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Error
Captain
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 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:21 am Post subject: Lodestar-class Star Dreadnought |
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Lodestar-class Star Dreadnought
Starboard View
Dorsal View
Craft: Lodestar, Beacon, Officiator, Exemplar, Pharos, Balefire, Conductor, Monitor, Attendant, Luminescent, Counselor, Marshal, Servitor, Lantern, Watcher, Radiant, Flare, Safeguard, Superintendent, etc.
Affiliation: Galactic Empire
Type: Lodestar-class Star Dreadnought
Scale: Capital
Length: 6212 meters
Skill: Capital ship piloting: Star Dreadnought
Crew: 182,220 (4,000 gunners [including auxiliaries]); 38,500 (skeleton)
Crew Skill: Astrogation 4D, capital ship gunnery 7D, starship gunnery 6D, capital ship piloting 7D, capital ship shields 5D, sensors 5D+1
Passengers: 25,000 (troops; capacity is 30,000), 3,000 (other)
Cargo Capacity: 200,000 metric tons
Consumables: 8 years
Hyperdrive Multiplier: 1.5x
Hyperdrive Backup: 15x
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverability: 1D+2
Space: 6
Hull: 11D+1
Shields: 8D+1
Sensors:
Passive 100/2D
Scan 200/4D
Search 400/5D+1
Focus 5/7D+2
Weapons:
150 Turbolaser Batteries
Fire Arc: 60 front, 40 right, 40 left, 10 back
Crew: 2 (300)
Skill: Capital ship gunnery
Fire Control: 1D
Space Range: 3-15/35/75
Atmosphere Range: 6-30/70/150 km
Damage: 7D capital
200 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries
Fire Arc: 80 front, 50 right, 50 left, 20 back
Crew: 2 (400)
Skill: Capital ship gunnery
Fire Control: 0D
Space Range: 5-20/40/60
Atmosphere Range: 10-20/80/120 km
Damage: 10D capital
100 Heavy Ion Cannons
Fire Arc: 50 front, 25 right, 25 left
Crew: 2 (200)
Skill: Capital ship gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Space Range: 1-10/25/50
Atmosphere Range: 2-50/50/100 km
Damage: 4D+2 (ionization)
24 Tractor Beam Projectors
Fire Arc: 8 front, 6 right, 6 left, 4 back
Crew: 2 (48 )
Skill: Capital ship gunnery
Fire Control: 4D+2
Space Range: 1-5/15/30
Atmosphere Range: 2-10/30/60 km
Damage: 8D capital
80 Point-Defense Laser Cannons
Fire Arc: 20 in each arc
Crew: 1 (80)
Scale: Starfighter
Skill: Starship gunnery
Fire Control: 4D
Space Range: 1-3/12/25
Atmosphere Range: 100-300/1.2/2.5 km
Damage: 4D starfighter, 2D capital
180 Concussion Missile Tubes
Fire Arc: 40 in each arc
Crew: 1 (180)
Scale: Capital
Skill: Capital ship gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: 2-5/30/60
Atmosphere Range: 4-24/60/120 km
i]Damage:[/i] 9D capital
24 Multi-purpose Warhead Launchers
Fire Arc: 6 in each arc
Crew: 3 (72)
Scale: Starfighter
Skill: Starship gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Space Range: Warhead specific.*
Atmosphere Range: Warhead specific.*
Damage: Warhead specific.*
* The following is a list of the warheads a typical Lodestar-class craft carries in inventory. Many of the smaller missiles and torpedoes tend to be equipped to starfighter and similar craft, while the Lodestar itself would tend to launch the heavier ordnance, namely the proton rockets, ion torpedoes, and space bombs. However, any craft aboard a Lodestar with a proton torpedo launcher is capable of launching any of the listed warheads (with the exception of the Shield-Buster Torpedo, which must be mounted to larger craft, and on anything smaller than a medium freighter reduces that craft’s Maneuverability by 1D):
- Standard and Advanced Concussion Missiles
- Standard and Advanced Proton Torpedoes
- Proton Rockets
- Space Bombs
- Ion and Shield-Buster Torpedoes
- Sensor Probes/Buoys
- Space Mines
Small Craft Complement:
- 72 space superiority starfighters (exact models depend on era)
- 24 long-range assault craft/bombers (in some configurations, these are simply more space superiority starfighters)
- 12 long-range scout ships (same as above)
- 24 assault shuttles
- 18 heavy assault landing craft
- 8 shuttles
- 6 personnel carriers
- 4 cargo haulers
- 4 minelayers
- 6 tugs
- 500 deep space probes (each containing one probe droid)
