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House-ruled Force powers: do you use them?
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Error
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:30 pm    Post subject: House-ruled Force powers: do you use them? Reply with quote

Do you use them? Do you like them? Do you find them balanced in respects to WEG's Force powers? Or are they more powerful? Less powerful? Do some of them, but not all, fit that description? Is it a split of some kind (as in: balanced/underpowered/overpowered)? How many (if any) would you say you have enjoyed playing with? Are some unfair or not fun to play with or against? How many are representative of the new abilities of the Jedi which were revealed to us in prequel canon?

You can see where this line of question is going. I want the low down on these "House-ruled Force Powers" I see over at the D6 Holocron. I want to know if it makes sense to bring them into the fold, so to speak, or if only some of them are worth it, I want to know beforehand. I want to know if any break the game or create obscene DC's somehow.

My "contempt prior to investigation" opinion is that anything I didn't see in the 8 films, 2 Clone Wars cartoons, and Rebels is probably not something I'm interested in bringing in, though I am making myself open to the idea on purpose in order to enrich my games.
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Last edited by Error on Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other than the new powers i have created (most of which have been posted here for vetting), its rare for me to add in other fan made powers without seeing them used elsewhere to gauge how they work/whether they are under or over powered..
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Ninja-Bear
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at Force Push. I see the logic in the build but the breakdown is more complex than I like. I did model a version for my game based on the D20 rules.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest problem I have with WEG Force powers is not so much the power but the actual game mechanics of said power. TK giving an auto Dark Side point if used as an attack bothers me.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja-Bear wrote:
The biggest problem I have with WEG Force powers is not so much the power but the actual game mechanics of said power. TK giving an auto Dark Side point if used as an attack bothers me.

Most of the "auto DSP" ones bother me. IMO, and in my games, I run it so that you only get a DSP from any Force power only if you're really being wicked with it. If someone is trying to kill you with a blaster, telekinetically slamming them against the ceiling to get them to stop shooting at you is self defense, not malevolence.

EDIT: This of course excludes the obvious ones like Force Lightning and Waves of Darkness.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja-Bear wrote:
The biggest problem I have with WEG Force powers is not so much the power but the actual game mechanics of said power. TK giving an auto Dark Side point if used as an attack bothers me.


The reason for that was, back when WEG was wrote, we only had the core 3 films (ANH, ESB and ROTJ) to go by, so there WAS a Distinction between good and evil powers.
THEN we get into the prequels and the EU novels, especially the NJO time frame stuff from when Vergree captured and started (IMO) Warping the mind of Jacen, which made the force just the force, the evil is in the heart of the user crap...
Not all of us buy into that, and neither did the designers when they wrote the game.

Error wrote:
Ninja-Bear wrote:
The biggest problem I have with WEG Force powers is not so much the power but the actual game mechanics of said power. TK giving an auto Dark Side point if used as an attack bothers me.

Most of the "auto DSP" ones bother me. IMO, and in my games, I run it so that you only get a DSP from any Force power only if you're really being wicked with it. If someone is trying to kill you with a blaster, telekinetically slamming them against the ceiling to get them to stop shooting at you is self defense, not malevolence.


So IYC as long as i am being defensive, i could force choke, force lightning, and force storm someone and not worry about DSPs??
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
Most of the "auto DSP" ones bother me. IMO, and in my games, I run it so that you only get a DSP from any Force power only if you're really being wicked with it. If someone is trying to kill you with a blaster, telekinetically slamming them against the ceiling to get them to stop shooting at you is self defense, not malevolence.

I'm ok with some powers being auto-DP like Force Lightning because only Sith use that (of course I can't imagine a character learning that power unless they are already on the Dark Side anyway). But I agree that Tk against a person shouldn't always be a DP. It should be circumstantial. Using Tk against non-living beings like droids shouldn't ever warrant a DP. Yoda used Tk on Palpatine who has Force Lightning and many possible weapons in his arsenal so there was an immediate threat. But just some guy shooting a blaster at you at range? You can Tk the blaster out of his hand to get him to stop shooting at you, so slamming him against the ceiling may be unnecessary Force violence.
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Ninja-Bear
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
Ninja-Bear wrote:
The biggest problem I have with WEG Force powers is not so much the power but the actual game mechanics of said power. TK giving an auto Dark Side point if used as an attack bothers me.

