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Combining Sensors and Communications Rules
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I'd say just go for what you're thinking right now, and if bonuses look too large for certain people, they can convert dice to pips and the take a percentage pretty quickly.

That's the way I'm leaning. I'm already going to have to generate Difficulties just for getting a signal through, since the current difficulties are mostly geared toward intercepting someone else's transmissions, and there is going to be at least some form of opposed skill rolls, mostly for jamming, but also for signal interception...
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm already going to have to generate Difficulties just for getting a signal through, since the current difficulties are mostly geared toward intercepting someone else's transmissions, and there is going to be at least some form of opposed skill rolls, mostly for jamming, but also for signal interception...


Check Rules of Engagement Page 37 for additional Communications Difficulties.

*Edited to change page citation.*
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Check Rules of Engagement Page 37 for additional Communications Difficulties.

*Edited to change page citation.*

Thanks. Some good stuff there.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, life has kept me very busy lately, but I keep coming back around to this, as having a unified system for CommScanECM has a bearing on various stat projects I have on the back burner.

Something that came up recently here is that comm systems need usable ranges. It does no good to know how many light-years a subspace comm can reach if you don't know how many light-years converts to on a sector map.

The closest the EU has ever come to setting a standard for hyperdrive speeds is in Dark Force Rising, where a Victory I is cited as being able to cruise at 127 light-years per hour. I have no idea if this has ever been officially confirmed (and I highly doubt it), but it is as good a starting place as any. The above speed works out to just over 2 light-years per minute.

So for the sake of more easily overlaying communications onto a sector map, I'm going to create a new measurement of distance: the hyperminute, which is the linear distance covered by a x1 hyperdrive ship in one minute. This distance will not have a conversion to kilometers rating, and will remain deliberately vague insofar as an absolute distance value.

The hyperminute will be used as the base distance unit for all FTL comms as this project progresses.

For conversion purposes only, one hyperminute will be equal to 2 light-years. In other words, if you have a subspace comm with a range of 150 light-years, it will convert to 75 hyperminutes.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a suggestion, but, why not make the conversion 1 for 1 or 1 to 10 or 10 to 1? Since the 127LY thing is somewhat obscure and dubiously official (and lets not even get into "megalights"), perhaps just go with a more straigjt forward conversion?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Just a suggestion, but, why not make the conversion 1 for 1 or 1 to 10 or 10 to 1? Since the 127LY thing is somewhat obscure and dubiously official (and lets not even get into "megalights"), perhaps just go with a more straigjt forward conversion?

Because I like to use official sources wherever possible. As I said, this is the closest the EU gets to an actual number. As I get more into the nuts and bolts of a unified rule, I may change my mind, but at the moment, I just want to establish the basic concept of the hyperminute as a usable measurement of in-game distance.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under the official rules for Sensors, there is something of a double obstacle. Pretty much every ship has 4 Sensor modes, each with its own range and increasing dice value. However, under the skill Sensors, each Sensor Mode also has its own Difficulty rating, with the highest Difficulties (Passive) being paired with the Sensor Mode that consistently has the lowest Dice value. So not only does Passive usually have about a 1D rating, it also has to clear much higher Difficulties than the other Sensor modes.

I could see this system working as part of the Instant Adventures rules, where ships had a simple sensor rating in the 1D-3D range, but it seems like overkill for 2R&E.

For the purposes of this system, I'm going to throw out the Difficulty Chart listed under the Sensors skill and have a single Difficulty level for Detect and Identify, which will then be modified by conditions and the target ship's sensor signature modifier (i.e. a larger, more powerful ship will have a more obvious sensor signature, and thus be easier to detect and identify, expressed in game terms as a negative modifier to the Difficulty to Detect and Identify)
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Naaman wrote:
Just a suggestion, but, why not make the conversion 1 for 1 or 1 to 10 or 10 to 1? Since the 127LY thing is somewhat obscure and dubiously official (and lets not even get into "megalights"), perhaps just go with a more straigjt forward conversion?

Because I like to use official sources wherever possible. As I said, this is the closest the EU gets to an actual number. As I get more into the nuts and bolts of a unified rule, I may change my mind, but at the moment, I just want to establish the basic concept of the hyperminute as a usable measurement of in-game distance.

After some consideration, it occured to me that it might be better to base the hyperminute on a more common hyperdrive multiplier, the x2 drive, which WEG considers the average hyperdrive speed. Using x2 instead of x1 brings the hyperminute down to the 1-to-1 ratio you suggested, while still adhering (mostly) to the higher speed of the Victory I according to Tim Zahn.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, the vagueness of the hyperminute underscores the nonlinear nature of space. A lightyear is distance, and not a straight line - it would undulate through spacetime as it traveled near various distortions; in fact, that's exactly what gravitational lensing is.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Naaman wrote:
Just a suggestion, but, why not make the conversion 1 for 1 or 1 to 10 or 10 to 1? Since the 127LY thing is somewhat obscure and dubiously official (and lets not even get into "megalights"), perhaps just go with a more straigjt forward conversion?

Because I like to use official sources wherever possible. As I said, this is the closest the EU gets to an actual number. As I get more into the nuts and bolts of a unified rule, I may change my mind, but at the moment, I just want to establish the basic concept of the hyperminute as a usable measurement of in-game distance.


Makes sense. I would probably end up doing the same, honestly.

Concerning the x2 hyperdrive, I wondered about that myself but for whatever reason, omitted it from my original question.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Also, the vagueness of the hyperminute underscores the nonlinear nature of space. A lightyear is distance, and not a straight line - it would undulate through spacetime as it traveled near various distortions; in fact, that's exactly what gravitational lensing is.


But it's not unlike measuring speed through water (and air) in 'knots'.

Because seas have currents and move in and of themselves, they had to develop a new way of measuring speed.

Not precisely why they counted out how many knots in a rope got played out behind a moving ship, but an interesting coincidence.
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tcschenks
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Introductory game, one of the last that WEG published, combined the two. I do that for my 2nd edition game as well. Com-Scan.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this helps, but in my 1E games, the rare times that I need a sensors roll, I use the Astrogation skill.

I figure measuring routes among the stars is all about working with sensors and sensor data, which is why I didn't make up a new "Sensors" skill.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I don't know if this helps, but in my 1E games, the rare times that I need a sensors roll, I use the Astrogation skill.

I figure measuring routes among the stars is all about working with sensors and sensor data, which is why I didn't make up a new "Sensors" skill.


Where as i see astrogation more about memorizing maps, knowing coordinates and such, not manipulating sensors..
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I don't know if this helps, but in my 1E games, the rare times that I need a sensors roll, I use the Astrogation skill.

I figure measuring routes among the stars is all about working with sensors and sensor data, which is why I didn't make up a new "Sensors" skill.


Where as i see astrogation more about memorizing maps, knowing coordinates and such, not manipulating sensors..


Yeah, but they're not using paper maps. A "map" that the Falcon uses has got to be all data--sensor data--used to construct a 3D moving and time relevant reference. If the planet was here on its orbital rotation, and all the moons where here, there, and over there, then where we need to jump into the system, at this specific time, is riiiiiggghhht here. Don't forget to figure the entire system's move around the galactic core!

Collating, Receiving, Interpreting, and Using sensor data has got to be a HUGE part of Astrogation.
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