- 2 Y-70 Colossus dropships
- 2 prefabricated garrison bases
- 80 heavy walkers—20 AT-AT's, 36 AT-ST's, 24 AT-PT's
- Various speeder bikes, repulsorlifts, and other ground vehicles
Usage: The Lodestar-class Star Dreadnought was created first and foremost to be a command ship that would we well-armored and well-armed, and could meet and exceed every eventuality. It featured two large reactor cores rather than the standard one, so it could produce enough power for its massive armament and its shields. Its secondary design elements also made it part battle cruiser and part support carrier. Its armament spoke for itself in its efficacy versus other capital ships, though the class was also able to deal with starfighters handily as well through the use of guided warhead launchers and point-defense laser cannons. It also carried supplies and other materials to restock or repair other Imperial ships, and was typically the “flagship” of any convoy it was in unless a larger or more senior ship was present.
Typically, a Lodestar-class ship was the command ship for small fleets, particularly sector fleets and specially-convened strike or battle groups. Prior to the introduction of other larger Star Dreadnoughts, a single Lodestar-class craft's typical role was to support and defend other capital ships in its group, while also joining the fray directly by launching starfighters and pounding enemy capital ships with its heavy weapons. Depending on era, a Lodestar-class craft may have been accompanied by Venator, Secutor, Victory I/II, or Imperial I/II-class star destroyers, Dreadnaught, Imperial I/II, EF76 Nebulon-B, Carrack and Lancer-class frigates and cruisers, and sometimes other star dreadnoughts or carriers such as the Mandator-I/II and Ton-Falk-classes. Each Lodestar’s entourage was unique depending on the needs of Imperial Star Fleet Command. However it tended to contain other capital ships, and also consisted of an-ever changing rotation of smaller craft like corvettes, freighters, and support ships such as hospital craft or gunships.
A moderately-powered battle group or sector fleet might look like this:
- 1 Lodestar-class Star Dreadnought
- 3-5 Imperial I/II Star Destroyers
- 8-12 other destroyers, cruisers, frigates and/or corvettes
- 1 hospital ship
- 1 interdictor
Other attendant craft would include gunships, converted freighters, and scout craft.
Capsule: This ship is of the “star destroyer” lineage, and is basically a Rendili StarDrives execution of a Kuat Drive Yards design, which was updated and altered by Imperial engineers and Rendili’s design department. KDY had designed but ultimately elected not to produce the expensive, heavily armed and armored craft, and had instead sold the schematics, design files, and the rights to produce it to Rendili in 19 BBY. Rendili in turn spent six months upgrading and adding their own technology to the design, and then marketed it to the Empire as the ultimate in self-sufficient command ships and the premier Dreadnought in a post-Mandator-II galaxy. After the Empire’s engineers had seen the schematics and made their own alterations, an agreement was reached where Rendili would produce 12 ships for the Empire, to be commissioned by the end of 15 BBY.
One of the most attractive things to the Empire about the Lodestar class was its ability to command and coordinate the movements and targets of up to 48 other allied capital ships. This bandwidth for command made multi-ship coordination extremely easy for the Lodestar’s command. An entire section of the bridge was dedicated to battle logistics and multi-ship coordination, and specially-trained Imperial naval combat engineers crewed the 100+ person ship-to-ship coordination department. Something else attractive to Imperial Star Fleet Command was the class’s armament. The craft was nearly unbeatable in single combat. In fact, simulations showed that it would take the equivalent of 22-37 Victory II-class craft to overwhelm one Lodestar-class craft in combat. Its multi-purpose warhead launchers also gave it an edge over enemy starfighters.
