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Jar Jar Appreciation Thread (no joke)
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Jar Jar Appreciation Thread (no joke) Reply with quote




THE CASE FOR JAR JAR

Today starts my family's "Star Wars Week". Rouge One comes out on Blu-ray and DVD on Tuesday and we had already planned on watching it back-to-back with ANH. Then we thought of watching all of the movies one-a-day, with the prequels leading up to 4/4 and the other sequels after that day, so it worked out that all the episodes would be watched on the date of April corresponding to its episode number, and thus Episode I would be on April Fools Day. That made me think about Jar Jar.

I realize I am posting this mostly for the crickets, but on April Fools Day this year I thought that instead of posting something false I would post something in honor of our #1 Fool in Star Wars, Jar Jar Binks. Knowing something of the occult, Jar Jar has always reminded me of the first card in major arcana of the Tarot deck, The Fool, which in part symbolizes the beginning of a journey. Then I found the above article that is everything else I wanted to say, and more. I think the article's psychological/mythological archetypal perspectives on Jar Jar are fascinating.

If you read the article, I'd love to hear your thoughts. If not, I'd still love to hear anyone chime in with any positive or at least tolerant thoughts about Jar Jar. He's not my favorite character but I am somewhat entertained by his antics and he does actually serve a deeper purpose than poop jokes and selling merchandise to parents of kids under 7.
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Melkor
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from holding to the theory that Jar Jar is in fact a Sith Lord, he does have a mild amusement to him. Which according to the Aftermath books he's a Street Performer on Naboo who makes children laugh these days.

He does fit the Arcana Fool rather well as he does prompt several things to occur, Qui and Obi's journey, Palpatine's rise. Not all good things, but he does preempt major events like Lightning before Thunder.
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I won't go so far as to say that I "appreciate" or particularly like the character per se, I do mind him far less these days,
as I now find him to be a sympathetic character and tragic figure -- especially by the time he is manipulated into suggesting
the motion to grant Palpatine emergency powers, while Binks fills in for absent Amidala in RotS.

At least for me and likely for others, Lucas played well off of previous dislike of the character and managed to create
some measure of audience sympathy to see JarJar's well-meaning nature exploited.


Last edited by Telsij on Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:47 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to have to read the Aftermath books for other reason, but now I have to read it to see if Jar Jar managed to find some sort of happy ending. A street performer isn't much of a career especially after being a war hero and a representative in the Senate, but I also remember what Galen Erso said in the holographic message in the RO novel (if not in the movie):

Quote:
"History will forgive me or excoriate me, as is appropriate. I only wish it would forget about me.


If Jar Jar managed to be forgotten well enough that he's now an anonymous street performer on Naboo (although, I think he was exiled from the Gungan city by the other Gungans, so he can't really go home anymore), then "history" may have forgotten Jar Jar as well as Galen could have wished for himself.

There's not much peace to be found there for a tragic figure like Jar Jar, but maybe it's enough for him. Whatever else, he didn't deserve the grief he got, in-universe or out.
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ForbinProject
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Jar Jar Appreciation Thread (no joke) Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Rouge One comes out on Blu-ray and DVD on Tuesday


Rouge One? Is that a tutorial on applying cosmetics?

Just teasing Whill. Couldn't resist.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Jar Jar Appreciation Thread (no joke) Reply with quote

ForbinProject wrote:
Whill wrote:
Rouge One comes out on Blu-ray and DVD on Tuesday


Rouge One? Is that a tutorial on applying cosmetics?

Just teasing Whill. Couldn't resist.

It took me a second to get the joke based on my dyslexic typo. Ha.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoy Jar Jar. Odd as that sounds. I certainly never thought I would be saying that when the film first came out. I never hated the cartoon rabbit the way other fans did. I didn't like him, but I found him tolerable. Nowadays I actually enjoy him. I'll tell you why.

Www.redlettermedia.com

I'm on a new cellphone and chrome works a bit differently. You may have to copy and paste the link.

Red Letter Media did a comprehensive review of the prequel trilogy. They made excellent points about story and character that made me realize that the prequels were poorly told stories. My love, or bias, of Star Wars had blinded me to how flat the characters were and how many ways the story could have been told better.

One of the moments that really woke me up in the review was when they asked people to describe any of the characters in The Phantom Menace without using their job titles. It is extremely hard to do. Except for Jar Jar. (FYI you cannot describe the characters from their portrayals in other films, books, cartoons, and other media. Only the Phantom Menace)

In my opinion, for what little it's worth, people's hatred of Jar Jar is the result of the cognitive dissonance created by their love of Star Wars and the horrible film that was The Phantom Menace. Since people loved Star Wars they didn't want to hate The Phantom Menace so they focused their hate on a mildly annoying character.

