The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Blind Hyperspace Jumps
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules -> Blind Hyperspace Jumps Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2411

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Here's another question in the same vein; Rogue One very clearly shows a ship jumping into hyperspace well within the gravity well of a planet. The only way this is possible under the RAW / EU is if the ship in question disengages their hyperdrive cut-out, which is obviously dangerous enough that it is purely a desperation move.

So how would you rule it if a character tried this, such as if trying to escape an Interdictor?


I guess you as a GM have to decide, the raw are obviously from before the last movie Wink

I'll stick to the raw, perhaps allowing jumps at the outer edge of the gravity well with a risk of damaging or even destroying the ship..
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11482
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the thing; strictly speaking, what we see in Rogue One is possible under WEG's description of how hyperspace works, in that what keeps a hyperdrive from functioning in close proximity to a gravity well is not gravity itself, but rather a system built into hyperdrives that detects gravity.

Which means that what we see in Rogue One is possible under the normal functioning of hyperdrives as described by WEG. WEG just didn't include rules for such in the RAW.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1296
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
That's the thing; strictly speaking, what we see in Rogue One is possible under WEG's description of how hyperspace works, in that what keeps a hyperdrive from functioning in close proximity to a gravity well is not gravity itself, but rather a system built into hyperdrives that detects gravity.

Which means that what we see in Rogue One is possible under the normal functioning of hyperdrives as described by WEG. WEG just didn't include rules for such in the RAW.


So what Cassian essentially did when he jumped away from Jedha is basically the Star Wars analogue of the Star Trek version of "shutting off the holodeck safeties?" That has possibilities....

Cassian's flippant-but-annoyed retort of "I'll make them for you" to K-2SO's "I haven't finished my calculations!" seems to bear this out, at least to my mind. It was was a risky move to be sure, but what choice did they have? If they didn't take that chance, they were screwed anyway.
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bren
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3605
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
That's the thing; strictly speaking, what we see in Rogue One is possible under WEG's description of how hyperspace works, in that what keeps a hyperdrive from functioning in close proximity to a gravity well is not gravity itself, but rather a system built into hyperdrives that detects gravity.

Which means that what we see in Rogue One is possible under the normal functioning of hyperdrives as described by WEG. WEG just didn't include rules for such in the RAW.


So what Cassian essentially did when he jumped away from Jedha is basically the Star Wars analogue of the Star Trek version of "shutting off the holodeck safeties?" That has possibilities....

But do we see anything in the movie that supports or shows Cassian doing something unusual to allow his ship to jump from a gravity well or even that he or anyone else thinks he is doing something extremely dangerous and reckless when he makes that jump?

(I ask because I don't remember whether there was or was not anything. I haven't watched this since it left the theaters.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11482
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We see Cassian manipulate several controls as the ship jumps. Without knowing the specific function of each button, any one of them could have deactivated the cut-out:
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
MrNexx
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 1232
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the simplest option is to allow that some actions were elided from what we see on screen. Cassian cut out the hyperdrive safeties, did a quick jump to a more distant point in the system, and then recalculated for a sane trip. It's the kind of thing that is possible, but not advised except in cases of "We are going to die either way."
_________________
"I’m telling you, you’ll never have a deeper sleep than curled up in a Wookie’s lap."
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11482
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
I think the simplest option is to allow that some actions were elided from what we see on screen. Cassian cut out the hyperdrive safeties, did a quick jump to a more distant point in the system, and then recalculated for a sane trip. It's the kind of thing that is possible, but not advised except in cases of "We are going to die either way."

That's my thinking as well. Maybe something as simple as, "okay, you jump to hyperspace, but you automatically suffer a Mishap; roll on the Astrogation Mishap table."
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1296
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
I think the simplest option is to allow that some actions were elided from what we see on screen. Cassian cut out the hyperdrive safeties, did a quick jump to a more distant point in the system, and then recalculated for a sane trip. It's the kind of thing that is possible, but not advised except in cases of "We are going to die either way."

That's my thinking as well. Maybe something as simple as, "okay, you jump to hyperspace, but you automatically suffer a Mishap; roll on the Astrogation Mishap table."


Cassian executing a microjump from Jedha just to get away from the Death Star blast certainly strikes me as plausible. Too bad it was offscreen if it did happen, but then, that's the sort of thing that any film director and/or editor would get rid of as it would be a mostly irrelevant hiccup that interrupted pacing.

(Woot! 750 posts! Captain of the Line, y'all!)
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrNexx
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 1232
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
I think the simplest option is to allow that some actions were elided from what we see on screen. Cassian cut out the hyperdrive safeties, did a quick jump to a more distant point in the system, and then recalculated for a sane trip. It's the kind of thing that is possible, but not advised except in cases of "We are going to die either way."

That's my thinking as well. Maybe something as simple as, "okay, you jump to hyperspace, but you automatically suffer a Mishap; roll on the Astrogation Mishap table."


Cassian executing a microjump from Jedha just to get away from the Death Star blast certainly strikes me as plausible. Too bad it was offscreen if it did happen, but then, that's the sort of thing that any film director and/or editor would get rid of as it would be a mostly irrelevant hiccup that interrupted pacing.