As a “star destroyer” the Lodestar-class had the same arrowhead or dagger-point shape shared by most ships of its lineage. It had a length-to-width ratio somewhere between that of the Imperial I and Executor classes. The class was about 6.2 kilometers in length and was heavily armored, possessing double-thick armor over much of its hull. When it was being revised, the Imperial engineers added maneuvering thrusters to improve the massive craft’s agility and thereby improve its efficacy on the battlefield.
All Lodestar-class craft shared a top-down profile similar to Executor-class ships, except the aft protuberance on an Executor (the arrowhead’s “base” or “neck”), which overhung the engine banks, was more truncated on a Lodestar. Furthermore, a typical Lodestar shared another characteristic of the Executor class in that it also had a “city-like” structure on top of it. This made its dorsal superstructure much more irregular in appearance except for the smooth margins between this "city" and the craft's edges.*
* Compare the dorsal view of an Executor-class craft for an example of this “city-like” dorsal superstructure.
Since the cargo area of Lodestar-class ships was so huge, there was an ongoing joke among Imperial sailors that KDY, RSD, and the Empire had designed a hollow megafortress with engines. Its cargo area was indeed very large, and this extra space was used to store extra starfighters and support craft, consumables, parts, materials, tools, droids, ordnance, and even a spare reactor core. Generally, a Lodestar-class craft had enough of these items on hand to perform rudimentary repairs and/or basic restockings of other ships in its group. This included the lending of personnel in some situations.
On the ventral side of a Lodestar-class craft, there was a rectangle-shaped docking bay about one third of the way back from the craft’s bow. This was the craft’s main docking bay and was flanked on either side towards the aft of the ship by two other smaller bays on the craft's sides. These two smaller bays were mainly for launching starfighters, and a Lodestar was capable of deploying its entire starfighter complement in under a minute. These bays were also for launching small-to medium scale ships, such as shuttles, small freighters, scout craft, gunships, assault shuttles, and personnel carriers.
The main docking bay was large enough to fit one of the 600-meter Dreadnaught-class cruisers. This bay was made exceptionally large on purpose so that it could fit just such larger ships. It also served as a launch bay for the Loderstar’s larger support ships, such as cargo haulers or minelayers. It was also capable of docking with friendly ships for various reasons. Also, if required, it was capable of boarding incapacitated hostile ships (craft too large to be brought into the main docking bay were boarded via assault shuttles, gunboats, and/or personnel carriers). This main bay was also used for launching the Y-70 Colossus dropships, which were the craft a Lodestar-class ship used to land surface vehicles such as walkers, speeders, tanks, other surface vehicles, or one of its prefabricated bases.
Later in its run (circa 8-7 BBY), as both resistance to the Empire intensified and new models of Star Dreadnoughts entered the field, Imperial Star Fleet Command entertained an idea that Lodestar-class craft could be repurposed as strike carriers. This turned out to be true, and they excelled at it. First, each had to be cleared of most of its extra consumables, ground vehicles, parts, tools, and most non-starfighter support craft, and then the cleared space had to be filled up again with starfighters and ordnance. This produced completely self-contained hit-and-run units—each Lodestar could jump to within kilometers of its target, pour starfighters, other ships, and warheads into it, and once all ordnance was loosed, the craft which could jump out did, while Command on the Lodestar would allocate tractor beams to bring in the rest. The Lodestar itself would then jump out maybe ninety seconds later, after scanning for disabled friendlies and doing what they could to bring any aboard. The whole operation would take less than fifteen minutes and would leave most targets completely incapacitated. Command would generally leave probes behind to ascertain the true depth of the damage, and if a second strike was needed, the same craft could be ready for another sortie in less than three hours.
