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Updated conversion: Grievous of Kalee (15-20 minute read)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:09 pm    Post subject: Updated conversion: Grievous of Kalee (15-20 minute read) Reply with quote

Grievous of Kalee




Other images of Grievous:
http://i.imgur.com/HoB8jHb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Xl5OcFI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4dVq9c9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TiwCvgu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GgLz557.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ykbXKZX.jpg


Origins of this Conversion

Early conversions of General Grievous around the time of Revenge of the Sith (RotS) and the Clone Wars (CW) cartoon (a short series distinct from the show Star Wars: The Clone Wars [TCW]) lack significant information about the character that would later be explored in greater detail in the longer-running CGI-animated TCW. This character sheet is my attempt to resolve some of these differences without expressly going against any canonical source.


Character Basics and Stats

Character Name: Grievous (born Qymaen jai Sheelal)*
Character Type: Cyborg warrior and tactician
Gender/Species: Male, Kaleesh
Homeworld: Kalee
Age: Unknown
Height: 2.4 m when walking, 2.8 m when standing straight up
Weight: 320 kg
Languages: Basic, Kaleesh, Pak Pak (Nemoidian), Binary

* Pronounced (respectively) “gree-vus” and “ky-may-en jy she-lal

Physical Description: Grievous is a masked cyborg who is only about 20% living tissue. His chest armor protects his synthskin organ sac, which contains his heart, lungs, and a few other essential organs, while his brain, mouth, and eyes (and some of their adjacent tissues) are enclosed within his intimidating mask. This mask is modeled on the skull of the mumuu animal from Kalee, which the Kaleesh hunt for sport.

The only outward signs that Grievous began his existence as a life form are his yellow eyes (with their slit pupils and the reptilian skin around them), and his voice, which is spoken from behind his mask and is accompanied by fits of gooey coughing. Otherwise, Grievous appears as a large, intimidating cyborg who has clearly been built to fight, with extensive cybernetic enhancements, including all-metal limbs, chest plates, armored head and neck, and six possible limbs. Grievous wears a Kaleesh cloak when not engaged in combat, with pockets in its interior in which the cyborg general keeps the lightsabers he claims from captured or slain Jedi.


Attributes and Skills

(The number in brackets after some attributes and skills is the highest—temporarily or consistently—DC which that attribute or skill can reach due to Special Abilities this character has.)

DEXTERITY: 5D [5D+1]
Acrobatics: 9D+1 [10D+2]
Blaster: 7D
Blaster: heavy blaster pistol: 9D+1
Brawling parry: 8D+1
Dodge: 9D+2
Firearms: 8D
Firearms: rifle: 12D+1
Lightsaber: 14D+2 [18D+2]
Melee combat: 9D
Melee combat: Lig sword: 10D+2
Missile weapons: 6D
Missile weapons: grapping hook: 7D+2
Running: 6D+1 [7D+1]

KNOWLEDGE: 2D+2
Alien species: 5D+1
Intimidation: 8D [9D]
Planetary systems: 5D+1
Scholar: 3D+2
Scholar: Jedi lightsaber forms: 7D+2
Scholar: martial tactics: 10D+1
Tactics: 8D
Tactics: surface battles: 12D+1
Tactics: warfare against Jedi: 10D
Tactics: naval (space) warfare: 13D+1

MECHANICAL: 3D
Astrogation: 5D+1
Beast riding: 4D+2
Capital ship piloting: 5D+1
Communications: 6D
Sensors: 7D
Starfighter piloting: 6D+2
Starfighter piloting: Belbullab-22: 8D
Starship gunnery: 5D
Starship shields: 4D+1

PERCEPTION: 3D+2 [5D]
Command: 8D+2
Command: battle droid: 13D+2
Command: IG-100 MagnaGuard: 12D
Con: 6D+2
Hide: 5D
Investigation: 7D
Search: 7D+1 [10D]
Search: tracking: 8D+2 [11D+1]
Sneak: 6D+1

STRENGTH: 4D+2 [5D+2]
Brawling: 9D+1 [10D+1]
Brawn: 8D
Climbing 5D+2 [6D+2]
Jumping: 5D+2 [7D]
Lifting: 9D+1
Stamina: 10D

TECHNICAL: 2D+1
Computers: 4D
Droid programming: 3D+2
Droid programming:
IG-100 MagnaGuard: 7D
Droid repair: 4D+1
Droid repair: IG-100 MagnaGuard: 6D+2
Starfighter repair: 5D+1
Starship weapon repair: 3D


Equipped With:

Cybernetic droid armor:
+3D+1 vs. physical damage; +2D+2 vs. energy.

Enhanced eyes and sealed gut sac:
Grievous’s eye enhancements protect them from the vacuum of space, and he can also see in infrared, ultraviolet, and other spectra. They grant him +2p to his Search skill whenever they are used, and he gets and additional +2D in low-light conditions because Kaleesh can see in the dark. Since both his eyes and his gut sac are protected from vacuum, Grievous may space walk for as long as he can hold his breath. His cybernetics have given him some control over his oxygen needs, so he can go without a breath for about ten minutes, after which he begins to take suffocation damage.

