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Urban Stormtrooper ?
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Error
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
+3d to sneak AND hide, when storm commando armor only gives +1d?? Way over the top there. AT most i could see it giving an equal +1d as storm commando armor.. BUT no where can i see it granting MORE..

Thank you for your opinion, garhkal, but it's not up to you (or me) what Whill does with his SWU.

Also, just out of curiosity, do you always just lambaste and shoot down folks' ideas and provide no alternative to the original idea? I keep seeing you do it. What's the deal? Are you trying to be helpful? I could think of ways for you to be helpful, since right now it's not happening.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pot, meet kettle.

Anyways, back to the composition of the armor. That it is non-glossy is a given; that's just a brushed look or whatever. However, you likely wouldn't want it too non-reflective either - Vantablack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack just looks weird, and would likely look like a 'black hole' even in a dimly lit environment.

Also, having a uniform color is likely counter-productive as well. Something like a mottled, matte grey, possibly enhanced with something that dampens sound as well, seems to be a good compromise.

One could add something like a personal camouflage net to that - or perhaps a semi-rigid 'plate' that can project an altered image back to the observer. Something like the thermoptic camouflage that Major Kusanagi uses in GITS, perhaps - it should suffice nicely to hide stuff like caches of equipment, or perhaps even hides for urban troopers.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Error wrote:
garhkal wrote:
+3d to sneak AND hide, when storm commando armor only gives +1d?? Way over the top there. AT most i could see it giving an equal +1d as storm commando armor.. BUT no where can i see it granting MORE..

Thank you for your opinion, garhkal, but it's not up to you (or me) what Whill does with his SWU.

Also, just out of curiosity, do you always just lambaste and shoot down folks' ideas and provide no alternative to the original idea? I keep seeing you do it. What's the deal? Are you trying to be helpful? I could think of ways for you to be helpful, since right now it's not happening.


MY second statement (i could see it being at most +1d equal to storm commandos) Was just that. Trying to be helpful.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am wondering, what is the focus of a Urban Trooper? Is it similar to SWAT units? Army and Marine squads trained for house-to-house and street-level action? I am pretty confused as to what type of specialized unit this is supposed to be.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
I am wondering, what is the focus of a Urban Trooper? Is it similar to SWAT units? Army and Marine squads trained for house-to-house and street-level action? I am pretty confused as to what type of specialized unit this is supposed to be.


I figured it as another type of specialized stormtrooper for urban terrain. (Maybe call them "street troopers?") IOW, as an Imperial analogue to the Rebel SpecForce Urban Commando Specialists. But yes, house-to-house and street-level actions would be the purview of this type of stormtrooper, I imagine.

Out of curiosity, can SWAT teams properly be considered part of the military? I always thought they were part of the local city police; what sort of military mission purview could the SWAT team have, if any? I'm curious what prompted you to mention/suggest police SWAT units for what is supposed to be a military urban combat unit. (Keep in mind, the only thing I know about SWAT teams is that SWAT stands for Special Weapons And Tactics and that they're part of the police, so I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm really asking.)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
I am wondering, what is the focus of a Urban Trooper? Is it similar to SWAT units? Army and Marine squads trained for house-to-house and street-level action? I am pretty confused as to what type of specialized unit this is supposed to be.

I asked that too and have somewhat of a clear view. If you read the first page he explains in in a sentence or two that he imagines them being a hybrid between an Urban Guerilla and a Storm Commando. I am still not clear on function though, but the picture is clearer.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
I am wondering, what is the focus of a Urban Trooper? Is it similar to SWAT units? Army and Marine squads trained for house-to-house and street-level action? I am pretty confused as to what type of specialized unit this is supposed to be.


I think it makes the most sense as a stormtrooper specializing in Urban Combat.

Here's Whill on the topic, in the OP:

Whill wrote:

Death Troopers and the Tank Troopers write-up that had the streetwise skill made me think of a old specialized stormtrooper variant I haven't used in a long time, a classic-era urban stormtrooper nicknamed "Streettrooper" that wore non-reflective black armor and specialized in sneaking, streetwise and fighting in an urban environment, kind of like the stormtrooper version of the Rebel SpecForce Urban Combat Specialists. I've looked through some of my books and Wookieepedia, and I just can't find anything. I don't think they were the GG9's storm commandos, shadow troopers and anything else like that. I'm thinking of a dedicated urban stormtrooper.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx, Error, Sutehp, garhkal, Zarn, Ninja-Bear, and bobenhotep, I really appreciate your input on this thread. Thank you!

shootingwomprats wrote:
I am wondering, what is the focus of a Urban Trooper? Is it similar to SWAT units? Army and Marine squads trained for house-to-house and street-level action? I am pretty confused as to what type of specialized unit this is supposed to be.

(1) There are several stormtrooper units suited for specific environment types, but none for an urban environment, probably the single most common environment stormtroopers might have to take action in. Not just in the Core Worlds, and not just "city planets". An "agriculture planet" could have one giant city bigger than any on Earth.
(2) Being that the urban environment is the most common environment, you pointed out on page 1 that regular stormtroopers should serve that purpose with maybe the sergeant having some additional skill in tactics: urban. I don't really dispute your point on that. I'm envisioning elite urban stormtroopers...

The Empire's answer to Rebel SpecForce Urban Guerrillas (except that the Imperial counterparts care less about preventing collateral damage of innocent civilians). GG9's storm commandos is a big influence, except that these "Street Troopers" are dedicated to the urban environment. Canon has Death Troopers which are elite stormtroopers dedicated to protecting the Death Star Project, so I don't see why there couldn't be an elite urban stormtrooper.