Lodestar-class craft were included in battle groupings and strike forces throughout their entire commissions. However, most of these groupings were together for less than two years (many of them were convened for a single strike or battle and then disbanded), as no Imperial capital ship was ever safe from being shuffled around by Imperial Star Fleet Command. In fact, ISFC was so infamous for doing this on an ad hoc basis that Imperial ship captains coined the axiom “Never get any closer than you have to.” (This is a double entendre because it refers both to a) bringing one’s ship only close enough to an enemy ship to assure one’s fire is maximally damaging to them, and b) not getting too close to the crews of other Imperial ships, as they [or you] were liable to be reassigned at any time.)
Only 39 Lodestar-class craft were ever built or commissioned. Another wave of six ships was canceled when the attention of Imperial Star Fleet Command turned to the Executor-class Star Dreadnought instead. The decision was made in 6 BBY to decommission all craft of the Lodestar class to make room and recycle material for Executors. After each Lodestar had been mothballed and scrapped, the recyclable elements from each ship were used to both lay down the keels of the first few Executor-class ships and to help armor them. All personnel from the 39 Lodestars were transferred to new assignments, many of them to the gradually-inflating assignment of the first Death Star, or to the new Executor-class ships as they slowly took shape in the Imperial shipyards.
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The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.
Last edited by Error on Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:21 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Sutehp
Commodore
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:45 am Post subject: |
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They're not very economical or practical if their active duty run was only 7 years....
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Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Interesting. This is an original ship of your own creation, yes? May I ask what your motivation was to make an original dreadnaught? Do you have a campaign set during 12-5 BBY? |
They are indeed my own creation. I created them both for any campaigns or adventures that might happen in that era and also for some fanfic I am writing. I have designed them to be command ships of small sector fleets. The typical convoy for a Blackguard in its command ship role is 2-4 Star Destroyers—typically Victory I or Victory II class (the latter near the end of the Blackguard class's run), 1-2 frigates to deal with enemy fighters, sometimes a singleton interdictor cruiser, 1-2 Dreadnaught class heavy cruisers, and maybe 2-3 corvette-scale escorts for scouting purposes and/or raiding. It is important to remember that the galaxy was mostly peaceful under the rule of the Empire (excluding the occasional planetary uprising) until the Rebel Alliance became a thing, so there wasn't a need for truly huge Star Dreadnoughts during the time of the Blackguard.
| Sutehp wrote: | | They're not very economical or practical if their active duty run was only 7 years.... |
Probably true. If we want to go into greater detail about it, building and crewing a ship of that size during a period of relatively small and isolated conflicts could be argued to be excessive and wasteful, though the Emperor was infamous for spending massive amounts of credits on black projects like the Death Stars and other things. Hence the repurposing of the materials to build ships of the Executor class once enough uprisings occurred and war with the Rebel Alliance became inevitable in about 5-4 BBY (confer the events of Star Wars: Rebels and related media). I should expand it to like 14 BBY to 4 BBY though, you're right. I'll do that right now.
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I drew up a very rudimentary plan for the ship in MS paint. Took all day but I like it.
http://i.imgur.com/cFa7JKd.png
http://i.imgur.com/tWAvxRE.png
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Sutehp
Commodore
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Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that drawing looks like alot of work went into it. Kudos, Error.
Also, I just got to reading the capsule on your Blackguard. A couple things I noticed that rankled me a bit.
Brace yourself, Error, because I'm about to go full grammar nazi mode (painful but necessary). If you have any protective gear or armor lying about your home, please put them on now. 
To wit:
1) "[the Blackguard] has a similar arrowhead or dagger-point shape—somewhere between the Bellator and Executor classes" How is the Blackguard "between" the Bellator and the Executor when you're talking about geometrical shapes, not spacing nor numerical order?
2) WTH is an "aft process?" A process is "a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end." How is that involved in describing the aft part of a ship?