Enhanced feet and hands:
Both Grievous’s fingers and toes are claws, which may be used as a weapon (damage: STR+1D+2 [6D+1]). They also grant him a +1D bonus to his Climbing skill. He may also magnetize his hands and feet as a free action, allowing him to be even better at hanging onto hard-to grip surfaces, such as walls, ceilings, hulls of starships, and/or other difficult-to-grip surfaces.

Enhanced legs:
Hydraulic pistons in his legs grant Grievous a 1D+1 bonus to his Jumping and Acrobatics skills.

Four arms:
Grievous actually has four arms with three fingers each. However, he tends to join them in pairs so that it appears he has only two six-fingered arms. With two arms, he gains a +1D bonus to his Strength attribute for the purposes of rolling Brawling damage or the damage of a melee weapon which adds his Strength to another die code. He may also divide each of his arms into two (for a total of four) as a roll-less full action in a round. In this four-armed form, Grievous is allowed two manual Dexterity actions per round before the application of any multi-action penalties. Also, when Brawling or Climbing, Grievous receives a +1D bonus when using all four arms or +2p when using three. Having four arms also amplifies Grievous’s effectiveness as a swordsman. When wielding more than one lightsaber, he receives a +1p bonus to his Lightsaber skill for each lightsaber he wields beyond the first, for a maximum bonus of +1D.

Magnetic grappling hooks:
Grievous has a magnetic grappling hook launcher mounted on the dorsal side of each forearm. They deploy a 50 m syntherope lanyard, and a full load (up to 500 kg) may be reeled back in at any speed between 1 and 10 m per round. When he is finished with it, Grievous may either release the cable or deactivate the magnetic “hook” and reel it back in (this action takes two rounds) so it may be reused. This weapon uses the Missile weapons: grappling hook skill, and its range is (1-10/25/50).

Sensory-enhancement package:
Grievous has extensive neural implants and state-of-the-art biomechanical interface software packages, all of which increase his reaction time and his overall speed during combat and otherwise. These implants grant him a +1D+1 bonus to his Perception attribute for purposes of initiative checks, and a static +1p bonus to his Dexterity attribute and all skills contained therein.

Six possible legs:
Grievous may also use his four arms as extra legs. These extra legs allow him to move along surfaces more nimbly and expeditiously than he would in his usual bipedal manner, much like an insect such as a centipede moves. During such movements, he receives a bonus of +1D to his Running skill and +5 to his Move. Grievous may not attack while using his arms as additional legs; he must first stand up (as another free action).

Move: 13 (18 if in six-legged mode)
Force Sensitive? No
Force Points: 5
Dark Side Points: 24
Character Points: 31

Special Abilities:

Trained in Jedi swordplay:
Grievous has been trained in the art of lightsaber combat by Count Dooku. This training included all seven forms of Jedi lightsaber combat (as well as the arcane Makashi and Juyo forms), as well as some Sith dueling techniques not taught by the Jedi. If Grievous fights a Jedi or a Sith, he receives an additional +2D to his Lightsaber skill against them.

Rotating wrists attack:
This attack can be “kept up” as a moderate manual Dexterity action each round. It commences as Grievous’s wrists begin to spin lightsabers between 200 and 300 rpm, giving Grievous a +1D bonus to his Intimidation skill that round and +1D to his Lightsaber skill as long as the attack commences. He may continue lightsaber combat with his other two hands as usual. While he is in this mode, if one of his opponents fails an attack roll against him by 10 or more, that opponent takes damage from one of Grievous’s spinning lightsabers (5D).

Game Notes:

Artificially Short Temper:
Grievous's temper was intentionally shortened by Count Dooku and San Hill when the cyborg was being constructed on Geonosis. Any PC interacting with Grievous on any level may fall victim to his irritation or anger, and he may attempt to intimidate or kill anyone whom he does not want around. The behavior of the Kaleesh cyborg may be generalized beforehand as “consistently and needlessly violent”. Grievous is prone to the occasional paroxysmal outburst, since the engineers on Geonosis pruned his temper back to nothing and increased his animus toward the Republic and Jedi specifically. Grievous is subject to persistent ill humor and the occasional outburst, during which he may need to annihilate battle droids, nearby equipment, and even living beings in order to mollify himself.

Equipment:
- Kaleesh cloak
- four lightsabers (5D each)
- BlasTech DT-57 “Annihilator” heavy blaster pistol (damage: 6D+1; range: 3-7/25/50)
- six IG-100 MagnaGuards each armed with electrostaves (STR +3D [max 6D])
- Neural implants: sensory-enhancement package, decreased control of anger and/or rage, comlinks and command channels tuned to: Count Dooku, Soulless One, his IG-100 MagnaGuards, and various commanders among the CIS droid army and navy
- modified Belbullab-22 starfighter (Soulless One)

Other Resources
- lair on Vassek containing his spare parts, additional IG-100’s, pets, traps, weapons, statues of himself, and trophies (including a secret trophy room exhibiting dozens of lightsabers)
- ~50,000,000 credit bank account with the Banking Clan on Muunilinst.


Capsule

Background: Grievous began life as a Kaleesh known as “Qymaen jai Sheelal,” and by the age of 22 he had amassed enough kills against the Kaleesh’s sworn enemies the Yam’rii (derisively referred to as the “Huk”, or “soulless bugs”) that he was revered as a demigod. He had been tutored by his father in the use of the Czerka Outland slugthrower rifle, and his skill with it was legendary.