Jar Jar is annoying. Especially the voice. Not the accent, the voice. Boss Nass and Captain Tarpals weren't annoying at all and they spoke the with the same accent.

In a better movie Jar Jar would be mildly annoying comedic relief, and the character everyone else can talk too. He fills in for C-3PO, who is also annoying but supplies most of the comedy in the OT. In TPM he is the most obviously objectionable thing in a bland and boring movie.
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Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I can say about Jar-Jar is that he can use the Force Power: "Summon Bigger Fish".
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
I enjoy Jar Jar. Odd as that sounds. I certainly never thought I would be saying that when the film first came out. I never hated the cartoon rabbit the way other fans did. I didn't like him, but I found him tolerable. Nowadays I actually enjoy him. I'll tell you why.

Www.redlettermedia.com

I'm on a new cellphone and chrome works a bit differently. You may have to copy and paste the link.

Red Letter Media did a comprehensive review of the prequel trilogy. They made excellent points about story and character that made me realize that the prequels were poorly told stories. My love, or bias, of Star Wars had blinded me to how flat the characters were and how many ways the story could have been told better.

One of the moments that really woke me up in the review was when they asked people to describe any of the characters in The Phantom Menace without using their job titles. It is extremely hard to do. Except for Jar Jar. (FYI you cannot describe the characters from their portrayals in other films, books, cartoons, and other media. Only the Phantom Menace)

In my opinion, for what little it's worth, people's hatred of Jar Jar is the result of the cognitive dissonance created by their love of Star Wars and the horrible film that was The Phantom Menace. Since people loved Star Wars they didn't want to hate The Phantom Menace so they focused their hate on a mildly annoying character.

Jar Jar is annoying. Especially the voice. Not the accent, the voice. Boss Nass and Captain Tarpals weren't annoying at all and they spoke the with the same accent.

In a better movie Jar Jar would be mildly annoying comedic relief, and the character everyone else can talk too. He fills in for C-3PO, who is also annoying but supplies most of the comedy in the OT. In TPM he is the most obviously objectionable thing in a bland and boring movie.

I appreciate your admission of enjoyment of Jar Jar despite some annoyance. Thank you for chiming in.

I am well aware that there is a lot of fanboy hatred of TPM, but I'm skeptical that are a lot of fans who redirected their hatred for TPM to Jar Jar. The biggest detractors of one are usually also big detractors of the other, so most fans I know who hate either one will usually tell me they hate both. Jar Jar is just one thing on a big laundry list of other things to hate on in TPM. "And another thing... and another thing... and another thing..." I've heard it all. They tend to just let the hate flow through them.

Since the discussion turned towards Jar Jar hatred in relation to TPM hatred, I want to go on record saying I love TPM. It's my second fave Lucas film (after ANH). My best friends love TPM too. One of them has always said he loves everything about TPM except Jar Jar. At first he hated Jar Jar but he has softened over the years too, to the point of now saying that only his voice is annoying. I don't really find it very annoying. It seems appropriate for the character. Another best friend feels similar to how I do, in that Jar Jar is mildly entertaining and not annoying. TPM is the only prequel my wife really likes because she just hates adult Anakin for turning bad. My wife likes Jar Jar a lot.

As far as the other characters in TPM, the only ones I find to be a little flat are Mace Windu and Anakin, but I'm am accepting of the latter because he's just a kid. Jake Lloyd really didn't do a bad job considering Lucas' deficiency in directing human performances in general. I have to give the kid some props. I am less forgiving of the adult Anakin in Episodes II and III. I guess I have a higher expectation for an adult.
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"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

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griff
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never understood the hatred of TPM. I agree that it isn't great, but I was never disappointed with it. Jar Jar has grown on me having watched TPM with my young children. Both of them having watched Star Wars very nearly after being born. Jar Jar never seemed out of place. And because of his trusting nature and wanting to be helpful to his friends, especially Padme, was manipulated to proposing the motion to give emergency powers to Palpatine.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you guys enjoy Phantom Menace. If you want to know why I think it's a poorly told story you can look up Red Letter Media's review. I'd rather not tarnish your enjoyment. Especially if it's something you can share with your wife and kids.

Ray, www.darthsanddroids.net is awesome!
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
I'm glad you guys enjoy Phantom Menace... I'd rather not tarnish your enjoyment.