3) "Confer the dorsal view of an Executor-class craft for a larger example of the Blackguard class's "city-like" dorsal superstructure." As I am in full grammar nazi mode here, I must note that capsules and descriptions in most Star Wars ship descriptions don't use the command form to tell the reader to do something; they're usually just straight descriptions. Also, "confer" is the wrong word to use here. "To confer" means to either "grant or bestow a benefit" or to "have a discussion," neither meaning of which is applicable here. I think you confused "confer" and "compare." 
4) "...there is a rectangle-shaped main docking bay about two thirds of the way back from the craft's nose." You can use the word "aft" instead of "back" here. Furthermore, airplanes have noses. Ships (and by extension spaceships) have bows (pronounced /ˈbaʊ/, not /bō/ by the way).
And, concerning that last point, if I see any of you smegheads start putting bow ties on the fronts of your ship pics just to taunt me, I'm gonna puke. Seriously, I'll puke. It could get messy. I might have to buy a brand new bucket just for this. I was thinking of a hot pink bucket with rhinestones spelling out the words "Rancor Pit Bucket: Please Use Only for Forum-related Gastrointestinal Emergencies." What do you guys think? 
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Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: |
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My main issue is that "Blackguard" breaks with the naming conventions of KDY SD classes: Venator, Acclamator, Tector, Praetor, Procurator, Imperator, Bellator, Executor...
And Blackguard.
One of these things is not like the other...
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Zarn
Force Spirit
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Legatus-class? Unfortunately, Lictor was already taken. I doubt the connotations to 'blackguard' are something that the Empire would want to emphasize. |
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ForbinProject
Commander
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | My main issue is that "Blackguard" breaks with the naming conventions of KDY SD classes: Venator, Acclamator, Tector, Praetor, Procurator, Imperator, Bellator, Executor...
And Blackguard.
One of these things is not like the other... |
BBY yeah you have a valid point there. If the ship was built after Endor by or for an Imperial War Lord then naming conventions are whatever the hell the individual war lord wants. |
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | Yeah, that drawing looks like alot of work went into it. Kudos, Error.
Also, I just got to reading the capsule on your Blackguard. A couple things I noticed that rankled me a bit.
Brace yourself, Error, because I'm about to go full grammar nazi mode (painful but necessary). If you have any protective gear or armor lying about your home, please put them on now.
To wit:
1) "[the Blackguard] has a similar arrowhead or dagger-point shape—somewhere between the Bellator and Executor classes" How is the Blackguard "between" the Bellator and the Executor when you're talking about geometrical shapes, not spacing nor numerical order?
2) WTH is an "aft process?" A process is "a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end." How is that involved in describing the aft part of a ship?
3) "Confer the dorsal view of an Executor-class craft for a larger example of the Blackguard class's "city-like" dorsal superstructure." As I am in full grammar nazi mode here, I must note that capsules and descriptions in most Star Wars ship descriptions don't use the command form to tell the reader to do something; they're usually just straight descriptions. Also, "confer" is the wrong word to use here. "To confer" means to either "grant or bestow a benefit" or to "have a discussion," neither meaning of which is applicable here. I think you confused "confer" and "compare."
4) "...there is a rectangle-shaped main docking bay about two thirds of the way back from the craft's nose." You can use the word "aft" instead of "back" here. Furthermore, airplanes have noses. Ships (and by extension spaceships) have bows (pronounced /ˈbaʊ/, not /bō/ by the way).
And, concerning that last point, if I see any of you smegheads start putting bow ties on the fronts of your ship pics just to taunt me, I'm gonna puke. Seriously, I'll puke. It could get messy. I might have to buy a brand new bucket just for this. I was thinking of a hot pink bucket with rhinestones spelling out the words "Rancor Pit Bucket: Please Use Only for Forum-related Gastrointestinal Emergencies." What do you guys think? |
I would be the one bracing myself if I were you when it comes to this. You've just entered a battle of definitions (you call it "grammar") with a former copy editor and technical manual editor ;D
1. Viewed from above, an Executor is waaay longer than it is wide. It is more dagger-shaped than arrowhead-shaped, in fact. The Bellator is more the shape of a traditional Star Destroyer. So in terms of shape, yes, it's between the two. Not quite sure how to make that more understandable. I suppose I could have put three or four more sentences there describing exactly what was meant (down to the smallest detail), but I figure this board is full of smart people who can figure out what was meant. The most I'll concede on this one is that it is somewhat vague.
