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How to con the players into melee combat
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The Brain
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
I have been toying with mechanic that adds a new range called Engaged. Which is 0-3 meters. Most hand weapons are not effective at this range so it fits. Once you have entered Engaged range you perform brawling and melee attacks.


Umm, ok. So what species can punch someone from about 10 feet away?
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I meant, "Most ranged weapons are not effective at this range..."

As for what species? There are all sorts of real world models that show a person with a melee weapon can close the distance of 10-20 feet I think and attack the person before they can effectively fire at them. Effective fire meaning drawn a bead on the target and fire. Granted I think some of those models included drawing the weapon as well.

Bottom line, a person can effectively close the distance of 10' without much effort. Besides, this mechanic fills a hole in the system that I feel has been there for some time.
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The Brain
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts in no particular order.

1. DO NOT make it "blasters are illegal here" Because thats a huge tip off and (not unreasonable) PC logic translates that to "No one here will have guns, EXCEPT people who want to kill us.

2. Do your PCs have decent melee skills so it doesn't end up looking like a total hopeless GM fiat beatdown?

3. Don't give the pirates some special anti-blaster gear unless you are prepared for PCs to unleash it on the universe at large afterwards.

4. Best option IMO is to go with some environmental condition. Eg. some background radiation that destabilizes blaster gas. Some charged dust particles that short out blasters when fired.

5. Be careful not to make the effect something that disables to wide a swath of technological devices or someone will ask "then why do vibroblades still work?"

6. If some PC reaches under his coat and whips out a slug thrower pistol that will still work congratulate the player on his foresight and versatility and move on.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Sorry I meant, "Most ranged weapons are not effective at this range..."

As for what species? There are all sorts of real world models that show a person with a melee weapon can close the distance of 10-20 feet I think and attack the person before they can effectively fire at them. Effective fire meaning drawn a bead on the target and fire. Granted I think some of those models included drawing the weapon as well.

Bottom line, a person can effectively close the distance of 10' without much effort. Besides, this mechanic fills a hole in the system that I feel has been there for some time.


They do. Heck in my security guard training, we used 'lipstick round' live ammo, and tested that, with everyone wearing thick clothing (so it wouldn't hurt as much'. THE General range most of us were safe to hit the target before they rushed and sliced us, was just over 40ft (and we had measured out ranges in groups of 5ft with markers on the floor). A few of the better guys were able to do it at between 30-35ft.. NO ONE managed it at less than 30ft.

Quote:
6. If some PC reaches under his coat and whips out a slug thrower pistol that will still work congratulate the player on his foresight and versatility and move on.


One DM made that mistake with my PC way back.. Planet we went to under Imp control, had heavy blaster restrictions for ANYTHING beyond a standard pistol.. Not even sporting rifles or blaster carbines were allowed..
BUT i had no issue waltzing through with a shotgun, since most imps see a firearm and go "Why you got that archaic piece of xyz"..
Then when we went to fight the enemy stormies and the dark jedi leader, i wipped it out and blasted him at 20ft!! With the accompanying "I'd like to see you deflect THAT you b/stard"...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Then when we went to fight the enemy stormies and the dark jedi leader, i wipped it out and blasted him at 20ft!! With the accompanying "I'd like to see you deflect THAT you b/stard"...


I am decidedly reminded of Trinity in the first Matrix movie saying "Dodge this."
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im definately going with an enivromental approach. Plus I figure that vibros are self sealed therefore work but lightsabers can also short-out.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: How to con the players into melee combat Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:

In many tv shows we see people in close trying to 'shoot' but getting brawled/melee, to where they can't hit jack.. So perhaps someone that close in, being shot at, can use his or her melee/brawl parry instead of dodge..


This is how I handle it.

As a result, if you start the encounter with the PC's getting 'jumped', then the opponents can start at melee combat range. When the PC's try to bring their blasters to bear, you can have the enemies make 'parry' rolls to push the muzzles away from them; if the parry is done well enough perhaps the blaster gets dropped to the floor, in a disarming action.

Any melee weapon the players have on hand is going to look pretty attractive right about then.
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aegisflashfire
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gungan personal shields reflect blaster bolts. That seems a good incentive to switch to melee.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Why would a vibrorapier set off an explosive gas? It's not like they have sparks that would ignite anything. (Or do they?) How would a moving blade (even one as fast as a vibro-weapon) set off an explosive gas?

