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PC ship vs Star Destroyer
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Technically if they are doing a full dodge though, they shouldn't be gaining ground on the imp ship (or getting closer to the jump point), since they can't "Move"...


Arguable, since "In Very Easy, Easy, and Moderate space, cautious movement is a "free action" and the pilot doesn't have to roll his space transports (or other skill)." (p. 123)

So, they can fly circles around you, but they won't be able to hit you.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, but based on the diff levels for terrain, having lots of ships around you FIRING at you should qualify you as moderate or higher in the terrain levels..
Quote:
Moderate: 11-15. Flying a starship in crowded space
— a busy space dock staging area. Flying in an area
littered with a moderate amount of debris or down the
Death Star's artificial canyon.
Difficult: 16-20. Starfighter combat with many ships
in the immediate area. Flying through an area clogged
with debris or asteroids.

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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good ideas everybody.
garhkal wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
How do you decide how many batteries to bring to bear on the fleeing PC ship?

In 1e games, we started at 2 guns, then 4, then 8, then combined 8, then combined 16.. The longer the engagement went, the more guns got brought to bear..
I like this. This method is great when the GM wants the PCs to get the heck out of Dodge. By gradually increasing the # of attacks the players get both the time and the incentive to jump to hyperspace, dive into the planetary atmosphere, or head into an asteroid belt instead of being blown to smithereens in round 1 before they even get a chance to run away. And the gradually increasing danger mechanically makes the risk of sticking around and fighting it out clear. The same method would work for a handful of PCs facing a company of stormtroopers.
evilnerf wrote:
Third, you can use star destroyers fire not as an attack, but as an obstacle. Make the players roll piloting to avoid fire. If they fail the piloting roll, they take damage. You can really make this fun by describing in detail how the players ships juke around and befuddle the imperial gunners.
I like this too. I think of this as the big ship using its guns like flak guns in WWII rather than specifically targeting tiny little starfighter-scale individual ships. This method is great for those times when the big enemy craft is an obstacle that the PCs have to struggle with while they attempt something like shooting a Proton Torpedo down a thermal vent shaft.
Using the degree of failure of the avoidance roll to determine damage (as Garhkal suggested) makes sense here.
garhkal wrote:
True, but based on the diff levels for terrain, having lots of ships around you FIRING at you should qualify you as moderate or higher in the terrain levels..
While that would be true if there were lots of ships flying around in a dogfight, the original example in the thread was 1 PC ship vs. 1 Star Destroyer.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaaaaaaaaaand.... Bren is still alive after all! Welcome back!
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaand.... Bren is still alive after all! Welcome back!

+1
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. Its nice to see some familiar names and faces are still here.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
While that would be true if there were lots of ships flying around in a dogfight, the original example in the thread was 1 PC ship vs. 1 Star Destroyer.


However, as we saw in both ESB and ATOC, the sheer amount of blasts coming in at both Obi-wan and Han when they were one on one vs an enemy did make piloting a bit more difficult from what it seemed. So one COULD see the more blasts going on (from the big guns, kind of like creating a flack screen) would do just as much to make the 'terrain harsher' as actual obstacles..
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
However, as we saw in both ESB and ATOC, the sheer amount of blasts coming in at both Obi-wan and Han when they were one on one vs an enemy did make piloting a bit more difficult from what it seemed. So one COULD see the more blasts going on (from the big guns, kind of like creating a flack screen) would do just as much to make the 'terrain harsher' as actual obstacles..
Oh sure as a GM I might interpret things that way. But that isn't really what the rules say. The rules are referring to a battle with multiple ships moving around like we see in the Death Star Run in ANH or the Battle of Endor or multiple objects like we see in the Hoth asteroid field.
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nuclearwookiee
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Game-wise, there really is no reason for the GM not to make 20 attacks.

Is there any in-game reasoning that all 20 attacks aren't made, if, indeed, the SD captain is trying to destroy his target?


Another thing to remember is the relative scale and range of the target. I don't just mean in terms of a penalty to hit the smaller target. Capital ship weapons are designed to target capital-scale ships at capital-scale ranges. Because a starfighter-scale ship is much smaller, it's much less likely that all 20 turbolasers in a single firing arc will physically be able to point at the target at once. This is especially true in those scenarios where the starfighter-scale ship is skimming the surface of the larger, capital ship.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuclearwookiee wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Game-wise, there really is no reason for the GM not to make 20 attacks.

Is there any in-game reasoning that all 20 attacks aren't made, if, indeed, the SD captain is trying to destroy his target?


Another thing to remember is the relative scale and range of the target. I don't just mean in terms of a penalty to hit the smaller target. Capital ship weapons are designed to target capital-scale ships at capital-scale ranges. Because a starfighter-scale ship is much smaller, it's much less likely that all 20 turbolasers in a single firing arc will physically be able to point at the target at once. This is especially true in those scenarios where the starfighter-scale ship is skimming the surface of the larger, capital ship.


Good point.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been meaning to come back to this...
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Game-wise, there really is no reason for the GM not to make 20 attacks.

Is there any in-game reasoning that all 20 attacks aren't made, if, indeed, the SD captain is trying to destroy his target?

No. But he won't make 20 individual attacks, since each attack would suffer a -6D Scale penalty to Fire Control. The best choice would be for the captain to combine fire, then apply the bonus to Fire Control to offset the scale penalty.

nuclearwookiee wrote:
Another thing to remember is the relative scale and range of the target. I don't just mean in terms of a penalty to hit the smaller target. Capital ship weapons are designed to target capital-scale ships at capital-scale ranges. Because a starfighter-scale ship is much smaller, it's much less likely that all 20 turbolasers in a single firing arc will physically be able to point at the target at once. This is especially true in those scenarios where the starfighter-scale ship is skimming the surface of the larger, capital ship.

I've played around with this before. My idea was to allow smaller scale ships to get to less than Point Blank range against a larger scale weapon, but at increased terrain Difficulty due to the close proximity. I couldn't ever come up with a system that I liked, though...
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait a minute... arent some of a SD's weapons starfighter scale for the exact purpose of engaging smaller craft at close range?
I could have sworn it was so...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Wait a minute... arent some of a SD's weapons starfighter scale for the exact purpose of engaging smaller craft at close range?
I could have sworn it was so...

Not under WEG's stats. WOTC added 40 point defense lasers, but that's D20.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Naaman wrote:
Wait a minute... arent some of a SD's weapons starfighter scale for the exact purpose of engaging smaller craft at close range?
I could have sworn it was so...

Not under WEG's stats. WOTC added 40 point defense lasers, but that's D20.

"The Empire doesn't consider a small, one-manned fighter to be much of a threat; or else, they'd have a tighter defense."

Point defense is for the fighter escorts.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Naaman wrote:
Wait a minute... arent some of a SD's weapons starfighter scale for the exact purpose of engaging smaller craft at close range?
I could have sworn it was so...

Not under WEG's stats. WOTC added 40 point defense lasers, but that's D20.

"The Empire doesn't consider a small, one-manned fighter to be much of a threat; or else, they'd have a tighter defense."

Point defense is for the fighter escorts.

In context, General Dodonna was talking specifically about the Death Star, not necessarily the Empire as a whole. And with what we now know about the Clone Wars, and the Separatist use of the "endless barrage of expendable fighters" tactic, it just doesn't ring true anymore.
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