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Galaxy Guide 13 by Eric Trautmann, writer of GG6
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Both versions of this mini-book look amazing, but I already found something to take issue with, as this is a fanbook, not something by a professional writer:

"Special Abilities: Blind: Chirrut Îmwe is blind, so is immune to vision based attacks, but requires the use of his remaining senses (and an echo box) to move through his environment." (emphasis mine)

Um, "immune" means "not affected or influenced by something," not "unable to use something." Plenty of stormtroopers use their eyes to aim and shoot at Chirrut, so he's most definitely not immune to vision based attacks. Especially when he finally gets shot in the final act. Rolling Eyes

In other words, Chirrut is blind, not invisible. Razz


Plus what vision based attacks ARE There? I know there are some fan made stuff for flash bang style grenades. And the rule on that Luma-flare that those looking at it need to roll something to not be temporarily blinded..
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Error
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ I have a house-ruled Force ability which allows a Jedi wielding a lightsaber to use that lightsaber to emit a pulse of blinding light. Characters roll their PER to resist it, but it can blind huge crowds of adversaries long enough to either make a break for it or to wade in and just cut them down like battle droids.

Also, don't tell me you guys are that dumb. Obviously the context means that a "Vision-based attack" is something that AFFECTS a subject's vision, not an attack that USES someone's vision to execute.

Good lord...smh.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but mentioning that a blind guy "is immune to vision-based attacks" but uses his other senses to compensate doesn't switch the subject of the sentence to make you think that it's Chirrut who's making the vision-based attack, which he can't obviously do because he's, y'know, blind. There's no reference in the sentence to anyone else making that attack on Chirrut, so the way the sentence is worded, it sounded like Chirrut himself was making a vision-based attack rather than mentioning the use of a vision-based attack used on him.

Now if the sentence had said something like "Chirrut's blindness will render any attack that affects a target's vision useless against him" would make more sense, but then again, such a thing is so obviously a no-brainer that it doesn't need to be stated outright. Why the author would pull attention to that, especially using the word "but" which contradicts/modifies a previous sentence clause, i.e. "this is true, but so is something else" rather than use the word "and" which emphasizes the first clause, i.e. "this is true and so is this"?

The author was basically saying "Chirrut's blind (that's bad for Chirrut), so he's immune to vision-based attacks (that's good for Chirrut), but he can compensate for his blindness with his other senses (that's also good for Chirrut)." Why put a "but" between two "good" clauses when a "but" is supposed to between a "bad" clause and a "good" clause? That's the essence of what muddled the meaning of "vision-based attack" for me.

Also, I replied on the thread about the Force Pulse.
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Dustflier
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It makes perfect sense as written, to me. I've been out of grammar school for many years now, but let me take a crack at it:

Independent clause: Chirrut Îmwe is blind

First subordinate clause: so is immune to vision based attacks (as in, "Chirrut cannot be affected by attacks or abilities that blind")

Second subordinate clause: but requires the use of his remaining senses (and an echo box) to move through his environment.

The tone of the sentence is neutral ("blind"), good ("so immune"), then bad ("but requires").
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dustflier wrote:
The tone of the sentence is neutral ("blind"), good ("so immune"), then bad ("but requires").


I dunno, just speaking for myself, I wouldn't consider being blind a "neutral" thing. I like being able to see. Mr. Green

Maybe I'm biased, but my affection for my eyesight would necessarily make me think that being robbed of said eyesight would be a bad thing, rather than a thing that would make me say "eh, no biggie."

Come to think of it, there are any number of body parts that if I suddenly found missing from my anatomy I would immediately consider it A Very Bad Thing. (Especially the parts that guys most dread losing.) Embarassed

EDIT:
Dustflier wrote:
First subordinate clause: so is immune to vision based attacks (as in, "Chirrut cannot be affected by attacks or abilities that blind").


I think this is where my confusion stemmed from: when I read the phrase "so is immune to vision based attacks," I read this as "Chirrut cannot use attacks or abilities that use sight" rather than "Chirrut cannot be affected by attacks or abilities that blind". The placement of the word "but" inbetween those clauses merely added to my confusion. Why mention that a blind man cannot be affected by attacks on a target's vision when such a thing is obvious because blind men by definition cannot see?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it meant Chirrut is immune to Kryptonian heat vision and stuff like that.

Just kidding. I do agree that it is poorly worded but it is obvious what was intended. This is obviously just something a former WEG author whipped up quickly (without an editor) just for fun out of nostalgia induced by how WEG-tastic Rogue One is. This was not actually intended to be used as a game supplement, although it certainly serves as inspiration for one (which is in the works). I think this level of criticism of this does this author's fandom a undeserved disservice. Lighten up.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I thought it meant Chirrut is immune to Kryptonian heat vision and stuff like that.


Hey! No mixing of genres here! Shocked I find it sacrilegious (did I spell that right?) to mix Space Opera with...whatever genre Superman is called. (Would that be Superhero Fantasy? Or would it be called something else? Razz )

...Does it count as ironic if an atheist says something is sacrilegious? Laughing

Whill wrote:
Lighten up.


I thought I just did. Mr. Green Cool
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way we've handled Chirrut's blindness and finely honed senses
for our GG is that he:

1. Suffers a -4D penalty to visually-based action due to his blindness,
under normal circumstances, but...

2. Using the "inward eye" technique of his zama-shiwo martial arts,
if he succeeds on either a Very Difficult search: hearing OR martial arts roll,
he is able to map out a radius of 20-25 some-odd meters through which
he may act without penalty, due to mapping out the terrain and its occupants
by sound or via his other senses. Similar to, but modified from blindfighting,
to reflect the specific focus on his senses, as well as the use for non-combat interaction.

As another "preview," I am also excited by my incorporation of
his "Mantra". If one is a master of zama-shiwo -- of at least 10D
in the skill -- and of strong will and faith, focusing in such a manner
allows a boost not unlike the use of the Force Power "concentration."
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