickle and some waited....and then the alliance found out about the Death Star II from Manny Bothans and hit the 'pull out all stops, call in all favors' button to rally everything they had to counter it? it's my read that by and large the Corellians didn't necessarily agree with the Diktats position. also whose to say they were actually Corellian Defense Force ships and not just ships purchased by independents or small system defense forces from CEC ?

C.) They most likely are, how often did han operate in the core especially once he dumped Jabba's cargo in a volcano.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedKnight wrote:
A.) I don't think the alliance could/would turn them down and aren't the Moncal ships pretty much heavily shielded carriers?

Negative. They don't quite match up to Imperial Star Destroyers, but they come pretty close. They aren't really carriers, either, with only 3 squadrons to the ISD's 6.

Quote:
a Corellian battleship leading a squadron of smaller ships could provide the heavy hitting power to smash capital ships. Or the smaller ships would probably be good escorts for the Moncal carriers.

Right now I'm thinking making the larger ship a star cruiser, similar to the Mon Cals, but with more conventional shield systems offset by heavier armor and guns.

The smaller one would be a fast heavy cruiser, with Space 7 and a x.75 hyperdrive. That would be the one Han brags about outrunning.


Quote:
B.) Maybe some defected in a trickle and some waited....and then the alliance found out about the Death Star II from Manny Bothans and hit the 'pull out all stops, call in all favors' button to rally everything they had to counter it? it's my read that by and large the Corellians didn't necessarily agree with the Diktats position. also whose to say they were actually Corellian Defense Force ships and not just ships purchased by independents or small system defense forces from CEC ?

Or all of the above, which is as good a reason as any.

Quote:
C.) They most likely are, how often did han operate in the core especially once he dumped Jabba's cargo in a volcano.

This isn't really clear as to which one of the options you're referring to. Do you mean that the ships in the Alliance Fleet would be the same type Han ran from, as in, part of the Corellian Sector Fleet?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Dauntless-Class Heavy Cruiser

Quote:
Han Solo: "I've outrun Imperial starships. Not the local bulk cruisers, mind ya, I'm talkin' about the big Corellian ships."
This is no idle boast. The Dauntless-Class Heavy Cruiser is easily the fastest heavy cruiser in existence. Developed by the Corellian Engineering Corporation for the Corellian Sector Fleet, these speedy vessels are a regular sight in Corellian territory, as well as up and down the Corellian Trade Spine, protecting Corellian interests. Small numbers also serve in the Imperial Fleet, as part of Corellia's regular tithe of military equipment to the Empire. The Dauntless was actually considered by the Imperial Navy for its new heavy cruiser program, but ultimately lost out to Seinar Fleet Systems' less expensive Vindicator-Class (if anything, this was as much due to SFS's political influence as it was the expense). In addition, a steady trickle of Dauntlesses have made their way into the hands of the Alliance, whether as the result of defections, mutiny or ship-jacking.

Craft: Corellian Engineering Corporation's Dauntless-Class
Type: Heavy Cruiser
Scale: Frigate (+10D)
Length: 700 meters
Skill: Capital Ship Piloting: Dauntless-Class
Crew: 2,748 (1,300 @ +10) & 150 Gunners
Crew Skill:
Astrogation 4D
Gunnery 5D
Piloting 5D
Shields 4D
Sensors 4D
Passengers: 450
Small Craft Complement:
--24 Starfighters (2 squadrons)
--Assorted Utility Craft
Cargo Capacity: 2,000 metric tons
Consumables: 1.5 years
Hyperdrive Multiplier: x3/4
Hyperdrive Backup: x10
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverability: 1D+2
Space: 7
Atmosphere: 350; 1,000 km/h
Hull: 6D
Shields: 3D
Sensors:
Passive 30/1D
Scan 75/2D
Search 150/3D
Focus 5/4D
Weapons:
10 Heavy Turbolaser Cannon
Fire Arc: 2 Front, 4 Left, 4 Right
Crew: 4
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 1D
Range:
--Space: 3-15/35/75
--Orbital: 6km-30km/70km/150km
--Atmosphere: 300m-1.5km/3.5km/7.5km
Rate of Fire: 1/2
Damage: 7D
20 Dual Turbolaser Cannon
Fire Arc: 6 Front, 5 Left, 5 Right, 4 Rear
Crew: 2
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Range:
--Space: 2-10/25/50
--Orbital: 4km-20km/50km/100km
--Atmosphere: 200m-1km/2.5km/5km
Rate of Fire: 1
Damage: 5D
10 Ion Cannon
Fire Arc: 4 Front, 3 Left, 3 Right
Crew: 2
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Range:
--Space: 1-7/17/35
--Orbital: 2km-14km/34km/70km
--Atmosphere: 100m-700m/1.7km/3.5km
Rate of Fire: 1
Damage: 4D (ionization)
20 Quad-Laser Cannon
Fire Arc: 5 Front, 5 Left, 5 Right, 5 Rear
Scale: Starfighter (+6D)
Crew: 1
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Range:
--Space: 1-3/12/25
--Orbital: 2km-6km/24km/50km
--Atmosphere: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 6D
10 Tractor Beam Projectors
Fire Arc: 4 Front, 3 Left, 3 Right
Scale: Special*
Crew: 3
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Range:
--Space: 1-3/10/20
--Orbital: 2km-6km/20km/40km
--Atmosphere: 100m-300m/1km/2km
Rate of Fire: 1 (Full Round)
Damage: 4D
*May switch between Frigate (+10D) and Starship (+6D). Switch takes one round, during which the projector can not be used.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

Quote:
C.) They most likely are, how often did han operate in the core especially once he dumped Jabba's cargo in a volcano.

This isn't really clear as to which one of the options you're referring to. Do you mean that the ships in the Alliance Fleet would be the same type Han ran from, as in, part of the Corellian Sector Fleet?


yes thats what i meant and it isnt like the Corellian Sector fleet would be the only ones using something produced by CEC right ? they could have been employed by various other sectors and wealthier system defense forces.
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