After meeting the Kaleesh swordswoman Ronderu lij Kummar in a jungle after a seemingly prophetic dream, she taught him to use the Lig swords of their people, while Qymaen tutored her in the use of the slugthrower rifle. The two bonded as deeply as two Kaleesh warriors could bond, and were considered by some to be the manifestation of an ancient Kaleesh parable. However, Kummar was killed by the Yam’rii, and Qymaen decided that it was his curse to grieve her for his entire life, and the warrior calling himself “Grievous” was born.

Grievous and his elite warriors eventually drove the Yam’rii from Kalee, but this victory was not enough for him. He forced the species from their colony worlds. The savagely-beaten Yam’rii appealed to the Republic, which sent Jedi Knights to drive the bellicose Grievous and his army back to Kalee. However, this operation quickly became a massacre, and after the Jedi withdrew, the Kaleesh were left starving and financially insolvent behind a wall of Republic trade sanctions and other political penalties. Thousands died, and there was no end in sight.

Grievous, desperate to help his failing people, took a job as hired muscle for the InterGalactic Banking Clan. San Hill, the chairman of the IGBC, recognized in Grievous a particularly adroit “collections agent”. He agreed to take on Kalee’s colossal debt if only Grievous would agree to fill the position of corporate gun. Despite the ignominy of it all, Grievous took to his new job with gusto. He collected credits owed to the IGBC by virtually unassailable entities which had heretofore deferred or even downright refused payment.

Eventually, Grievous demanded the creation of “more intelligent” droids to augment his retinue. San Hill ordered the design and production of the then highly advanced IG-100 “MagnaGuards”, droids which Grievous immediately assessed as abysmal, mindless failures. He demanded that they be programmed to observe him sparring and that they be made capable of learning from it. They would eventually be armed with electrostaves, a weapon capable of clashing with lightsabers. This armament foreshadowed the intention of Grievous to take vengeance for the Republic’s treatment of his people by way of slaughtering the Jedi.

Eventually, a new incursion by the Yam’rii onto Kalee was ignored by the Republic. The furious Grievous left Muunilinst, ignoring his contract with the IGBC so that he could come to the defense of his people. After Grievous stormed off, San Hill and a cadre of involved parties, namely Poggle the Lesser and the Sith lords Count Dooku and Darth Sidious, convened a clandestine meeting so that they could discuss ways to control the irascible Grievous. The group eventually placed an ion bomb aboard Grievous’s shuttle Martyr, with Grievous’s seat rigged to eject him at an exact moment so that he would be severely injured—rather than outright killed—by the explosion.

After the blast was effected by Count Dooku, what was left of Grievous was found floating in the Jenuwaa Sea. He was still alive, but only barely. He was taken and suspended in a bacta tank, where the damage to his body was assessed and deemed fatal without mechanical intervention. The explosion had torn nearly all of his limbs off. Rumors persisted at the time that additional injuries were added to substantiate the claims of the IGBC of his insoluble brokenness.

As Grievous hung helplessly in his bacta tank, he was again approached by San Hill. The Muun came with a similar offer as before: If only the mangled Kaleesh would agree to return to his post as IGBC muscle, his body would be remade, this time out of metal, making him into a powerful cyborg. Knowing that a mechanical body would grant him an immense advantage in combat and sensing an unanticipated opportunity to rain vengeance upon the Republic, Grievous agreed to Hill’s offer on one condition: that his mind not be tampered with. Hill agreed.

Grievous was then transported to Geonosis, where Geonosian scientists implanted his brain, mouth parts, and eyes inside a metal Kaleesh mask, while his heart, lungs, and other essential organs were encased in a synthskin gut sac. The designers of Grievous’s new form took inspiration from Krath war droids. Despite San Hill agreeing that Grievous’s mind would not be altered during the procedure, the Geonosian scientists did so immoderately—at the behest of San Hill and Count Dooku—even going so far as to burn away unpleasant memories and decrease the inhibitions that suppressed his anger and rage.

After healing, his new form at first disgusted him. Despite these regrets, however, Grievous would gain the title of “General” when he was installed by Count Dooku as the Supreme Commander of the Confederacy of Independent Systems’ (CIS) droid armies. Grievous was initially insulted by this appointment and made it clear that since he was not a droid, he would not be referred to or talked about as such. References to him as a droid were met with his raw ire, and on multiple occasions he destroyed beings or droids who breached this sacred distinction.

The cyborg’s first appearance in live combat was at the Battle of First Geonosis in 22 BBY, the opening battle of the Clone Wars. Count Dooku loosed him in the Geonosian catacombs during the fight. He was charged with protecting the sequestered Separatist Council during the battle, killing any clones or Jedi who attempted to access them. He left none alive. Dooku was so impressed by the cyborg’s mastery of tactics, combat ability, and wicked temperament that he decided to teach Grievous how to fight with lightsabers. He taught him all the traditional forms of Jedi lightsaber combat, including the rarely-seen Makashi and Juyo forms, as well as some Sith dueling techniques unknown to the Jedi. His IG-100 MagnaGuards were again reprogrammed—this time to spar with the newly-minted cyborg duelist. These exercises increased both Grievous’s skill with his lightsabers as well as the skill of his IG-100’s with their electrostaves.

