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danger sense and mentally challenged folk
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: danger sense and mentally challenged folk Reply with quote

Am currently about 11 chapters into the SW novel, the Approaching Storm, where Obi-wan, Anakin, Barris Offee and Luminua are on a planet trying to mediate a dispute that can see the planet shift to joining the separatists or not.

One thing in that novel, was the local hutt, who figured out 'if someone's mentally imparred' danger sense wouldn't twing on their wanting to harm/capture you (as it was done on Barris offee)..

Has anyone ever thought of that for a game? Where the mentality of the individual can act as a buffer against danger sense? Like say a hungry animal has no malice towards his intended lunch, so danger sense won't twing to warn the jedi??
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds dubious to me... but, I interpret danger sense as more than just detecting the intent to attack. Instead, I look at it as the detection of danger itself ("I'm the only human who can do it."... "You must have Jedi reflexes if you race pods.").

Im sure there are other examples I could dig up, but for example, a droid's attack is not protected from danger sense, despite the fact that droids dont "think" (else there'd be none of us here), so the "intent" or "malice" is not what is setting off the danger sense.

Bottom line: I just disagree with the novel, I guess.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was an interesting way to change things up. BUT i agree, it is kind of straining credulity especially since the films have shown danger sense working differently..
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: danger sense and mentally challenged folk Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Am currently about 11 chapters into the SW novel, the Approaching Storm

That novel sucks, dude. In my review, I called it When Animals Attack Jedi: The Approaching Drizzle. I'll have to look up the novels you've read in the novels thread and send you some reading recommendations.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: danger sense and mentally challenged folk Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Like say a hungry animal has no malice towards his intended lunch, so danger sense won't twing to warn the jedi??
Pretty sure that would-be-lunch prey animals find hungry predators malicious.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gonna quote Chirrut in Whill's signature:

Quote:
"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill."


I would imagine hungry animals are included. I also think that danger sense works against traps, explosions and such, and so the mental capacity of the attacker is a moot point.

The only way that I could see an attacker beating a Jedi's danger sense is out-rolling his sense roll with Perception or Willpower, thereby blocking the Jedi's ability to zero in on where the threat is coming from. Danger sense will still go off, but pinpointing the attack or source of attack wouldn't happen.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's plausible, IMO. We already have precedent in the SWU of some alien races being resistant to the Force (Hutts and Toydarians). I could see it as a modifier that pushes Difficulty levels higher than normal, say +5 or +10. Let the Jedi roll to bring up Danger Sense at the normal Moderate Difficulty, but dont tell him that the modifier pushed the Difficulty to Very Difficult for threats from that particular character.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No-one tends to agree with my way of doing things, but I'll actually allow a sneak roll against a modified difficulty to overcome the danger sense power (since sneak is a perception skill).

In many cases, I'll allow a perception based skill to overcome an opposing sense roll, but the perception skill takes a penalty in doing so (but is usually still better than rolling just "perception").
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Urban Spaceman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danger Sense isn't always to let you know of an attack from a persons emotional state though, is it?
For example, Luke tried to stop Chewie from reaching out for the meat trap on Endor. I'd never read that as Luke picking up some malicious feelings from nearby Ewoks, more that he sensed the danger itself, and realised the meat was a trap (slightly too late in that case).

Unless the hunk of meat was a particularly malicious hunk of meat, of course.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urban Spaceman wrote:
Danger Sense isn't always to let you know of an attack from a persons emotional state though, is it?
For example, Luke tried to stop Chewie from reaching out for the meat trap on Endor. I'd never read that as Luke picking up some malicious feelings from nearby Ewoks, more that he sensed the danger itself, and realised the meat was a trap (slightly too late in that case).

Unless the hunk of meat was a particularly malicious hunk of meat, of course.

Very Happy

Agreed. My feeling was always that Danger Sense needed a little more complexity than just a simple Moderate Difficulty = you are aware of all attacks before they happen. A non-lethal trap should, IMO, present less of a direct threat and thus be harder to detect. Zahn did something similar in Specter of the Past, using a non-lethal trap to immobilize Luke, then setting their asteroid base to self-destruct as they evacuated.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
No-one tends to agree with my way of doing things, but I'll actually allow a sneak roll against a modified difficulty to overcome the danger sense power (since sneak is a perception skill).

In many cases, I'll allow a perception based skill to overcome an opposing sense roll, but the perception skill takes a penalty in doing so (but is usually still better than rolling just "perception").

This is in accordance with the RAW, but I have always taken issue with the RAW on this point. How is the ability to move quietly supposed to overcome the ability to sense events before they happen?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, it depends on how Danger Sense works. Is it empathic ("I can sense this person has feelings towards killing me") or precognitive ("I see a flash of the future in which I am being killed")? In the first case, then you might get a defensive benefit from not having conventional emotional reactions to things. If it's precognitive, it's irrelevant what you're feeling... a droid will trigger it just fine, because it sees the thing happening, not the emotions that lead to it.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Of course, it depends on how Danger Sense works. Is it empathic ("I can sense this person has feelings towards killing me") or precognitive ("I see a flash of the future in which I am being killed")? In the first case, then you might get a defensive benefit from not having conventional emotional reactions to things. If it's precognitive, it's irrelevant what you're feeling... a droid will trigger it just fine, because it sees the thing happening, not the emotions that lead to it.

I see it as a combination of the two, which creates an opening for non-living attacks to be more effective, but not completely indetectable.
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Urban Spaceman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I see it as a combination of the two, which creates an opening for non-living attacks to be more effective, but not completely indetectable.


Likewise, although I haven't allowed for that in my own game (yet).

I'm conflicted slightly on how clearly I should spell out the nature of the Danger when this comes up. Never been too happy with my running of this.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urban Spaceman wrote:
I'm conflicted slightly on how clearly I should spell out the nature of the Danger when this comes up. Never been too happy with my running of this.
I consider two things.

First, the amount by which the Jedi's roll exceeded the difficulty determines how much information. Just made the roll - all you know is you have a bad feeling about going through that door. Exceed by some amount and you may know that the danger is on the other side of the door (but you won't know if there are bad guys inside or if the room is open to space) or that the danger is in opening the door itself (but you won't know if the door is booby trapped or bad guys inside are targeting the room is open to space). But once the Jedi knows there is danger associated with the door she could then choose to try
    Sense Life to see if anyone (alive) is on the other side of the door.
    Magnify Senses (to look at the door at a micro level and see if that gives them a clue or to check for differences in temperature. between door and wall).
    Shift Sense to detect the com signals of the Spacetroopers waiting in ambush on the other side of the door.
    Get ready to cut a hole in the wall as an entry point and see if the sense of danger went away, if Danger Sense is still warning them, or if that action seems even more dangerous than simply opening the door.

Second, the player should get some actual benefit out of successfully using Danger Sense. I don't have any interest in playing a game of gotcha with Force using PCs. They are often weak enough in other areas that making the player guess what the danger might be in all cases just isn't very interesting and the odds are weighted against the player guessing the right action for the Jedi to take. Playing a Force user with Danger Sense has to have some benefit over not having a Force user with Danger Sense. And since its an RPG quite often there is some danger so just knowing "you think opening that door could be dangerous" doesn't tell the Jedi PC something that their non-Force sensitive, non Force using Bounty Hunter pal didn't already know.
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