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Lucky Chance: The Other Side of Complications
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Lucky Chance: The Other Side of Complications Reply with quote

So, I was listening to Aftermath on the way in to work, and an idea occurred to me that I want to run by y'all. I call it the "Lucky Chance", and it's another way to use the Wild Die.

For reference, here's how I handle a One on the Wild Die:

Quote:

My rule of thumb is to always subtract the highest die, then consider the results:

If "minus highest" is still a success, then they get a "Yes, but"... a success but a complication. Luke figuring out how to lock the door, but missing that it will also prevent them from extending the bridge.

If minus highest is a failure, but would've succeeded with that die? Simple failure.

If the full value wouldn't have succeeded anyway, then you get a failure plus a complication... Han trying to hotwire the door on Endor's moon, but accidentally closing the door that's already opened.


So, here's my thought on another way to handle a 6 on the wild die:

If the total, without any wild die rerolls, is a success (i.e. if you are rolling 4D against a 13 difficulty, and your dice are 4 4 4 6w), then you get a "Yes, and"... not just a success, but some lucky chance on top of that.

If you're slicing a system and get a "Yes and", you not only locate which pad the bounty hunter is on, but learn that the ugnaughts disabled your hyperdrive... and how to fix it. You dodge out of the way, and so the blast doesn't just miss, but it hits something behind you (like a stormtrooper, or a door you wanted open anyway). A cinematic bonus when the explosion of the wild die is superfluous.

Now, obviously, this is more likely to happen when you are rolling a ton of dice, so lots of Yes ands will appear when you're spending force points and character points... but I don't consider that to be a negative.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this. We have occasionally done things like this intuitively without actually calling it a "rule."

Just a question: do you allow players the option not to roll the wild die (you said you always introduce a complication on a "1," which seems very frequnt to me).
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I like this. We have occasionally done things like this intuitively without actually calling it a "rule."

Just a question: do you allow players the option not to roll the wild die (you said you always introduce a complication on a "1," which seems very frequnt to me).


I haven't, but it's not a bad idea. Take a voluntary -1D to avoid any complications? I can see that being appealing in a lot of situations.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea is OK. I think what I stray away from is all the figuring. There's too many if-then results. I think it would bog down my roll-n-go game.

Maybe that's because I'm not quick at figuring.

What I used to use--and I'm not saying its perfect--is, when a one on a Wild Die shows up, the GM rolls a single 1D behind the screen.

1-3 Remove Largest and Lowest from the Total.

4-5 Add up Normally

6 Complication (based on whether task was a success).



For us, this kept Complications rare but not unknown--which felt about right.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems a little clunky, what with trying to figure out "did they succeed without rerolling it, then if =..
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SWOdyssey
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way we decided to handle the Wild Die (1) roll in our hybrid system is as follows:

First off, it's not mandatory for GMs to rule upon a Wild Die. It is entirely optional in that, a GM may (if he or she wishes) consider awarding the player a 'random complication' to spice up the situation going on in game.

Once the GM has decided to put the Wild Die into play, they roll a 1D100.

A low result (1-20) normally means something bad happens (a tentative list of what could happen is shown below for reference), a mid-low result (20-40) is usually something 'okay', not too bad; but still bad. A mid-level result (40-60) is usually something neutral, might be good or bad, or no effect. A mid-high result (60-80) is something decent, but not too good, and a high result (80-100+) is usually pretty good for the roller.


Random Complication Examples:


Lets take a look at an example of a character shooting at an Imperial Stormtrooper. Listed below are R-comp numbers (using the 1-100 roll system) and what could potentially happen. As you are the GM, ANYTHING is possible, but please take note of what a character is doing, and if their equipment is fail-safe or not. As an aside - DO NOT kill a character with a Random Complication, they're supposed to be just that (Random). The RComp may be used to save a character's life, but if a roll is Life or Death, and they RComp it - have them re-roll to be fair, or take the raw number rolled. Now back to the RComp results for our example, above (keep in mind, these are only examples themselves; actual results will vary with individual GM):

    RComp Roll: 10 Result: E-11 overloading: will explode in 1D rounds. Character misses.
    RComp Roll: 30 Result: Grazing shot, -3D damage. Power pack burn out.
    RComp Roll: 50 Result: No effect
    RComp Roll: 70 Result: E-11 deals +1D damage from hitting a good location. Marginal miss (or tied roll) becomes a hit.
    RComp Roll: 100 Result: BOOM HEADSHOT, enemy dead. +3D damage. Etc.

Please note that the above are examples ONLY: as a GM your possibilities are ENDLESS.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWOdyssey wrote:
First off, it's not mandatory for GMs to rule upon a Wild Die. It is entirely optional in that, a GM may (if he or she wishes) consider awarding the player a 'random complication' to spice up the situation going on in game.