Before long, Grievous began accruing Jedi kills with regularity. As a patent narcissist, the cyborg took each slain Jedi’s lightsaber as a personal trophy. He would sometimes carry them in pockets in his cloak and used four of them in combat against other Jedi. He is known to have laughed about the irony of killing a Jedi with a lightsaber that had belonged to someone close to him. Although it is unknown just how many Jedi Grievous killed during the Clone Wars, the trophy room in his “lair” on Vassek displayed dozens of lightsabers alongside other surprisingly sentimental tokens of his innumerable victories.

Grievous eventually surpassed all other apprentices of Count Dooku. He became a Galaxy-class duelist and Dooku’s chief military executive. Although he was a scholar of combat and a brilliant tactician, he was also easily enraged, so he was not placed in full command of the CIS droid forces until the Chiss general Sev’rance Tann died, about one month after First Geonosis. Grievous’s initial confrontation with multiple Jedi occurred at the Battle of Hypori, three months after he assumed command. During this engagement, he slew Jedi Masters Daakman Barrek and K’Kruhk; crushed Jedi Knight Tarr Seirr; killed padawan learner Sha’a Gi; and also severely injured (and almost killed) Jedi High Council members Ki-Adi-Mundi and Aayla Secura.

Personality: Grievous may be best characterized as a narcissist and an extraordinarily dangerous being, and as such, he is not someone who makes friends or even holds basic conversations. He is driven by anger, self-righteousness, and vengeance. He still blames the Jedi for the deplorable conditions on Kalee following their unwanted intervention in the Huk war, and he continues to mourn for Ronderu lij Kummar.

His communications boil down to directives aimed at subordinates, menacing exhortations about impending death which he directs toward his enemies, and holographic discussions with Count Dooku (and sometimes Darth Sidious) whereby he either receives new orders or confabulates with them regarding strategy.

Grievous’s psyche is awash with anger, and as a result he has almost zero charisma. Most of his thoughts are rife with animus and fantasies of retribution. Additionally, he has an attitude of the old axiom “If you want something done right, do it yourself”. He is completely intolerant of the ineptitude of battle droids, even the more advanced models. His antipathy toward them is so strong that he retorts to Count Dooku that if he is expected to deliver military victories, he needs more advanced tools than battle droids.

A Quote: “Back away! I will deal with this Jedi slime myself.”

Relationships to other Characters: As stated in the “Personality” section above, Grievous is utterly disinclined to forge friendships or any other type of positive relationship with other beings.

He enjoys being the Supreme Commander of the CIS’s droid forces, and would have it no other way. He is known to exclaim on occasion that he is “the Commander of the greatest droid army the Galaxy has ever seen!”—an exclamation which indicates that he is suitably ensconced in his preferred profession.

The characters of the Star Wars universe with whom he communicates most often are: Count Dooku, Darth Sidious, Asajj Ventress, and a handful of others, mostly agents of his superiors and military commanders of the CIS. Grievous is not fond of Nemoidians, and he has a particular hatred for “the coward Nute Gunray”.

The CIS knows him as their most able commander. He is so effective in battle that the Republic views capturing or destroying Grievous as one of their highest priorities, as cutting the head off the beast would win the war. The blood of countless Jedi is on his duranium hands.
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Last edited by Error on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:51 am; edited 24 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No comments from anyone? Maaan...I was hoping at least someone would take the time to tell me: TL;DR.

The problem with Grievous is that his design is so unique that it's impossible to write him up (with special abilities/game notes/etc.) that reflect the both canon and verisimilitude in short form.

If you don't want to read the capsule at the bottom, fine; it's essentially just his story and a description of his character. But at least read from the top to the the capsule and tell me if I'm way off or not!
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
No comments from anyone? Maaan...I was hoping at least someone would take the time to tell me: TL;DR.

Replying "TL;DR" is a jerk move. It adds absolutely nothing to the discussion anyway so there is no point in replying just to say you didn't read what you are replying to.

Error wrote:
The problem with Grievous is that his design is so unique that it's impossible to write him up (with special abilities/game notes/etc.) that reflect the both canon and verisimilitude in short form.

Since he is such a such a unique character, may I ask why statting him out is important to you? Do you plan on running a Clone Wars campaign or adventure where the PCs may go up against Grievous? Even then, if you are maintaining film canon then the stats still aren't that important because he has plot protection. There's nothing wrong with you doing this - I'm just curious since you did this and hope for feedback.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Error wrote:
No comments from anyone? Maaan...I was hoping at least someone would take the time to tell me: TL;DR.

Replying "TL;DR" is a jerk move. It adds absolutely nothing to the discussion anyway so there is no point in replying just to say you didn't read what you are replying to.

Error wrote:
The problem with Grievous is that his design is so unique that it's impossible to write him up (with special abilities/game notes/etc.) that reflect the both canon and verisimilitude in short form.

Since he is such a such a unique character, may I ask why statting him out is important to you? Do you plan on running a Clone Wars campaign or adventure where the PCs may go up against Grievous? Even then, if you are maintaining film canon then the stats still aren't that important because he has plot protection. There's nothing wrong with you doing this - I'm just curious since you did this and hope for feedback.

