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Scarif Shield Gate
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Scarif Shield Gate Reply with quote

So, according to Wookieepedia, the Shield Gate served as a controllable opening in a planetary shield, which puts an interesting spin on planetary shields in general. However, there is a plot issue:
    -If the Rogue One team couldn't transmit the Death Star Plans through the shield, then the shield would have to be taken down completely to transmit.

    -However, if the Shield Gate is destroyed, but the shield itself is being generated from another location, the shield itself will still be up.

    -The alternative is that the Shield Gate itself is the Shield Generator, placed in orbit rather than the planet's surface, and destroying the gate also brings down the entire shield. However, Wookieepedia makes no mention of the Shield Gate station having that capability.

My theory is the latter, that the Shield Gate station is an orbital Planetary Shield generator, as well as the only means of access through the shield when it is active. The vulnerability of the station itself (as evidenced by its destruction at Scarif) would be the reason why the Empire moved away from its use when defending high value targets, depending instead on ground-based projectors, ala Endor.

Thoughts?
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What bugs me is that we see the Gate get destroyed and a flash that seems to indicate the shield going down, but in later shots of the planet, the blue glow denoting the shield is still there, even in the shot of the Death Star firing at the Scarif base and in shots of the planet afterwards while the Tantive IV is escaping.

So was the Death Star actually shooting through the planetary shield while it still appeared to be up? And was the shield still up after the Death Star fired its superlaser? Shocked Shocked Shocked
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
What bugs me is that we see the Gate get destroyed and a flash that seems to indicate the shield going down, but in later shots of the planet, the blue glow denoting the shield is still there, even in the shot of the Death Star firing at the Scarif base and in shots of the planet afterwards while the Tantive IV is escaping.

So was the Death Star actually shooting through the planetary shield while it still appeared to be up? And was the shield still up after the Death Star fired its superlaser? Shocked Shocked Shocked

I always thought the shield was invisible until the moment it went down (cue energy disruptions as the shield drops), and that the blue glow was Scarif's atmosphere, which can be visible as a haze close to the planet from space.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
What bugs me is that we see the Gate get destroyed and a flash that seems to indicate the shield going down, but in later shots of the planet, the blue glow denoting the shield is still there, even in the shot of the Death Star firing at the Scarif base and in shots of the planet afterwards while the Tantive IV is escaping.

So was the Death Star actually shooting through the planetary shield while it still appeared to be up? And was the shield still up after the Death Star fired its superlaser? Shocked Shocked Shocked

I always thought the shield was invisible until the moment it went down (cue energy disruptions as the shield drops), and that the blue glow was Scarif's atmosphere, which can be visible as a haze close to the planet from space.


Nah, that blue glow is way too evenly delineated/sharp at the edge to be the atmosphere, not to mention that my gut feeling says that such an atmosphere glow should much closer to white, not electric blue, because of the clouds' color. (And that's assuming a nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere will have any kind of visible glow at all; air is an invisible gas, after all. Although I could be wrong on this; it's been a while since I saw real life spaceborne pics of Earth and don't remember if there was or wasn't such an atmosphere glow.)

Besides, when we see the gate get smashed, those exploding blue sparks are exactly the same color as the glow surrounding the planet, the same glow that persists in every spaceborne shot of Scarif both before and after the Gate was destroyed. That's why I think the shield was still up even when the Gate got destroyed.

To be fair, we don't see the entire Gate station get destroyed; we see the debris of the Star Destroyer make a big hole in the Gate's ring. Maybe the hole is what Jyn transmitted the Death Star plans through to the Profundity even while the shield itself was still up?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:43 am    Post subject: Re: Scarif Shield Gate Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The alternative is that the Shield Gate itself is the Shield Generator, placed in orbit rather than the planet's surface, and destroying the gate also brings down the entire shield. However, Wookieepedia makes no mention of the Shield Gate station having that capability.[/list]
My theory is the latter, that the Shield Gate station is an orbital Planetary Shield generator, as well as the only means of access through the shield when it is active. The vulnerability of the station itself (as evidenced by its destruction at Scarif) would be the reason why the Empire moved away from its use when defending high value targets, depending instead on ground-based projectors, ala Endor.

Thoughts?

Sutehp wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
So was the Death Star actually shooting through the planetary shield while it still appeared to be up? And was the shield still up after the Death Star fired its superlaser? Shocked Shocked Shocked

I always thought the shield was invisible until the moment it went down (cue energy disruptions as the shield drops), and that the blue glow was Scarif's atmosphere, which can be visible as a haze close to the planet from space.