2. The word "process" has between five and ten definitions. The one I used to describe the aft protuberance of the Executor class (as a scientist, I tend to port words a lot) is "process" as "an appendage or outgrowth," which can also be used to describe any protuberance really. Your fingers are processes stemming from your hands, for example. Granted, it is a biological term, but I am seeing it more and more in other science writing.
3. The word confer comes from science writing as well but is not restricted to it. The definition used in this sense is "have discussions; exchange opinions." Poli-sci and other academic books many times have "confer Smith, 1980A" for example. Directing a reader to confer to something (also written "cf.") in practice means "take a look at this other similar thing." You're correct in that it's close to compare, but it's not the word used in the academic world for such things and "compare" is not the word I use unless it is specifically called for. An example from biology (though is a bit arcane) would be an organism called Lepomis sp. cf. gibbosus. This means "an unknown species in the genus Lepomis which is similar enough to L. gibbosus that the reader should take a look at L. gibbosus." Use compare if you like; "confer X" works for me and will continue to do so.
4. As for this, you can feel free to rewrite it for me the way YOU want it. I can call the bow of a ship a point, the forecastle, its nose, or even its *sshole if I want. The crux of the matter is like this: You know exactly what I meant, even if the terminology is sloppy.
Also, you're not going to meet someone who has had more professional training in syntax and grammar than I. However, I restrain myself from correcting others, because as long as I know what was meant, the communication was successful. Even if they can't spell or if they comma splice or if they run on. For me, the form the information takes is irrelevant as long as the information arrives intact. Unless we are talking large details being misunderstood because of grammatical or spelling errors, that is.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | | Legatus-class? Unfortunately, Lictor was already taken. I doubt the connotations to 'blackguard' are something that the Empire would want to emphasize. |
Or just take the WEG Super-Class profile (which is markedly different from the Executor's profile) and call it the Superior-Class, thus maintaining as much of the WEG lineage as possible while leaving room for a full-up version of the Executor.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Sutehp
Commodore
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | I would be the one bracing myself if I were you when it comes to this. You've just entered a battle of definitions (you call it "grammar") with a former copy editor and technical manual editor ;D
1. Viewed from above, an Executor is waaay longer than it is wide. It is more dagger-shaped than arrowhead-shaped, in fact. The Bellator is more the shape of a traditional Star Destroyer. So in terms of shape, yes, it's between the two. Not quite sure how to make that more understandable. I suppose I could have put three or four more sentences there describing exactly what was meant (down to the smallest detail), but I figure this board is full of smart people who can figure out what was meant. The most I'll concede on this one is that it is somewhat vague. |
| Quote: | be·tween
bəˈtwēn/
preposition
preposition: between; preposition: bet.
1.
at, into, or across the space separating (two objects or regions).
"the border between Mexico and the United States"
synonyms: in the space separating, in the middle of, with one on either side; More
amid, amidst;
archaicbetwixt
"Philip stood between his parents"
2.
in the period separating (two points in time).
"they snack between meals"
3.
in the interval separating (two points on a scale).
"a man aged between 18 and 30"
4.
indicating a connection or relationship involving two or more parties.
"the relationship between Pauline and Chris"
synonyms: connecting, linking, joining; More
uniting, allying;
among
"the bond between Amy and her mother"
with reference to a collision or conflict.
"a collision in midair between two light aircraft above Geneva"
with reference to a choice or differentiation involving two or more things being considered together.