I did it for two reasons, really: one, I really, really like the character, and he hasn't been statted out (TMK) since people started writing the RotS Galaxy Guide. As far as that goes, we all know that it's still in limbo, and what is done, the statting of heroes, villains, and other beings, all needs to be revisited because a huge block of continuity in the form of Star Wars: The Clone Wars (which also features Grievous prominently) has been introduced since then.

That actually segues into the second reason: that the stats might be useful in helping to complete the RotS Galaxy Guide, if for nothing else but the bio of the character (which, if used, will prolly require another paragraph or two about his participation in the Clone Wars).

The Grievous stat sheet on the Holocron site is fine...if you haven't seen TCW or read any of his "canonical" back story (he has two canonical back storiesa unique but not unheard of characteristic of SW characters). Plus, like I've said numerous times, his Lightsaber has to be able to get high enough to repeatedly clash with Jedi Masters like Kenobi and sometimes even win; I guess I wrote this version partially also to reconcile this personal gripe. This version of him is probably about three months before RotS.

I'm not sure I'd ever use Grievous in any campaign or even a single adventure. To get all D&D on you for a sec, he is "chaotic evil", and those kinds of characters are difficult and not fun to play.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, and I didn't put this in for lack of relevance, but have any of you fine folks ever wondered what he looks like without the mask? He gets it damaged and replaced in the TCW episode "Lair of Grievous" (good source of info on the character, btw...he kills Kit Fisto's former padawan for starters), but we don't see enough...only by a little wiggling do we get a sense of its width, which is less than the mask, obviously.

However, we can deduce things based on what we know. We know that he had his "eyes and brain moved to inside his mask" (The New Essential Guide to Droids et. al.), but nowhere does it say where his mouthparts* went. He obviously speaks with an organic mouth somewhere rather than from a speaker like a droid, and it sounds like it's at the end of a tube. That makes me wonder if his mouthparts are at the base of his neck, just out of sight, just above his gut sac. The only problem with this last theory is that when he coughs, he seems to indicate that the coughs bother his "throat" relative to his head, or right where you would expect a throat to be, relative to his "face". This can be seen right in RotS and sometimes in TCW. So then I started to think...rather than his voice sounding like it was echoing down a tube, it could be just reflecting off the back of his mask as he speaks? I think that might be it.

From that, we can now say he has his eyes, their orbital bones and skin around them (evident in RotS; also the skin around his eyes most likely stops just past where we see it), his brain (likely hidden under the part of his mask analogous to its cranium), and his mouthparts, all under the mask. The rest is very likely connections between organic pieces of flesh and metal. His mouth probably looks on both sides just like Twoface's injured face did in the film The Dark Knight, with small pistons hidden just within to operate a metal or bone jaw (think Luke's prosthetic hand). I think a bare-bone jaw with flesh, a few blackened teeth still hanging on, and pistons bolted to the bone would make for a pretty horrific looking face. I'd be chaotic evil on that day too!

* By "mouthparts" I mean like lips, cheeks, palates, tongue, teeth and throat even. Everything you need to speak Basic and to run the things you need to speak Basic.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaleesh

From my understanding all the stats are all done for the RotS GG and they just need fluff text (mostly character capsules) and final editing/formatting. But those stats probably don't take TCW into consideration. I think there may have even been a conscious decision by those working on it to not take the cartoon into much consideration because it is a GG based on the film alone. I haven't seen all of TCW and can't speak to Grievous in particular, but there are definitely several other aspects of the show that spit in the face of the live action films so I can't say I disagreed with the general sentiment to disregard TCW for the project.

Times definitely have changed since then as many of the users are no longer around and we have a lot of new guys here. I remember there was a ridiculously heated argument over Obi-Wan's stats. And here you're getting crickets about your stats/fluff but it is better than the opposite alternative.

Back then they also wanted to have the GG's narrator be that old Jedi grognard librarian lady just because she was a librarian. I thought that was silly because she was insistently incorrect that the Kamino system didn't exist when a Youngling figured out the system was there despite being gone from the archives, I can't imagine her escaping or surviving Anakin's assault on the Jedi Temple, and how the hell would she learn about most of the events of the story anyway? I suggested Obi-Wan be the narrator and it could be written in the form of a journal while he is contemplating life on the Tatooine. My suggestion was rejected by the project lead because he didn't see Obi-One being a writer. Oh well.

I think everything that was done for the RotS GG was put online for the taking so if you want to pick it up and do it your way there is nothing stopping you. It was an abandoned project so make it your own if you want.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Kaleesh

From my understanding all the stats are all done for the RotS GG and they just need fluff text (mostly character capsules) and final editing/formatting. But those stats probably don't take TCW into consideration. I think there may have even been a conscious decision by those working on it to not take the cartoon into much consideration because it is a GG based on the film alone. I haven't seen all of TCW and can't speak to Grievous in particular, but there are definitely several other aspects of the show that spit in the face of the live action films so I can't say I disagreed with the general sentiment to disregard TCW for the project.