Nah, that blue glow is way too evenly delineated/sharp at the edge to be the atmosphere, not to mention that my gut feeling says that such an atmosphere glow should much closer to white, not electric blue, because of the clouds' color. (And that's assuming a nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere will have any kind of visible glow at all; air is an invisible gas, after all. Although I could be wrong on this; it's been awhile since I saw real life spaceborne pics of Earth and don't remember if there was or wasn't such an atmosphere glow.)

Besides, when we see the gate get smashed, those exploding blue sparks are exactly the same color as the glow surrounding the planet, the same glow that persists in every spaceborne shot of Scarif both before and after the Gate was destroyed. That's why I think the shield was still up even when the Gate got destroyed.

To be fair, we don't see the entire Gate station get destroyed; we see the debris of the Star Destroyer make a big hole in the Gate's ring. Maybe the hole is what Jyn transmitted the Death Star plans through to the Profundity even while the shield itself was still up?

Oh, the shield gate was toast. And by the way, I didn't see much of the blue atmosphere glow in the shot that showed the Death Star had arrived, but I do see what you mean for the other shots.

I think you both may be on the right track. BTW, the Death Star would seem to be able to shoot right through planetary shields, unless Alderaan didn't raise them to not look suspicious. That's beside the point, but just sayin'.

Regarding the shield gate, the shield around the gate definitely went down when it was wrecked because (1) the effects showed it disappearing, and (2) the premise of the whole thing was that the shield prevented a transmission of a file that size so it had to be down to get the plans through. (If the shield didn't go down then the Rebels couldn't have gotten the plans, according to the movie itself.)

It's possible that the shield around the gate was generated by the gate and the rest of the planet's shield was generated separately, so when the gate was wrecked it opened a hole in the shield. The rest of the planet's shield could have stayed up. They only needed a hole, not to bring down the whole planet's shield. I can see why that wouldn't be specified in the narrative because the shield gate is over the base and that is the only part of the shield that mattered.

And yes, the gate's destruction would be a good reason why the Empire might not use that setup again. While the shield gate does allow you to bottleneck ships getting through the shield to one spot for better space traffic control, the local area shield-generating shield gate is more vulnerable.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been meaning to get around to this...


CLICK HERE FOR LARGE IMAGE


SkyWall-Class Orbital Shield Projection Station

SkyWall stations are primarily used by the Empire when it is more interested in controlling access to a planet than in defending it from attack. A SkyWall cuts off all unauthorized traffic simply by only opening the shield for ships that its traffic controllers have cleared. In addition, the station carries a heavy defensive armament and several wings of TIEs to stave off any direct attacks. The only way to access such a protected planet is to somehow fool the station's crew, either by acquiring authentic-appearing identification or by using an authorized ship.

Unfortunately, recent experience has shown that SkyWall stations are vulnerable to direct attack, if in sufficient strength to destroy the station itself. As such, high value worlds continue to rely on ground-based planetary shield generators as their primary mode of defense, with SkyWalls either serving as shield relays and access points or being transfered to lower priority worlds where direct attacks are not considered to be likely.

Craft: Golan Space Defenses' SkyWall
Type: Orbital Planetary Shield Projection Station
Scale: Destroyer (+12D)
Length: 1,550 meters
Skill: Battlestation Operations: SkyWall
Crew: 2,130 (1,000 @ +10) & 176 Gunners
Crew Skill:
Gunnery 5D
Operations 5D
Shields 5D
Sensors 4D
Passengers: 800 (troops; counter-boarding infantry battalion)
Small Craft Complement:
--288 Starfighters (24 Squadrons / 4 Wings)
--48-96 utility craft
Cargo Capacity: 5,000 metric tons
Consumables: 2 years
Space: 1/2 (station-keeping impellers, which allow it to hold position against gravity, or to shift positions very slowly. This can not be used as a reaction skill)
Hull: 4D
Shields: 4D
Sensors:
Passive 25/1D
Scan 50/2D
Search 75/3D
Focus 3/4D
Weapons:
24 Turbolaser Batteries
Fire Arc: 6 Front/Left, 6 Front/Right, 6 Rear/Left, 6 Rear/Right
Scale: Frigate (+10D)
Crew: 4
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Range:
--Space: 2-10/25/50
--Orbital: 4km-20km/50km/100km
--Atmosphere: 200m-1km/2.5km/5km
Rate of Fire: 1
Damage: 6D
24 Laser Batteries
Fire Arc: 6 Front/Left, 6 Front/Right, 6 Rear/Left, 6 Rear/Right
Scale: Starship (+6D)
Crew: 1
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Range:
--Space: 1-3/12/25
--Orbital: 2km-6km/24km/50km
--Atmosphere: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 7D
8 Tractor Beam Projectors
Fire Arc: 2 Front/Left, 2 Front/Right, 2 Rear/Left, 2 Rear/Right
Crew: 4
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 4D
Range:
--Space: 1-5/15/30
--Orbital: 2km-10km/30km/60km
--Atmosphere: 100m-500m/1.5km/3km
Rate of Fire: 1 (Full Round)
Damage: 6D
*May switch between Destroyer (+12D), Frigate (+10D) and Starship (+6D). Switch takes one round, during which the projector can not be used.
Special Equipment:
Planetary Shield Projector
Description: A fully-encasing energy shield, capable of providing coverage to an entire planet.
Scale: Death Star (+24D)
Difficulty: Moderate (Covers entire planet). Multiple stations can be coordinated for greater effect.
Shield: 3D
Effects:
-Shield inflicts 3D Death Star-Scale Damage on contact with any physical object.
-Add Shield Dice (and appropriate Scale modifier) to the Difficulty to any Sensor or Communications that attempts to pass through the shield.
Shield Gate
Description: The ring-shaped station can open a temporary gap in the shield generator, allowing small craft ranging from starfighters up to light or medium cruisers to pass through the shield perimeter without needing to drop the shield. The gate is under the sole control of traffic control aboard the station, and requires one full round to open and close. When the gate is closed, it is equal in strength and effect to the planetary shield.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 am; edited 4 times in total
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not so sure about it inflicting Death Star scale damage... rather, it seems to me that it resists damage and acts in collision like a death star scale object.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
I'm not so sure about it inflicting Death Star scale damage... rather, it seems to me that it resists damage and acts in collision like a death star scale object.