Yeah, that's the kind of detail the nerds wank over, but everyone else will say "Why the hell did they include that?" Mind you, there's ways to pace that in (having a conversation while K2 makes the calculations for a new jump), but those can also be done by having that conversation en route.

Quote:

(Woot! 750 posts! Captain of the Line, y'all!)


I better step up my game.
_________________
"I’m telling you, you’ll never have a deeper sleep than curled up in a Wookie’s lap."
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11482
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Mind you, there's ways to pace that in (having a conversation while K2 makes the calculations for a new jump), but those can also be done by having that conversation en route.

I actually just watched that sequence pursuant to a conversation over on G+, and the sequence is:

1). U-Wing jumps to Lightspeed

2). Post-Jedha confrontation between Tarkin and Krennic aboard the Death Star

3). Message from Cassian received by Alliance base on Yavin; General Draven dictates a response instructing Cassian to proceed as instructed (kill Galen Erso).

4). U-Wing in Hyperspace, with Cassian receiving the message from Yavin.


So, yes, there is plenty of off-screen time in which the U-Wing could've dropped out of hyperspace, recalculated a hyperdrive course for Eadu, and jumped back into hyperspace.

It's even possible that Cassian sent his message to Yavin while the jump was recalculating, which would clear up some of the Canon/WEG conflict as to the sending and receiving of messages in hyperspace...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1296
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one thing I noticed: In that scene where Cassian tells K-2 to set the new course for Eadu, the scene continues for quite a while while Jyn discusses the nature of the "trap" Galen rigged inside the Death Star. If you watch carefully, you see the blue hyperspace flashes reflected on their faces all through the scene. And that's a good five minutes from when K-2 said he was changing course for Eadu. Which means that K-2 never dropped out of hyperspace the whole time they were talking.

Yeah, this is another one of those details that "the nerds wank about," as MrNexx so eloquently put it.

But yeah, of all the Star Wars movies, it's Rogue One that most of all embodies Traveling At The Speed of Plot.
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bren
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3605
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
(Woot! 750 posts! Captain of the Line, y'all!)


I better step up my game.
Yeah. He's catching up to you at the speed of plot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrNexx
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 1232
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
There is one thing I noticed: In that scene where Cassian tells K-2 to set the new course for Eadu, the scene continues for quite a while while Jyn discusses the nature of the "trap" Galen rigged inside the Death Star. If you watch carefully, you see the blue hyperspace flashes reflected on their faces all through the scene. And that's a good five minutes from when K-2 said he was changing course for Eadu. Which means that K-2 never dropped out of hyperspace the whole time they were talking.

Yeah, this is another one of those details that "the nerds wank about," as MrNexx so eloquently put it.

But yeah, of all the Star Wars movies, it's Rogue One that most of all embodies Traveling At The Speed of Plot.


TBH, I'm glad they toss in details like that for us to wank about. It brings us joy to have such things, since we're all wankers. Wink
_________________
"I’m telling you, you’ll never have a deeper sleep than curled up in a Wookie’s lap."
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11482
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
There is one thing I noticed: In that scene where Cassian tells K-2 to set the new course for Eadu, the scene continues for quite a while while Jyn discusses the nature of the "trap" Galen rigged inside the Death Star. If you watch carefully, you see the blue hyperspace flashes reflected on their faces all through the scene. And that's a good five minutes from when K-2 said he was changing course for Eadu. Which means that K-2 never dropped out of hyperspace the whole time they were talking.

And that's a turning point moment for me. A lot of what I've designed as far as stats and house rules is based on the premise that the films ultimately override WEG. WEG gave us an explanation for how hyperspace works in the SWU, but it is ultimately not fully supported by in-film evidence. Even in the OT, there was no restriction placed on altering a hyperspace course without leaving hyperspace.

As a compromise, I'd say that changing course while still in hyperspace increases the Difficulty, but is not flat-out impossible. The in-universe explanation would be that dropping out of hyperspace allows ships to get a more accurate fix on their exact location as a starting point for the next jump, but this takes time, which is not always an option.

Alternately, it could be argued that this ability is only possible with certain craft, such as a U-Wing modified for Intel work, with advanced navigation and comms systems (that permit the transmission of simple-text messaging via the Holonet while in hyperspace).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11482
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another possible tech solution from the later years of Legends is the Bakuran Hyperwave Sustainer from the Corellian Trilogy. It allows a starship to continue a hyperspace jump (at reduced speed) while inside a gravity well or interdiction field.
    Hyperwave Sustainer: Allows travel in an interdiction field with a Very Difficult capital ship piloting roll for each round the vessel is attempting to travel. In addition, the hyperdrive speed of the vessel is reduced to x12. Failure to make at least an Easy total results in a mishap.
Cracken's Threat Dossier lists it as a Capital-scale device (for whatever that's worth), but I could see this being available as an experimental, highly illegal device on par with the N-CRAB from Galladinium's Fantastic Technology...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 2 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0