There seems to be a distinct niche for this in the SWU.

They could use speeder bikes like regular scout troopers but also use jet packs as needed. They have charcoal armor with slight color tone modulation and sound baffling tech to assist with hide and sneak. They have streetwise, and can even disguise and con as needed for covert operations. Sure they may do some SWAT type of stuff sometimes but these are a military unit.

Please read the other posts of this thread by myself and the guys I named at the top of this post for the concept discussion. If you still don't see a need for it, then you don't have to have it in your SWU.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of Urban stormtroopers, I stumbled across something in the fan made Star Wars ultimate npc collection v.85, which sourced to Shadows of the Empire Planets Collection, p. 75. What I found: Urban Scout Troopers.

They're not given much of a blurb, they just appear to be scout troopers with the following stats:
DEXTERITY 2D PERCEPTION 2D Blaster 4D, Brawling Parry 4D, Investigation 3D+1, Dodge 4D STRENGTH 2D KNOWLEDGE 2D Brawling 3D, Law Enforcement 4D, TECHNICAL 2D Streetwise 5D, MECHANICAL 3D Repulsorlift Operation: Speeder Bike 3D+2
Move: 10
Equipment: Hold-Out Blaster (3D+2), Scout Armor (+2 physical and energy), Blaster Pistol (4D), Aratech 74-Z speeder bike
Reference: Shadows of the Empire Planets Collection p75

And there are upjumped stats for veterans and squad leaders also in the fanbook.

Basically, they just seem to be scout troopers with the streetwise and law enforcement skills to me. But they could serve as inspirational fodder for someone.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also interesting, there was an "Urban Assault Darktrooper" in Star Wars Galaxies. If the Empire found it proper to have droids specialized for urban combat, it only stands to reason that they'd have the same for real troopers.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dustflier wrote:
Also interesting, there was an "Urban Assault Darktrooper" in Star Wars Galaxies. If the Empire found it proper to have droids specialized for urban combat, it only stands to reason that they'd have the same for real troopers.

I am not a video gamer and video games seem to operate under a different sense of reality than other media, so I tend to overlook video game continuity. I remember coming across droid stormtroopers at some point years ago and forgot about it. This urban assault dark trooper is applicable to the concept being discussed in this thread. Thanks for sharing this here.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't realize there were so many dark trooper battledroid variants. I thought it was just the 3 Phases, with the 2nd and 3rd Phases both being droids that could also function as wearable power armor.

With so many variants available, I can't help but wonder why the Empire didn't have enough production of these armors to get them out to enough front-line units and win the war. Maybe it's just me, but this many variants would seem to imply that the Empire did have enough factories to sufficiently supply enough stormtroopers with this sort of elite armor. Then again, if the Arc Hammer really was the only factory making the dark troopers and all their variants, then Kyle Katarn really did make a huge difference in the war blowing the Arc Hammer up when he did.

Damn, I wanna play all the Dark Forces/Jedi Academy games again.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Thanks for sharing this here.


You're welcome, Whill. I love the concept of the Urban/Street Trooper, but don't have much to contribute, otherwise.

Sutehp wrote:
I didn't realize there were so many dark trooper battledroid variants.


Yeah, they kinda went crazy with them. I'm not the biggest fan, really. See:

Whill wrote:
video games seem to operate under a different sense of reality than other media, so I tend to overlook video game continuity.


Ditto. Most of what video games have added to Star Wars lore is forgettable - but I do cherish the parts that are wonderful. Droid stormtroopers aren't in that category though, for me.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dustflier wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
I didn't realize there were so many dark trooper battledroid variants.


Yeah, they kinda went crazy with them. I'm not the biggest fan, really. See:

Whill wrote:
video games seem to operate under a different sense of reality than other media, so I tend to overlook video game continuity.


Ditto. Most of what video games have added to Star Wars lore is forgettable - but I do cherish the parts that are wonderful. Droid stormtroopers aren't in that category though, for me.


Droid troopers is one thing. Droid stormtroopers? Yeah, no. Aside from Dark Troopers (and their predecessor sentry droids shown on Rebels), the faceless goons of human stormtroopers are more than enough to show the Empire's soullessness. Stormtroopers may have undergone alot of villain decay since they were first hyped up as the Empire's elite troopers way back in ANH, but at least they weren't massed Butt Monkeys like the droid armies depicted in TCW and the prequels. To say nothing that the average biological sentient soldier is way smarter than the average battle droid.

Say what you will about the Empire's competency resulting from its arrogance, but at least they're not mindless, stupid B-1 droids. While 1st and 2nd and 3rd Degree droids are programmed to be very intelligent at professional tasks like advanced medicine, mechanical repair and protocol, one has to remember that 4th Degree military droids and especially 5th Degree menial labor droids tend to slide pretty quickly off the intelligence slope, especially in the case of 5th Degree droids since they're very often binary droids. And binary droids are notorious for being easily fooled.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've gotten fairly off-topic, but -

Sutehp wrote:
. . . one has to remember that 4th Degree military droids and especially 5th Degree menial labor droids tend to slide pretty quickly off the intelligence slope . . .


I think this makes sense, though. What's the worst a smart protocol droid can do? Exceptional translation or bookkeeping? A smart combat droid though? That's IG-88.

Making the droids stupid means they're easier to control, easier to trick if they turn against all organics, and has the added benefit of being cheaper to make.
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