I appreciate this attitude so much. Unfortunately there is a tendency in Star Wars fandom for people with negative opinions to try to convince others they should feel the same way, I guess because misery loves company. It boggles my mind why people would try to ruin someone on something. I am inclined to try to respectfully alleviate someone's dislikes or aid in increased appreciation, but this is a positive thing.

Kytross wrote:
...Phantom Menace. If you want to know why I think it's a poorly told story you can look up Red Letter Media's review.

It's been years since I went to that site but I believe I only made it through the first video for TPM. I did not find it entertaining. And while many things like character annoyance and movie dislike are completely subjective, I remember many of things he said about the film are simply not objectively factual. There's obviously a target audience and an agenda to the video. I actually feel sorry for any fans who share that guy's opinions and beliefs. Kytross, you come across much more rational than Red Letter Media (and I thank you for that). Anyway, there's nothing in that TPM review to help anyone appreciate it more.

I recommend watching Akira Kurosawa's classic 1958 jidaigeki film, The Hidden Fortress. It was the primary plot inspiration for The Star Wars: Rough Draft. As the story got rewritten into the film we now call ANH, Lucas lost more and more elements of The Hidden Fortress. I think it is fascinating that when he sat down to write the story for Episode I, he went back to The Star Wars rough draft for inspiration and thus TPM is in some ways more of a tribute to The Hidden Fortress then ANH ended up being. Artoo and Threepio were inspired by the same two characters who later inspired Jar Jar!

I find TPM to be flavorful and exciting. I'm not claiming that The Hidden Fortress will magically make someone start to love TPM if they don't already, but it is possible this film of classic cinema could help someone gain a little better appreciation of TPM by getting inside of Lucas' head and seeing it from his point of view.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Letter Media has a style to it. He's telling a horror story as much as he is doing a review. It's not generally my cup of tea. When I got past the cursing and the horror show style meta story, he was able to make some points that resonated with me. He pointed out some things I hadn't really wanted to see because I wanted to like the prequels.



I find the plot of the prequels to be a thing of brilliance. Especially how Palpatine avoids the Jedi danger sense. The Jedi can't find a threat to the Republic because there is no threat to the Republic. The Separatists don't wish ill to the Republic, rather, they seek their own independence. They are not a danger to the Republic. Who starts the fight in Geonosis, and with it the Clone Wars? The Republic.

Brilliant!

I think the story is poorly told. We are never explicitly shown or told that Palpatine is maneuvering around the Jedi Danger Sense. A quick monologue from Palpatine in EP3 would have cleared a lot of things up for the audience.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Great plot. Terrible presentation of the plot.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
...Brilliant!

I think the story is poorly told.
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Agreed. Great plot. Terrible presentation of the plot.

I'll agree with more of the criticisms of AotC, my least favorite of the now eight SW films. I only have a few issues with RotS. But I can't just make categorical statements about the prequels as a set because they are all very different to me. Of these three films, I rank them best to worst as I, III, II.

Kytross wrote:
We are never explicitly shown or told that Palpatine is maneuvering around the Jedi Danger Sense. A quick monologue from Palpatine in EP3 would have cleared a lot of things up for the audience.

I was never aware of any audience confusion. After the reveal that Palpatine was the Sith Master in RotS, even the casual viewers I know got it.

In The Phantom Menace screenplay, George Lucas wrote:
OBI-WAN : I have a bad feeling about this.
QUI-GON : I don't sense anything.
OBI-WAN : It's not about the mission, Master. It's something elsewhere... elusive.
...
MACE WINDU : A Sith Lord?!?
KI-ADI : Impossible! The Sith have been extinct for a millennium.
MACE WINDU : I do not believe they could have returned without us knowing.
YODA : Hard to see, the dark side is.

In the Revenge of the Sith screenplay, George Lucas wrote:
ANAKIN: I've just learned a terrible truth. I think Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord.
MACE WINDU: A Sith Lord?!?

Darth Sidious is the "phantom" menace. I don't get why anyone would need Palpatine to say he was evading the Jedi ability to sense that he was a dark side Force user. He sat in the same room with Jedi and had conversations with them without them knowing. We see this lack of detection throughout the prequels. Palpatine obviously can hide his Sithness from the Jedi because he did.

Yoda said the Dark Side can be hard to see. Obi-Wan said there was something out there, elusive. Sidious was revealed to be a phantom that can hide in plain sight. We see Jedi not detecting Sidious in three movies. What more do you need? Jeesh.
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"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
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