I was wondering that myself Smile

Sutehp wrote:
Also, I didn't know about that blaster-blocking gas. I'll have to look that up. I've heard of (fictional, obviously) low-tech lasers that could be blocked by smoke, since they're light-based, but I thought blasters worked differently and couldn't be blocked by any sort of gas, be it smoke, steam or what have you. (Are blasters plasma-based? I forget.) Finding out about a specific gas that can block blaster bolts is definitely a device with great story potential.

Dampener Aerosol seems a bit underpowered (i.e. in a cost-to-benefit ratio, you really get a very small defensive power). They can see through it too! So I am inclined to make it available to PC's. Nobody would buy that over saving for better armor. Or at least I wouldn't. If I found it on the ground I'll probably take it, but you won't see me buying any.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: How to con the players into melee combat Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
garhkal wrote:

In many tv shows we see people in close trying to 'shoot' but getting brawled/melee, to where they can't hit jack.. So perhaps someone that close in, being shot at, can use his or her melee/brawl parry instead of dodge..


This is how I handle it.

As a result, if you start the encounter with the PC's getting 'jumped', then the opponents can start at melee combat range. When the PC's try to bring their blasters to bear, you can have the enemies make 'parry' rolls to push the muzzles away from them; if the parry is done well enough perhaps the blaster gets dropped to the floor, in a disarming action.

Any melee weapon the players have on hand is going to look pretty attractive right about then.


Heck if at range, the enemy's first action could be to SHOOT the weapons (called shots with say that blaster buster weapon from Galadiniums)..

Error wrote:

Dampener Aerosol seems a bit underpowered (i.e. in a cost-to-benefit ratio, you really get a very small defensive power). They can see through it too! So I am inclined to make it available to PC's. Nobody would buy that over saving for better armor. Or at least I wouldn't. If I found it on the ground I'll probably take it, but you won't see me buying any.


At first it does. BUT when you see standard people having 2d str, give them a blast vest (2d+2 now to resist), and most weapons are 4d (pistols at least), that -1d damage, now has the overage being a mere 2 points on ave..
However i DO feel multiple 'doses' should stack up to say a max of -3d...
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best way to get players into melee combat in SW? Give them lightsabers! Smile
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Error
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: How to con the players into melee combat Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
At first it does. BUT when you see standard people having 2d str, give them a blast vest (2d+2 now to resist), and most weapons are 4d (pistols at least), that -1d damage, now has the overage being a mere 2 points on ave..
However i DO feel multiple 'doses' should stack up to say a max of -3d...

I am inclined to agree with multiple doses in adjacent spaces could stack, like if a blaster bolt had to pass through three clouds to hit someone—then it would be -3D. Or yeah if you really want, let someone dose a given locus 100 times and give passing bolts -100D, it's not really a tactical advantage after their opponents figure out they need to go around it, or use weapons other than blasters.

EDIT: I could see some of the more "rogue-ish" character builds, e.g. those with dice in Acrobatics, Sneak, Climb/Jump, Hide, Melee, etc. making good use of this stuff.
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Last edited by Error on Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Best way to get players into melee combat in SW? Give them lightsabers! Smile


It's also the quickest way to end the melee combat if they're non-Jedi who don't know how to use their lightsabers and subsequently cut their own arms off.... Razz
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:38 am    Post subject: Re: How to con the players into melee combat Reply with quote

Error wrote:
garhkal wrote:
At first it does. BUT when you see standard people having 2d str, give them a blast vest (2d+2 now to resist), and most weapons are 4d (pistols at least), that -1d damage, now has the overage being a mere 2 points on ave..
However i DO feel multiple 'doses' should stack up to say a max of -3d...

I am inclined to agree with multiple doses in adjacent spaces could stack, like if a blaster bolt had to pass through three clouds to hit someone—then it would be -3D..


Now that i can also agree with. So someone could pop a canister for a screen in front of him, someone else could pop a 2nd canister in front of that and a third could go where they stand.. creating a 3d screen...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still really feel like something is missing in this thread, from Cracken's Field Guide. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong it's been years. But as I remember it, yes, the bonus DID stack, of you had multiple clouds of it, as the blaster bolt passed through eahc one it was a further negative damage modifier.
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