"if you have to choose between two or three different options"
5.
by combining the resources or actions of (two or more people or other entities).
"we have created something between us"
shared by (two or more people or things).
"they had drunk between them a bottle of Chianti"
adverb
adverb: between; adverb: bet.
1.
in or along the space separating two objects or regions.
"layers of paper with tar in between"
2.
in the period separating two points in time.
"sets of exercises with no rest in between" |
At no point does the definition of "between" refer to geometrical shapes. How would one triangle among three differently shaped triangles be considered "between" the other two? It might be narrower than one and broader that the other, but that hardly qualifies as "between."
| Error wrote: | | 2. The word "process" has between five and ten definitions. The one I used to describe the aft protuberance of the Executor class (as a scientist, I tend to port words a lot) is "process" as "an appendage or outgrowth," which can also be used to describe any protuberance really. Your fingers are processes stemming from your hands, for example. Granted, it is a biological term, but I am seeing it more and more in other science writing. |
| Quote: | proc·ess1
ˈpräˌses,ˈprōˌses/
noun
noun: process; plural noun: processes
1.
a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end.
"military operations could jeopardize the peace process"
synonyms: procedure, operation, action, activity, exercise, affair, business, job, task, undertaking
"investigation is a long process"
a natural or involuntary series of changes.
"the aging process"
a systematic series of mechanized or chemical operations that are performed in order to produce or manufacture something.
"the modern block printer needs to accommodate all the traditional factory processes in one shop"
synonyms: method, system, technique, means, practice, way, approach, methodology
"a new canning process"
a series of interdependent operations carried out by computer.
Printing
relating to or denoting printing using ink in three colors (cyan, magenta, and yellow) and black to produce a complete range of color.
modifier noun: process
"process inks"
2.
Law
a summons or writ requiring a person to appear in court.
3.
BiologyAnatomy
a natural appendage or outgrowth on or in an organism, such as a protuberance on a bone.
verb
verb: process; 3rd person present: processes; past tense: processed; past participle: processed; gerund or present participle: processing
1.
perform a series of mechanical or chemical operations on (something) in order to change or preserve it.
"the various stages in processing the wool"
operate on (computer data) by means of a program.
deal with (someone) using an official and established procedure.
"the immigration authorities who processed him"
synonyms: deal with, attend to, see to, sort out, handle, take care of, action
"applications are processed rapidly"
another term for conk3. |
| Error, repeated for emphasis wrote: | | Granted, it is a biological term, but I am seeing it more and more in other science writing. |
It's precisely that it's a biological definition that I have an issue with it. We're talking about shipbuilding, which is by definition an artificial process, and therefore not biological. As for seeing it "more and more" in science writing, I didn't see it in the dictionary and that's the common lodestone for a definition of a word.
| Error wrote: | | 3. The word confer comes from science writing as well but is not restricted to it. The definition used in this sense is "have discussions; exchange opinions." Poli-sci and other academic books many times have "confer Smith, 1980A" for example. Directing a reader to confer to something (also written "cf.") in practice means "take a look at this other similar thing." You're correct in that it's close to compare, but it's not the word used in the academic world for such things and "compare" is not the word I use unless it is specifically called for. An example from biology (though is a bit arcane) would be an organism called Lepomis sp. cf. gibbosus. This means "an unknown species in the genus Lepomis which is similar enough to L. gibbosus that the reader should take a look at L. gibbosus." Use compare if you like; "confer X" works for me and will continue to do so. |
There's nothing stopping you from using "confer" in this sense if you like, but again, there nothing in the textbook definition referring to that. If the word "confer" has the meaning in the scientific community that you says it means, there's no way for me to know that definition if I'm not part of that community and it's also not found in the dictionary. If I have no way to find out your frame of reference defining the word "confer," how can it be a surprise that I'm going to misunderstand you when you use the word "confer?"
| Error wrote: | 4. As for this, you can feel free to rewrite it for me the way YOU want it. I can call the bow of a ship a point, the forecastle, its nose, or even its *sshole if I want. The crux of the matter is like this: You know exactly what I meant, even if the terminology is sloppy.
