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MrNexx
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 Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Conversely, I would say 5 credits is way too cheap... they're cheaper than a low-end flashlight, at that point. 5 credits for the materials to make them? Sure. But to buy off the shelf? World's gonna be constantly shrouded in smoke.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | | You guys are forgetting something...you're free to write your own versions of these weapons. Want to make a flashbang that PER defends against rather than doesn't, and that makes allowances for every alien in every situation with every level of acuity? Go do it! I wrote mine because I didn't see conversions out there, and the one I did was waaay overcomplicated (so much so it was out of the spirit of the game, IMO). Even though it might not make sense to me at all, go write one and put it in this thread, and hopefully someone who likes it will use it. |
You'll find that many of us around here throw ideas back and forth for no other reason than that it is mentally stimulating to come up with ways to express a concept via the D6 rules system.
It's not really about trying to change anyone's mind (though it can feel that way). Rather, there is a certain satisfaction derived from "solving a puzzle" within the constraints of the given rules.
For me, I sometime persist as long as I feel like the point I'm trying to make is being missed. There is also a certain satisfaction with knowing that even if someone disagrees, they actually understand what I'm trying to say 100%.
FWIW, SWAT types who train with flashbangs are somewhat "immune" to their effects having been exposed to them over and over again. They have trained to fight through the effects in the event that they are inadvertently exposed to one during an operation. |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | You'll find that many of us around here throw ideas back and forth for no other reason than that it is mentally stimulating to come up with ways to express a concept via the D6 rules system.
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My name is MrNexx and I approve this message.
Like, for example, your mechanics on the flashbang... they're perfectly workable, but they niggle on my sense of game design style and aesthetics.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Mr Nexx, i noticed you didn't comment on MY variation of the flash bangs, as in that linked article i had back on page 1..
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Mr Nexx, i noticed you didn't comment on MY variation of the flash bangs, as in that linked article i had back on page 1.. |
That's because I ignore everything you say. 
(Nah, seriously, I'll double check)
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | I have often had these 'alternate stunning' weapons used by city swats and local planetary guards. Unlike normal grenades, Flash bangs get resisted by Perception, NOT strength. In the past i have usually had them set at a specific 'damage' value that someone rolls their Per against, and the lower they roll, the more 'debilitated' they are from blinding and disorientation Normal Flash bangs are a 20 base value, with the resultant disorientation being valued at
0-3 less - minus 1d for 1 round to all actions
4-7 less, -2d for 1d rounds
8-12 less, -3d for 2d rounds
13-16 less, -4d for 1 minute
17 or more, -4d for 1d minutes.
There is a heavier flash bang with a flat 25 for its disorientation value, and a lesser one set at 15.
Last Gencon someone suggested rather than having it be a flat value, have it a Die value (like all other grenades/explosives etc), and allow for things like sonic dampeners/flash suppressor goggles to give bonuses much like armor do..
What say you all on that?
Should they go to a die damage value or stay as is?
What would be a good "armor" bonus those items should grant to the Per roll? |
Overall, I like it. I'm on the fence about using Perception as defense (the old "Initiative v. Sensory Acuity" argument we've had here), but so long as you do apply improved senses and sense protection as factors, it's a good one.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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As i said above, my main reasoning for it, is not everything that harms you should be resisted with your tough @$$ strength (unless its the force then its mostly Per). Which is why i have never liked 'sonic guns' being resisted with Str.. Those things to be should be resisted with Per..
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Error
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Error wrote: | | You guys are forgetting something...you're free to write your own versions of these weapons. Want to make a flashbang that PER defends against rather than doesn't, and that makes allowances for every alien in every situation with every level of acuity? Go do it! I wrote mine because I didn't see conversions out there, and the one I did was waaay overcomplicated (so much so it was out of the spirit of the game, IMO). Even though it might not make sense to me at all, go write one and put it in this thread, and hopefully someone who likes it will use it. |
You'll find that many of us around here throw ideas back and forth for no other reason than that it is mentally stimulating to come up with ways to express a concept via the D6 rules system.
It's not really about trying to change anyone's mind (though it can feel that way). Rather, there is a certain satisfaction derived from "solving a puzzle" within the constraints of the given rules.
For me, I sometime persist as long as I feel like the point I'm trying to make is being missed. There is also a certain satisfaction with knowing that even if someone disagrees, they actually understand what I'm trying to say 100%.
