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Should skills have a maximum limit?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Should skills have a maximum limit? Reply with quote

If you look in the main books, from all the way back in 1e days through REUP, it goes to show a 14d is "best in the galaxy". So do you think that means there should be a hard cap in no skill can be improved above 14d?
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience...if you put a cap on something, many players see it as a personal challenge/ goal and will do whatever they think it will take to meet it.

For me, it's better to leave it open-ended. Then you always have the axiom: No matter how good you are, there's always the potential of somebody better.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
In my experience...if you put a cap on something, many players see it as a personal challenge/ goal and will do whatever they think it will take to meet it.

For me, it's better to leave it open-ended. Then you always have the axiom: No matter how good you are, there's always the potential of somebody better.


+1. Even Han Solo, who could have had a legitimate claim to being the fastest draw in the galaxy, encountered someone better.

Han Solo wrote:
The fast draw is a bit overrated is you ask me. Oh, sure it sells holoflicks, but in real life? I've seen more go down that way than just about any other. Sure, speed counts but so does accuracy. It doesn't do you any good if you shoot the floor five times while your opponent puts the bead on you for good. I learned this the hard way...

I'll never forget just how in sync everything seemed. I mean, perfectly in tune, like a hyperdrive that's micro-precise. Unquestionably, absolutely unquestionably, that was the fastest I'll ever draw. Lotta good it did me and Chewie and Leia.

The big bruiser just shrugged it off with a wave of his hand, then took my gun from me like I was a child. Of course, if you can show me anyone else who ever quickdrew on a Sith Lord, I'd like to see how well he made out.


All this time I've been wanting to quote that particular Han Solo quote and now I finally got the chance! Mr. GreenMr. GreenMr. GreenMr. Green
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also note that, although he could, even Darth Vader doesn't improve his six attributes.

I've always wondered about that. Have you noticed? The official stats for all the heroes and Darth never improve stats, only skills.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Also note that, although he could, even Darth Vader doesn't improve his six attributes.

I've always wondered about that. Have you noticed? The official stats for all the heroes and Darth never improve stats, only skills.


The question is, do they friggin' need to raise their attributes? They've each all got hundreds of skill points if you look at their later stats!

FFS, I'm editing the main characters as per their appearances in Legacy of the Force, circa 40 ABY. I don't even want to think about trying to tally how many skill points Luke Skywalker has accumulated since Yavin. That would drive me (more) bonkers.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I feel 9D-10D should probably be it. I'm pretty sure I've never had a player that raised a PC's skill above 8D. Once they get a couple signature skills to 8D, they wisely move on to other skills to make their PCs more well-rounded.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Yeah I feel 9D-10D should probably be it. I'm pretty sure I've never had a player that raised a PC's skill above 8D. Once they get a couple signature skills to 8D, they wisely move on to other skills to make their PCs more well-rounded.


I've known some who have had skills as high as 12-13, but admittedly they were in specializations)..
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something I've noticed about RL;

No matter the skill, no matter how obscure the skill is...someone will take it to THE EXTREME!!!

When you look at something like sports; basketball for instance. Look at the best players in the world in the 1940s. Then compare them to the best players in the world currently.

If you had a limit of 10D for basketball back in 1940...how could you classify what guys are doing right now?

Riding a bicycle...then compare it to the trickster BMX dudes.

Standing on a board with wheels while it rolls....then compare to modern skateboarders in a half-pipe!

Even walking...moving with one foot in front of the other...but how fast can you go before you break into a jog...compare to Olympic speed-walkers!

If you set an arbitrary limit on the level of any skill; say Sensors at 18D.

This means that somewhere in the galaxy you could have two people who made reading sensors their whole reason for being...it's their PASSION.

And then they meet for the annual sensor-tracking competition (I swear...there seems to be a pro competition for anything and everything if you know where to look.)

Logically one is going to have to win the competition. Is this just a matter of spending CPs? Or can one guy lose...and then train harder for next year to get an edge?

Of course all of this is at the extreme level, not really a matter we see in gaming on a regular basis. I'm just against the principle of artificial limits.

Very Happy
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Giant Tourtiere
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't ever put a max on anything. There's kind of diminishing returns past a certain point raising skills anyway; once it becomes likely you can hit Heroic Difficulties reliably there's kind of no point. Obviously multiple actions is worth thinking about but unless you have several really high skills you're restricted in how many you can take by the lower skills anyway.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
Something I've noticed about RL;

No matter the skill, no matter how obscure the skill is...someone will take it to THE EXTREME!!!
Very Happy


That is true, there are people irl that take the most obscure to the extreme, but there is also generally a hard cap on how far they can progress. Physical limitations (their body just can't push anymore), mental limitations, societal limitations, legal limitations etc.

So if we can have max levels irl, why not in game?
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that we need hard max levels. At some point, the cost of moving up will be too high--when you can use those points to move up another skill or stat.

I mean, why would one continue to improve an area where he already makes every task test thrown at him--or, at least most of them--when he could be improving his second best expertise area?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These where some the stats for the emperor, just saying

Force Skills: Control 15D+2, sense 17D, alter 15D+1

Dont really think you need a max level in the end it wont be cost effective for a pc to incease skills that high, not to talk about how slow progression his skill raises will have when he is over 12-15D, anyhow i think this shows that skills dont need a max, but there is a point of no return as far as cp goes
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Dredwulf60 wrote:
Something I've noticed about RL;

No matter the skill, no matter how obscure the skill is...someone will take it to THE EXTREME!!!
Very Happy


That is true, there are people irl that take the most obscure to the extreme, but there is also generally a hard cap on how far they can progress. Physical limitations (their body just can't push anymore), mental limitations, societal limitations, legal limitations etc.

So if we can have max levels irl, why not in game?


I'm not too sure about that though. Do we really have a hard cap on improvement in skills? Isn't that what Olympic broken records is all about?

Granted sometimes improvement gets shaven down to milliseconds and might include things like what direction the breeze is blowing that day, and what is the orbit of the moon in relation to the sun at that moment...what you ate for breakfast that day...

Or maybe all that stuff is taken into account when you roll the dice; ie skills are a number of randomized factors, not a set value.
In any case it never ceases to amaze me what levels humans can take skills...

Watching parkour for example...some of the things done I'd never thought possible. And when you break it down; it's just jumping, running and climbing taken to a very high level.
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bobenhotep
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Yeah I feel 9D-10D should probably be it. I'm pretty sure I've never had a player that raised a PC's skill above 8D. Once they get a couple signature skills to 8D, they wisely move on to other skills to make their PCs more well-rounded.


I never thought much about this because I never had anyone with a skill over 8D either.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobenhotep wrote:
Whill wrote:
Yeah I feel 9D-10D should probably be it. I'm pretty sure I've never had a player that raised a PC's skill above 8D. Once they get a couple signature skills to 8D, they wisely move on to other skills to make their PCs more well-rounded.

I never thought much about this because I never had anyone with a skill over 8D either.

Right. I've never had an actual limit because 8D was the highest any of my players had taken a skill to and 8D was never an issue. I've ran several PCs that had a couple 8D skills with a few 6D skills, and then several skills in the 4D-5D range.
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