My Game Experience: I tried this. I'd usually consider the one on the Wild Die to mean remove the Lowest and Largest. But, occasionally, I would leave the dice the same and instead throw in what I thought was a neat complication.

I found that my players thought that I was singling them out, hitting them with a penalty (when I was just trying to spice the game up). They wanted the Lowest and Largest result--a low number and a failed task they could live with. They rolled it. But, if I picked and chose when something "interesting" would happen--when a new obstacles would come their way because of the Wild Die--they didn't think I was being fair.

Which is what led to the dicing for the result. That way, a player didn't feel like I had singled him out and given his character a penalty complication.

It's one thing if the GM invokes the complication willy-nilly. It's another if it's just plainly rolled.

Dice are impartial. And, even though I wasn't being partial to any particular player, it may look that way to the players if I chose to be inspired and place a nifty complication on one PC and not do the same to the next player when he rolled a Wild Die 1.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Seems a little clunky, what with trying to figure out "did they succeed without rerolling it, then if =..


I'm not following that as clunky... add the dice on the table. If the wild die is a 6 and the total as-is is a success, then they get a benny. If it's a failure, then they roll that wild die again and add some more.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Seems a little clunky, what with trying to figure out "did they succeed without rerolling it, then if =..


I'm not following that as clunky... add the dice on the table. If the wild die is a 6 and the total as-is is a success, then they get a benny. If it's a failure, then they roll that wild die again and add some more.


I think he's talking about all the variable outcomes, which is what I was talking about. Are you not using the above with the other stuff you mentioned? The Yes but, the simple failure, and failure plus complication.

If you are comfortable with it, then that's awesome, but it does seem a bit too fiddly for my game.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But...if the difficulty is a 13, and you roll a 6 on the wild die and add that on, you are getting a higher than what you needed.

In my game, if you surpass what you needed by a threshold then you have done it exceedingly well....which amounts to your 'yes, and..' result.

So...what I'm saying is that you can get that effect with what is already being done...rolling that wild die and adding it up to the total.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Seems a little clunky, what with trying to figure out "did they succeed without rerolling it, then if =..


I'm not following that as clunky... add the dice on the table. If the wild die is a 6 and the total as-is is a success, then they get a benny. If it's a failure, then they roll that wild die again and add some more.


I think he's talking about all the variable outcomes, which is what I was talking about. Are you not using the above with the other stuff you mentioned? The Yes but, the simple failure, and failure plus complication.

If you are comfortable with it, then that's awesome, but it does seem a bit too fiddly for my game.


Exactly Wajeb... Having to figure out those variable outcomes is the clunkyness..
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
But...if the difficulty is a 13, and you roll a 6 on the wild die and add that on, you are getting a higher than what you needed.

In my game, if you surpass what you needed by a threshold then you have done it exceedingly well....which amounts to your 'yes, and..' result.

So...what I'm saying is that you can get that effect with what is already being done...rolling that wild die and adding it up to the total.


Only by a similar house rule, though.

RAW, if the Difficulty is 10 and you roll a 40, you've gotten success. You don't get a great success, you don't necessarily complete it faster, you don't do any additional damage if shooting someone... you did the thing. Yay you. There's no equivalent to Savage World's Raise system, where exceeding the difficulty by X is better than exceeding the difficulty by 1 to (X-1), or where exceeding the difficulty by 2X is better than exceeding by X.

Options for succeeding exceedingly well are quite reasonable house rules, and this is somewhat like that... if you succeed without rerolling the wild die, and the wild die is a 6, then you get a benefit. It makes the 6 on a wild die special even if you succeed at the task without the reroll. Taking my sample above, a difficulty of 13 on 4D, where the dice come up 4 4 6 4w, you have the same total, but no benefit.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Only by a similar house rule, though.

RAW, if the Difficulty is 10 and you roll a 40, you've gotten success. You don't get a great success, you don't necessarily complete it faster, you don't do any additional damage if shooting someone... you did the thing. Yay you. There's no equivalent to Savage World's Raise system, where exceeding the difficulty by X is better than exceeding the difficulty by 1 to (X-1), or where exceeding the difficulty by 2X is better than exceeding by X.


In 1E it is an optional rule, see page 30.
Quote:
Interpreting Rolls (Optional)
Sometimes you want to know how well a player did
something - whether he did great, or really botched it.
Use the number he rolls as an indication of performance.
We don't want to get too bogged down in detail, here;
suffice it to say that a roll which is much higher than the
difficulty number is a spectacular success, and a roll which
is much lower is a spectacular failure.


And still later the Spec Force Sourcebook had detailed optional rules for doing extra damage both for martial arts and for ordinary combat skills. These detailed rules specified doing X points more damage for exceeding the difficulty by Y and for doing Z-dice more damage for making the difficulty z-dice more difficult.
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