FWIW, SWAT types who train with flashbangs are somewhat "immune" to their effects having been exposed to them over and over again. They have trained to fight through the effects in the event that they are inadvertently exposed to one during an operation. |
Oh, I understand completely. I apologize if any of my words were adversarial in tone. It's always only because I feel strongly about something, not because I want to stir up any negative sentiment. I'm definitely here to "kick the ball around" when it comes to ideas than start arguments. Though I try to keep myself rational at times, I do struggle with it now and then, just like all the rest of us strange human beings 
As for SWAT types developing some immunity to such tactics, probably in some ways they do. I'm not sure if it would ever come up in a game I run, though. I personally consider that their equipment is designed to help them overcome that anyway. Just look at the components of a SWAT member's helmet sometime. If a character in the SWU had that helmet on, he might partially resist a flashbang too.
| MrNexx wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | You'll find that many of us around here throw ideas back and forth for no other reason than that it is mentally stimulating to come up with ways to express a concept via the D6 rules system.
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My name is MrNexx and I approve this message.
Like, for example, your mechanics on the flashbang... they're perfectly workable, but they niggle on my sense of game design style and aesthetics. |
I totally get that too. I know that there are other ways to do it, but I wanted to try this design space and see if it could work with D6 as it is without altering any rules. There are probably two or three more ways to do it. I probably should have made that clearer from the beginning.
There really aren't a whole lot of things that penalize Perception as an attribute being high. Also, a given flashbang (as written) may really only screw over an extra being out of ten, and in one in ten situations to boot. I feel the "abuse potential" is very low. How often will you see flashbangs in the SWU anyway? Not much. Bounty hunters could use them in "live capture only" situations, and so could sector/planet police in order to take fugitives alive...but in general the concept would not be pervasive. There are way more effective weapons that can be had for "200-500" credits. Plenty of really effective concussion and stun grenades out there, stun grenades that keep you down, too. I really like the "Glop" one, it's my absolute favorite. I think you can search the "Weapons Stats" document in your .pdf reader for "Glop" and you will find it.
| garhkal wrote: | | As i said above, my main reasoning for it, is not everything that harms you should be resisted with your tough @$$ strength (unless its the force then its mostly Per). Which is why i have never liked 'sonic guns' being resisted with Str.. Those things to be should be resisted with Per.. |
You really think so? Not me. With sonic guns, I personally imagine it is the physical waves of the sound hitting things that disrupts the materials those things are made of. For example, a sonic wave of sufficient strength shatters glass, cuts blood vessels, breaks bone, breaks right through masonry, etc.) that is the effect the character has to resist. Hearing the sound isn't what does the damage at all, I think.
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Last edited by Error on Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:52 am Post subject: |
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IRL its the sound, not the vibrations that many cop forces are using in making their sonic guns..
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Error
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | IRL its the sound, not the vibrations that many cop forces are using in making their sonic guns.. |
There is a difference between a "riot gun" that uses really awful sounds to repel people (in such a case, said sounds are so awful that the human body will propel you away from them naturally), and a "gun" gun which uses sound waves to disrupt materials and do damage.
If you're talking about the riot gun type, the first one above, which police use to disperse crowds, then you're right, in my opinion. Perception would be the resist roll.
For the second type, it's definitely Strength.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:10 am Post subject: |
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And to me flash bangs form in that first grouping.. THe sound and light they create are designed to just overwhelm your senses..
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Error
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | And to me flash bangs form in that first grouping.. THe sound and light they create are designed to just overwhelm your senses.. |
I can see now why you'd think a flashbang would be resisted by PER.
Perhaps PER could be factored into shortening the duration somehow. What about this? For every full die you have in PER (3D+1 would equal 3, for example, 2D+2 would be 2, and so on), the duration of the flashbang effect is decreased by that many rounds. Of course, I'd have to push the duration up at little (to 2D+1 or 3D rounds for example). That way a being who is "affected" by a flashbang as I have written it could conceivably just shrug it off if the duration roll is low enough and they have 3-4 dice in PER. So high PER would get you affected, but it would also help in determining for how long.
Thoughts?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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It's still making it though where the HIGH @$$ strength characters, don't really need to worry about it though, since the way you are going about it, its their STR that resists in the first place, and with high strength + armor etc, there's less chance they will be affected.. So having additional rounds removed from their high per doesn't really matter.
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Error
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:58 am Post subject: |
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I was trying to throw a bone to the folks who don't like that my flashbang write-up penalizes you for having high PER.
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