The stats are only "done" in the sense that they were completed with all the information the writers/converters had in 2005-2006. They're not "done" in the sense that they are also informed by the other canonical material we have since been given. I earnestly assert that there is no logic in ignoring the show just because people don't want to go back and tweak a few stats or they don�t like the show. What I�m saying is that it doesn�t matter if some folks (yourself included) feel that some part of the show �spits in the face of the live-action films� (though I myself have never thought that way, though I did get a little pissed that Darth Maul was suddenly not dead for some reason...). That actually segues into this:

Using TCW to inform conversions does not change specific characters all that much. It does assist in clarification of which Force powers certain Jedi are known to have, which is helpful. Grievous is actually the only one I can think of that needed a complete overhaul, and even then, most of what is in my conversion above is exhibited in RotS anyway. The show actually gives us a wealth of information for the apparently hard-to-come-by bios. I can spend two paragraphs at least on Even Piell, for example, just talking about how he came to be imprisoned in �the Citadel� on Lola Sayu. It gives us pictures and close-ups of worlds we�ve only had the names of, and introduces countless senators, pirates, and bounty hunters (many of which are quite memorable, e.g. Cad Bane and Ziro the Hutt). It gives great insight into the personalities of Quinlan Vos, Adi Gallia, Aayla Secura, Luminara Unduli and her padawan Bariss Offee, Admiral Yularen, Hondo Ohnaka, and even Saw Gererra (he�s in the upcoming film Rogue One). It gives Boba Fett more back story. It�s a huge wealth of information and it is folly to ignore it because it makes things harder.

The problem with TCW is that it cannot be ignored if you want your GG: RotS to be truly accurate. This is because: a) if you don't use it, verisimilitude is lost (because you're not using all available information) and b) TCW is actually George Lucas-level canon, the highest it can be (same level as the movies, technically). This is because he himself (with Dave Filoni, mostly) conceived of many of the episodes and the multi-episode arcs and acted as producer on every single episode. Multitudes of ideas that did not make it into the 10 hours of live-action film we have instead made it into TCW. Also, the Star Wars: The Clone Wars film received a theatrical release. Not using the info is laziness. Just because we see a character use a power in TCW that we don't see in RotS doesn't mean that character lost that power (though that could be the case with certain individuals).

Obviously, TCW takes place in the three years between Episodes II and III. But the only major things that change are the character bios, and maybe 10% of the stats of each individual character might go up, down, or new skills might be added because we see the character use them. It really isn't that much more effort to use TCW as a springboard into "more accurate" characters in GG: RotS.

I'm not saying "make GG: RotS" so no one has to make "GG: TCW". These would obviously be two separate documents, and the latter would have to be two-three volumes just because of the sheer amount of (cumulative) time that six seasons of 22-minute GL-canon episodes creates.


Whill wrote:
Times definitely have changed since then as many of the users are no longer around and we have a lot of new guys here. I remember there was a ridiculously heated argument over Obi-Wan's stats. And here you're getting crickets about your stats/fluff but it is better than the opposite alternative.

Agreed. I'm glad I've stumbled upon this as it is, because picking up where the others have left off is my plan.

Whill wrote:
Back then they also wanted to have the GG's narrator be that old Jedi grognard librarian lady just because she was a librarian. I thought that was silly because she was insistently incorrect that the Kamino system didn't exist when a Youngling figured out the system was there despite being gone from the archives, I can't imagine her escaping or surviving Anakin's assault on the Jedi Temple, and how the hell would she learn about most of the events of the story anyway? I suggested Obi-Wan be the narrator and it could be written in the form of a journal while he is contemplating life on the Tatooine. My suggestion was rejected by the project lead because he didn't see Obi-One being a writer. Oh well.

Obi-Wan as "narrator" (journaler) seems perfect, and if I get my claws into this project (which I am gathering is everything but completely abandoned, so it shouldn�t be too hard to do), that will be how I do it. I also agree that Jocasta Nu could be an adequate narrator, but the thing about Kamino also bothers me.

Who cares if someone doesn't see OB1 as a writer? He had to be doing something there on Tatooine other than communing with the spirit of Qui-Gon Jinn, probably masturbating, and waiting for Luke to get old enough to be �A New Hope�.


Whill wrote:
I think everything that was done for the RotS GG was put online for the taking so if you want to pick it up and do it your way there is nothing stopping you. It was an abandoned project so make it your own if you want.

That's the plan. I found the stats for him in DropBox, along with all the other characters statted out for GG: RotS, and also the artwork. I used Grievous's existing conversions to inform this new conversion, as well as the TCW stuff and RotS.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, regarding the "what does Grievous look like under the mask?" question I posed above, here are some pictures of him hanging in a bacta tank after his shuttle was bombed, being visited by San Hill in said bacta tank (who appears in the midst of offering the fallen warlord his old job back, this time with the necessary cybernetics), a close-up of his eyes and the skin around them from RotS, and what appears to be him in a slightly different mask with some extra wires/hinges/etc. and what appear to be translucent blue tusks where his organic ones would be. The eyes closeup one from RotS I had to resize and so obviously some detail is lost, but it is still an excellent closeup. The last two I just found...the last one is from a "Star Wars Reimagined" page.

Like I said in the post a few posts above, we can deduce that the only organic things under his mask are his eyes (and the orbital bones around them, his brain (hidden under the "cranium" of his mask), and his mouthparts, which are probably a combination of organic pieces and metal.

LOL...anyone know of a truly talented artist out there who can draw this up for me? He's going to have to be disgusting. He'd have no nose, ears, cheekbones, forehead, and his lower and upper jaws are probably bare bone or even duranium which expand and contract because of small pistons (like in Luke's hand), with a handful of rotten teeth still hanging on. His Kaleesh tusks are long gone (as evidenced by this first picture), and are probably somewhere at the bottom of the Jenuwaa sea on Kalee, which is where his shuttle was when Count Dooku activated the ion bomb aboard it.















