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Infiltrate an Imp Station ideas?
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Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Site Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4610
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
But yes, the Jedi Council was particularly scatter-brained not to wonder about where the Grand Army of the Republic came from and how it happened to drop into their lap at just the right moment. I can't argue with that.

I can. There is no indication that the Jedi didn't wonder who paid for the Clone Army.

The Jedi Council knows Master Sifo-Dyas ordered the Clone Army for the Republic ten years earlier. Sifo-Dyas died not long after. They know that a man named Tyranus recruited Jango Fett to be the template for the clone army (or least Obi-Wan doesn't seem get the sense that Jango was lying when he was told that). The Kaminoans wouldn't start working on the Clone Army without payment, and they couldn't start working on it until having access to the template, so the Jedi could have simply found out that Jango Fett had shown up with the payment. Jango Fett was killed before he could be interrogated further and the trail may have gone cold in investigating "Tyranus on a moon a Bogden". The Jedi Council could have found out payment was otherwise sent ten years ago and it's untraceable now.

Just because the Jedi aren't shown on screen to learn who paid for the army or wonder about it, doesn't mean that they didn't.
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3606
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Brain wrote:
The whole intentional design flaw thing in R1 just makes the Rebellion look like a bunch of blundering fools dependent on the Force.
Fixed that for you. Wink

Whill wrote:
Just because the Jedi aren't shown on screen to learn who paid for the army or wonder about it, doesn't mean that they didn't.
Investigating why all that was done a bit sooner and quite a bit harder would have been nice.

And its not like the payment would be an insignificant amount of money. Setting aside the matter of how much of the payment would be profit for the Kaminoans, simply buying or building the infrastructure and supplies necessary to create, feed, train, cloth, and house an army of millions of clones cannot have been cheap. I assume existing infrastructure would be insufficient especially since the Kaminoans were continuing to produce clones up to (and past?) the end of Clone Wars. The number of state or corporate actors with sufficient finances to foot the bill would seem to be pretty limited.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With as big as the republic's budget was back in those times, imo such a expenditure could have easily been done with some creative accounting.. Much like IRL we see hammers bought by govt contractors costing 40 bucks where you could waltz into home depo and get one for 15 bucks..
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4610
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
There is no indication that the Jedi didn't wonder who paid for the Clone Army... Just because the Jedi aren't shown on screen to learn who paid for the army or wonder about it, doesn't mean that they didn't.
Bren wrote:
Investigating why all that was done a bit sooner and quite a bit harder would have been nice.

I may not be following your meaning. Do you mean it would be more to your satisfaction to see the Jedi investigating that in a live action film? Like in the denouement of AotC? Otherwise, without it being shown in the films, there could have been a very soon (immediately following AotC) and very in-depth investigation with the outcomes I mentioned previously. I was ok with that stuff only being referred to the novels.

Bren wrote:
And its not like the payment would be an insignificant amount of money. Setting aside the matter of how much of the payment would be profit for the Kaminoans, simply buying or building the infrastructure and supplies necessary to create, feed, train, cloth, and house an army of millions of clones cannot have been cheap. I assume existing infrastructure would be insufficient especially since the Kaminoans were continuing to produce clones up to (and past?) the end of Clone Wars. The number of state or corporate actors with sufficient finances to foot the bill would seem to be pretty limited.

After Dooku left the Jedi he reclaimed his birth nobility rank and family wealth. Dooku supplied the initial payment, whatever minimum the Kaminoans required for the initial order. They probably wouldn't require payment in full because they believed that the army was for the Republic and trusted the credit of the Republic. But half or whatever it was, I would agree that it would still be astronomical. If you feel that is still unbelievable because Dooku's rich family wouldn't be able to front all that himself, then consider that Sidious may may have had access to massive amounts of wealth from secret assets the Sith may have quietly owned and profited from over the 1,000 years they were hiding in the shadows preparing for their revenge against the Jedi and Republic.

Regarding the Kaminoans and their clone operations, they would have already had the infrastructure in place before getting the Republic order. Dex Jettster told Obi-Wan the Kaminoans were big money intergalactic cloners, so they were already in the business of cloning before the Republic army of Fett-clones. Before TPM they likely made several smaller armies for multiple clients simultaneously, and when the Republic order came through they used their entire facility for the Republic army. At some point after the Clone Wars, the Kaminoans stopped or slowed producing clones for the Empire who began to conscript or recruit to fill stormtrooper ranks.
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Last edited by Whill on Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sutehp
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Joined: 01 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
At some point after the Clone Wars, the Kaminoans stopped or slowed producing clones for the Empire who began to conscript or recruit to fill stormtrooper ranks.


Judging from appearances involving Rex, Wolfe and Gregor from Rebels, the clone army was disbanded and the Empire gained recruits and conscripts to fill the positions in the Imperial military as the clones were phased out/forced out because of their rapid aging. Furthermore, in the novelization of Rogue One, Mon Mothma makes a reference to the Kaminoan cloning facilities being "decommissioned." Mothma was commenting on how the Rebel Alliance "had to do things differently" from how the Republic waged war during the Clone Wars. She marveled at how effective the Jedi and clone army combination was, but that since the Jedi are gone and the Kaminoan cloning facilities were now shut down, the Rebel Alliance had to find new and innovative ways of waging war against the Empire.

Anyway, my point is, Whill is correct when he says that the Kaminoans stopped making clones for the Empire. According to what Mothma implied, it was the Emperor himself (or someone acting on his orders) who had the Kaminoans stop making clones. It's likely that with the rise of COMPNOR waging its propaganda campaign to program as many galactic citizens into patriotic fanatics, the Empire had no shortage of recruits just begging to enlist to replace the clones. And in the intervening 20 years between ROTS and ANH, the Imperial war machine wound up being way bigger than the Grand Army of the Republic ever was.
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