Most of the "auto DSP" ones bother me. IMO, and in my games, I run it so that you only get a DSP from any Force power only if you're really being wicked with it. If someone is trying to kill you with a blaster, telekinetically slamming them against the ceiling to get them to stop shooting at you is self defense, not malevolence.


Me too!
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't thinking about stuff like Force Lightning when I made the comment. I guess there are certain powers that do deserve DSP's just because we have only ever seen Dark Side characters use them.

Good catch Smile

I guess I would amend my original comment to say: "This of course excludes the obvious ones like Force Lightning and Waves of Darkness."
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
You can Tk the blaster out of his hand to get him to stop shooting at you, so slamming him against the ceiling may be unnecessary Force violence.


Or use TK to bend the blaster's barrel...

Error wrote:
I wasn't thinking about stuff like Force Lightning when I made the comment. I guess there are certain powers that do deserve DSP's just because we have only ever seen Dark Side characters use them.

Good catch Smile

I guess I would amend my original comment to say: "This of course excludes the obvious ones like Force Lightning and Waves of Darkness."


Then which of the other current 'auto DSP if used to harm" powers do you think need to be changed?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Whill wrote:
You can Tk the blaster out of his hand to get him to stop shooting at you, so slamming him against the ceiling may be unnecessary Force violence.


Or use TK to bend the blaster's barrel...

Sure, that, and any number of other things could be done too. But as GM you sort of get to decide whether a PC's actions are in a "malicious spirit". If they're not, then no DSP, except for some powers (like I said above) that we have only seen Dark Side characters use.

If one of my players incapacitates someone by using telekinesis to slam him against something rather than stopping to think "what would be the very best possible way to stop this guy without going overboard?" I'm still not gonna give him or her a DSP. Did Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi get DSP's in Episode 1 every time they used the Force to push and destroy battle droids rather than bending or TK'ing their blasters? I doubt it. And yes, before someone says it, droids count as beings because they can be PC's. You are not free from getting a DSP if you use Force Lightning on a droid.

However, that does lead me to the following point: usually giving out a single DSP for borderline evil telekinesis use is enough for most players to think a lot harder before using it.

It all depends on the causation. Defending oneself in particular I give a lot of leeway.

As for bending the barrel of a blaster...lol...let's say the blaster holder doesn't notice it because it was only a slight bend, and decides to fire his blaster and the thing blows up and kills him. Do you give the PC a DSP for that? His or her actions directly caused the death of that person. My point is, these things are always a matter of perspective.

garhkal wrote:
Error wrote:
I wasn't thinking about stuff like Force Lightning when I made the comment. I guess there are certain powers that do deserve DSP's just because we have only ever seen Dark Side characters use them.

Good catch Smile

I guess I would amend my original comment to say: "This of course excludes the obvious ones like Force Lightning and Waves of Darkness."


Then which of the other current 'auto DSP if used to harm" powers do you think need to be changed?

I'm not going through them one-by-one to answer that. But off the top of my head, out of the official WEG Force powers: Force Lightning, Waves of Darkness, Feed on Dark Side, Inflict Pain, Drain Life Energy. Obviously there are more but I'm not reading each and every one to answer this question.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine Force Lightning is like Bokt of hatred for TotJ. You actually tap into the Datk side to use it. Iirc, Force Choke in SW D 20 isn't an auto DS. Presumbly becauseLuke used it in RotJ on the Gamorrean guards.

Garkhal I agree as to why they defined TK as having a DS point however I disagree by watching the movie and a little.logic on how they came to thatpremise. Im.mean Iits ok to use a lightsaber to.kill someone in self defense but if you use TK instead then its evil?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Error what do you think.of the official TotJ powers that were only seen in the comic books? curious am I.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja-Bear wrote:
So Error what do you think.of the official TotJ powers that were only seen in the comic books? curious am I.

I am not as well-read in the RAW as you guys are. The Force powers originating on the left side on this page of the Holocron—are they a complete list of the WEG powers including the ones from the TotJ sourcebook?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
Ninja-Bear wrote:
So Error what do you think.of the official TotJ powers that were only seen in the comic books? curious am I.

I am not as well-read in the RAW as you guys are. The Force powers originating on the left side on this page of the Holocron—are they a complete list of the WEG powers including the ones from the TotJ sourcebook?


IIRC most are from offical books like ToTJ, the main book, Dark force rising, Dark empire..
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