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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yikes, both re: what G might look like under his mask, as well as the work and detail devoted to the stats above.
Well done, sir. While I've been able to give the write-up only a cursory read, I think my lone constructive criticism may be:

Consider reflecting any lightsaber bonuses Grevious may receive from his knowledge of lightsaber forms in having him roll
tactics or scholar: lightsaber form X instead, rather than adding it into a specifically-stated bonus such as "he receives +X
if a Jedi opponent uses a given lightsaber form".

While Grevious manages to give Obi-Wan a run for his money (at least for a while) in both RotS and TCW,
Ventress is able to best him on Dathomir in TCW afterall. (Incidentally, where would you stat her?
Existing D6 write-ups of her are a little off, in my opinion.)

With G's spinning wrists granting him +1D+2, and with each arm beyond the first granting +2, he's already quite formidable without a
set bonus from his knowledge of lightsaber forms. IMHO getting a slight situational and/or opponent-dependent tactical advantage from
tactics or scholar is more in keeping with the general opposed roll D6 feel.

The stats all feel pretty accurate overall and otherwise however, and my suggestion is pretty minor. Again, nice in-depth work here!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telsij wrote:
Yikes, both re: what G might look like under his mask, as well as the work and detail devoted to the stats above.
Well done, sir. While I've been able to give the write-up only a cursory read, I think my lone constructive criticism may be:

Consider reflecting any lightsaber bonuses Grevious may receive from his knowledge of lightsaber forms in having him roll
tactics or scholar: lightsaber form X instead, rather than adding it into a specifically-stated bonus such as "he receives +X
if a Jedi opponent uses a given lightsaber form".

While Grevious manages to give Obi-Wan a run for his money (at least for a while) in both RotS and TCW,
Ventress is able to best him on Dathomir in TCW afterall. (Incidentally, where would you stat her?
Existing D6 write-ups of her are a little off, in my opinion.)

With G's spinning wrists granting him +1D+2, and with each arm beyond the first granting +2, he's already quite formidable without a
set bonus from his knowledge of lightsaber forms. IMHO getting a slight situational and/or opponent-dependent tactical advantage from
tactics or scholar is more in keeping with the general opposed roll D6 feel.

The stats all feel pretty accurate overall and otherwise however, and my suggestion is pretty minor. Again, nice in-depth work here!

Thanks for the compliments and for taking the time to read through it. I know it's long.

I had to get him into the 20+D range to be able to contend as he does with Jedi who have 8-12D in Lightsaber already with another 7-10D in their Sense skill. He kills a lot of Jedi (many are off-screen).

I have considered altering him the following way:

His skill Scholar: Jedi lightsaber forms could be something a GM might need him to roll to recognize a form being used by a given opponent. He would then only get the +2p bonus if he succeeded in recognizing what form, forms, or mix of forms he is facing. The general +2D against Force-using opponents reflects what he knows about Force-users using lightsabers as a whole, as taught to him by Count Dooku. I could just increase his Lightsaber by 2D and cut out the bonus against Force-users in general, because it doesn't make a lot of sense, and just retain the Scholar roll success granting him +2p (or even a full 1D).

Grievous, at least as he is portrayed in TCW, is somewhat of a coward (a fact which stands in stark contrast to the Clone Wars drawn cartoon and even RotS). If it even begins to look like his opponent is gaining an edge against him, he runs. He also likes to run when there are two or more Jedi Masters coming after him.

As for Ventress, she was also trained by Dooku, and never once was she injured by a lightsaber blade the whole run of TCW, even after facing down both Kenobi and Skywalker simultaenously at least once and then each of them individually half a dozen times each. She fought Savage Oppress and Count Dooku together, Darth Maul, etc. She is primarily an acrobat and I would have Acrobatics be her main skill after Lightsaber. I think you could safely put her Lightsaber between 8D and 12D and the same for her Acrobatics.

You know she ends up disenfranchised, right? Sidious decides to test Dooku's loyalty to him by telling Dooku to kill Ventress. He agrees and he leaves her to die, but she doesn't. She heads back to Dathomir and the Nightsisters set out to avenge Dooku's betrayal, but Dooku fends off both Ventress and two of her Nightsisters, all of whom were nearly invisible at the time, too. After the Nightsisters are mostly massacred by Grievous, and he kills Mother Talzin, Ventress ends up without a home or even an identity. She eventually even ends up working with Ahsoka in the Coruscant underworld because she has nothing else to do.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, poor Ventress. She was likely my favorite character to come out of the CTW. Was just curious about where you'd put her stat-wise, as well as re: Force skills. Her being abandoned, then setting off on her own at the end of TCW had a lot of potential, and was a nice direction / character arc, I thought.

While we're mildly off-topic, regarding Ventress (SPOILERS for others): I also wholeheartedly disapprove of the way Ventress was handled in her off-screen send off in the Dark Disciple novel. I am not a fan of Quinlin Vos and to see the two paired was disheartening. As a character, Ventress was far and above more interesting and complex than Vos' fan-service, hippie-hackeysack-look and badass routine, IMHO. Alas....