Also, you're not going to meet someone who has had more professional training in syntax and grammar than I. However, I restrain myself from correcting others, because as long as I know what was meant, the communication was successful. Even if they can't spell or if they comma splice or if they run on. For me, the form the information takes is irrelevant as long as the information arrives intact. Unless we are talking large details being misunderstood because of grammatical or spelling errors, that is. |
Error, if you're going to make up your own definitions, then by all means, do so. But you don't get to insist on the correctness of your definitions when you deliberately made them different from what's in the dictionary. You don't get to say "I can make up my own words if I want, but they're still correct!" If your "terminology is sloppy" by your own admission, then people are going to get confused about what you meant to say if you're not using the same definitions of words that they use. That's the basic rule of communication: In order to communicate, there has to be a common frame of reference that all parties understand. That can't happen if a word doesn't mean the same thing to all people.
Also, just to make sure that there are no hard feelings, I want to state that my emoticons and my reference to the hot pink rhinestone encrusted vomit bucket in my previous post was a signal (perhaps that I made too easily overlooked) that I wasn't trying to be too serious in my criticisms of your write-up, Error. I didn't want to turn this into a flame war. I just wanted to suggest some honest corrections to clarify things in your write-up that confused me because of your different frame of reference regarding some of the words you used. No insults or denigrations of your character were implied nor intended.
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Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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Sutehp
Commodore
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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And here I was thinking that someone might lock this thread. 
EDIT: WOOT! 250th post! I'm liking my new Commander badge. Shiny!
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Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Oh, trust me, it takes a lot more than that to get a thread locked around here. There will be written warnings and the like first. I know from experience, as the proud owner of one of the Pit's extremely rare one-week suspensions.
Congrats on your promotion.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10293
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:08 am Post subject: |
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<dusts off the Moderator cloak and puts on>
| Sutehp wrote: | | I was thinking that someone might lock this thread. |
Sutehp, if your goal was just to help Error with word and phrasing choices and provide alternatives, you could have done just that and Error could have agreed, disagreed and defended his choices. But continuing to argue beyond his response to your initial attempt to help is going full-on "grammar nazi" which is really not needed on a Star Wars RPG forum.
Now I can sympathize to a very small extent. For example, when someone spells something wrong in the title of a thread that could lead to misunderstanding of what the thread is about or foil attempts to find it in a search, I do sometimes edit the title.
For the most part, we are just sharing our SW/RPG ideas here with each other and anyone else may either find it useful or not. Most of us have a decent enough command of the English language to decipher the meanings of what the rest of us post. You knew exactly everthing Error meant.
| Sutehp wrote: | | A couple things I noticed that rankled me... |
If these "grammar nazi" offenses are something that everyone else can ignore without commenting but you are "rankled" by them, it puts a possible altruistic purpose of your criticisms into suspicion. May I please suggest you just try not to be irritated and resentful of non-essential details of a homebrew starship, such as the grammar and word choice used in describing it? If you must be irritated and resentful about word choice, may I please ask you to consider not acting on it? If you do offer rewording suggestions, maybe just put it out there and leave it at that? Let people take it or leave it. Once you reply again, suddenly it is not about the Star Wars game and we're arguing about the language used.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Oh, trust me, it takes a lot more than that to get a thread locked around here. There will be written warnings and the like first. |
Actually that's not correct. Cheshire recently just locked another thread without warning. Locking a thread is not punitive towards any person or persons like a suspension would be. Locking a thread is neutral to all and is done for the sake of the board as a whole. For the recent thread lock, Cheshire documented it was just to let everyone cool off about it, so it may only be temporary.
Since I took the time to type this, let's just do the warning and try to keep this thread going with no further discussion of the language choices of people's posts. Let's talk about the ship Error made, or at least limit our tangents to Star Wars and RPG related ones. Thank you.
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