Which is why you need to know how strong the shield is to calculate damage, as well as Comm/ Scan Difficulty. I don't see the problem.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the work.

You list scale for the "24 Turbolaser Batteries" and the "24 Dual Laser Cannon" but not for the Tractor Beams, the Station itself, nor for the protection value to the planet of the planetary shield. We can infer scale for the Tractor Beams and the Station by the operating skills, but it would nice to list the scale specifically. I'm unsure of how strong the planetary shield is supposed to be for protection. Is that supposed to be 4D Death Star Scale?

Traditionally a gate is a weak-point in a defense. Which would help explain why the fleet is attacking the gate rather than some random, undefended portion of the shield wall. But it seems like your gate may be stronger than the shield wall itself. That feels wrong.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good catch.

The Scale should be Destroyer (+12D). The station itself has a Hull of 4D, with 4D Shields, at that Scale, but projects a 3D Death Star Scale shield around the planet.

The Tractor Beam Projectors are designed to be variable in Scale. The same projector can switch to a wide-angle mode that, while less powerful, has a better chance of catching a smaller target.

EDIT: Added Scale to the Station's stats.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much more clearer now, thanks. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
I'm not so sure about it inflicting Death Star scale damage... rather, it seems to me that it resists damage and acts in collision like a death star scale object.


Especially when 2 star destroyers getting crashed into it, made it collapse..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
I'm not so sure about it inflicting Death Star scale damage... rather, it seems to me that it resists damage and acts in collision like a death star scale object.


Especially when 2 star destroyers getting crashed into it, made it collapse..

They didn’t crash into the shield; they crashed into the station, which only has a Hull of 4D Destroyer-Scale, 3D less than just one of the ISDs.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Scarif Shield Gate Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
BTW, the Death Star would seem to be able to shoot right through planetary shields, unless Alderaan didn't raise them to not look suspicious. That's beside the point, but just sayin'.

Actually, it is a pertinent point in a way. Actually rolling Death Star Scale damage against a planet protected by a planetary shield generator is going to be incredibly rare (either that or one seriously messed up campaign). A much more common scenario would be using a planetary shield to protect a base or some other, similarly sized facility from orbital bombardment.

The easiest way to deal with that is to treat planetary shields as 100% Cover, then roll any attacks against the shield itself, with the resulting generating a modifier to the Damage inflicted on whatever the shield is protecting.

With the Death Star at Alderaan, the strongest available planetary shield is rated at 3D Death Star Scale. A full-power shot from the Death Star does 16D Death Star Scale damage, 16D Damage vs a 3D Shield is going to blast through the shield like it's not even there and inflict full damage on the planet.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
I'm not so sure about it inflicting Death Star scale damage... rather, it seems to me that it resists damage and acts in collision like a death star scale object.


Especially when 2 star destroyers getting crashed into it, made it collapse..

They didn’t crash into the shield; they crashed into the station, which only has a Hull of 4D Destroyer-Scale, 3D less than just one of the ISDs.


So with an av roll, the facility would have suffered a moderate damage.. I can see that.
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