And re: so many other Jedi having that high of a lightsaber skill, I also find that to be unfortunate, despite being likely true. While I imagine that Grievous definitely also rubbed out his share of padawans and middling Knights, the fact that so many 8-12D range swordsmen are out there is just too much of a glut, again IMHO. If I had my druthers, re: how all those folks were statted, there would be far fewer than, say, 10 of those high-level duelists out there. 5-6 max. Alas, again!

And agreed on the TCW cowardice problem, though I think that extended to most of their recurring villains and was in part, a symptom of their tv-series formatting and the cliches that go with that, like the trope of the villain retreating every week, ala Megatron fleeing the Autobots at the end of every episode (except for in the TF 1986 movie) after his plan is even only mildly-thwarted.

Again, still an accurate depiction of Grevious here!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telsij wrote:
Indeed, poor Ventress. She was likely my favorite character to come out of the CTW. Was just curious about where you'd put her stat-wise, as well as re: Force skills. Her being abandoned, then setting off on her own at the end of TCW had a lot of potential, and was a nice direction / character arc, I thought.

While we're mildly off-topic, regarding Ventress (SPOILERS for others): I also wholeheartedly disapprove of the way Ventress was handled in her off-screen send off in the Dark Disciple novel. I am not a fan of Quinlin Vos and to see the two paired was disheartening. As a character, Ventress was far and above more interesting and complex than Vos' fan-service, hippie-hackeysack-look and badass routine, IMHO. Alas....

And re: so many other Jedi having that high of a lightsaber skill, I also find that to be unfortunate, despite being likely true. While I imagine that Grievous definitely also rubbed out his share of padawans and middling Knights, the fact that so many 8-12D range swordsmen are out there is just too much of a glut, again IMHO. If I had my druthers, re: how all those folks were statted, there would be far fewer than, say, 10 of those high-level duelists out there. 5-6 max. Alas, again!

And agreed on the TCW cowardice problem, though I think that extended to most of their recurring villains and was in part, a symptom of their tv-series formatting and the cliches that go with that, like the trope of the villain retreating every week, ala Megatron fleeing the Autobots at the end of every episode (except for in the TF 1986 movie) after his plan is even only mildly-thwarted.

Again, still an accurate depiction of Grevious here!

I haven't read ALL of the conversions people wrote of the RotS characters (or any TCW for that matter). So I can't tell you for certain how many Jedi Masters are pushing 20D with just their Lightsaber skill and their Sense dice from a "kept up" Lightsaber combat. Also, and I encourage anyone to correct me, just keeping up Lightsaber combat gives the user -2D to Lightsaber because of MAP's and whatnot.

The best eight duelists in the galaxy are, in my estimation, from the top down:

Mace Windu
Sheev Palpatine
Yoda
Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader
Count Dooku
Obi-Wan Kenobi
General Grievous
Asajj Ventress (debatable)

Other lists will undoubtedly be different, but the way I see it, these are the folks pushing 20+ dice. There may be more. But I agree with you, there probably should be no more than a certain number (I say 20 or 25) of individuals in the entire Galaxy during the Clone Wars era specifically who could get above 18D with everything accounted for. Most Jedi, with Lightsaber combat up, are between 10D and 14D. Some of the masters (Luminara Unduli, Even Piell, and Aayla Secura, for example), probably fall into this last range. Your average Jedi Knight probably is about 8D to 10D with Lightsaber combat up. Padawans may not even have that skill and are stuck at their Lightsaber skill as it is under DEX...so they're like 4D to 7D.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely agreed with your list of 8 having Force and saber skills in that range!
My 5 to 6 estimate was too conservative, but I think the names you've cited are about it for the "master" duelists.

(I do also think that the top 3 would best Grievious without too much issue)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telsij wrote:
Definitely agreed with your list of 8 having Force and saber skills in that range!
My 5 to 6 estimate was too conservative, but I think the names you've cited are about it for the "master" duelists.

(I do also think that the top 3 would best Grievious without too much issue)

Absolutely. His place on the list is very specific. Ventress might even technically be above him. I forgot to add Darth Maul...he's in there too. But not Savage Oppress.

As for Grievous, why they never sent Yoda or Mace to just dispatch the dude is beyond me. But I guess that's a TV show, and the fact that Grievous is really good at running away. In the TCW 'Lair of Grievous' he actually runs away after getting both legs cut off by swinging from the pipes in the ceiling.

The rivalry between Grievous and Kenobi in TCW makes the dialogue between Kenobi and Grievous in RotS at little more personal. And Obi-Wan's comment "So uncivilized." sounds like his TCW portrayal would and actually finalizes their rivalry a little for me in SWU.

I think I may have been unclear...I think there are probably 20-25 who have 20D between Lightsaber and Sense in a Clone Wars era SWU. There may have been thousands before and thousands may come after. Who knows. Plus in your own SWU you will have PC's attain such ludicrous levels as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot about Maul as well! The last 3 of them can duke it out for rank amongst themselves then.

IRC, in the upcoming Rebels S2 sourcebook, we placed Maul at lightsaber 8D+2,
lightsaber: double-bladed lightsaber 10D+2, with an avg of 9D in his 3 Force Skills.

And no worries, you were pretty clear, both about the skill split, the MAPs applied, etc.
I just think there are (or rather, that there should be) fewer than the 20-25
folks at those levels during that era.
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