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Which version of D6 to use to run Indiana Jones Adventures?
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daddystabz
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Which version of D6 to use to run Indiana Jones Adventures? Reply with quote

I’m currently working with another bloke to run the Indiana Jones Adventures D6 game but am not sure which version of the D6 rules would work best with this game. I have heard great things about the Star Wars RPG 1st. edition, as it keeps the game simple and fast moving, which would be needed for an Indiana Jones game. Do you all think 1st. edition Star Wars would work well with Indiana Jones Adventures? The Indy sourcebook mentions you can use Advantages and Disadvantages in the game, which I assume I could add from the 2nd. Edition Revised and Expanded book if we decide to use them. Also, do you think I should add Advanced skills based on the skill lists in Indiana Jones Adventures?
Would I be better off using Star Wars 1st. edition as our rules basis or some other version of the D6 rules?
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO, for simple, yes.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the idea with the D6 Indiana Jones books was originally to use Masterbook, though I'll be honest, I never even made it through reading the core book. The later Indy books, such as the one you referenced, were developed with the intent to convert them over to The D6 System: The Customizeable Roleplaying Game, which is available free under the OGL.

I think the advantages and disadvantages that you're looking for could best come from there, as opposed to D6 Adventure, which was not the best iteration of the rules, IMO -- particularly in regards to the advantages and disadvantages.

But I would be inclined to run the D6 Indiana Jones Adventures with something akin to the 2nd edition rules, with some modifications from The D6 System: The Customizeable Roleplaying Game. Though really, that book was pretty close to 2nd edition.
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daddystabz
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched a video review on YouTube where the reviewer said the Star Wars D6 rules are broken. He stated you would really need the rules additions that came out later. Is this true?

So far, what I've read of the 1s.t edition D6 Star Wars rules I really love for the simplicity.

I am also reading the Star Wars D6 Revised and Expanded rules and it is pretty good so far too.

Which would you go with for the Indina Jones Adventure game for D6? Star Wars D6 1e or Revised and Expanded OR the newer Revised, Expanded and Updated version?
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be 100% honest, I would probably use BRP Astounding Adventures. Basically Call of Cthulhu with a bit more of an Indiana Jonesey flair.

But if we’re sticking to D6, I would use the WEG series devoted to the subject:
  • The D6 System: The Customizable Roleplaying Game
  • Indiana Jones Adventures
  • Indiana Jones Artifacts
  • Indiana Jones and the Sky Pirates and Other Tales
  • Indiana Jones Magic & Mysticism: The Dark Continent
Plus, others on this forum have suggested these two generic supplements:I would also consider the old TSR scenarios based on the even older Marvel comics (but I wouldn’t use the TSR system):

The Ikons of Ikammanen TSR/Marvel
Crystal Death TSR/Marvel
The Golden Goddess TSR/Marvel
The Fourth Nail TSR/Marvel
Nepal Nightmare TSR/Marvel
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daddystabz wrote:

Which would you go with for the Indina Jones Adventure game for D6? Star Wars D6 1e or Revised and Expanded OR the newer Revised, Expanded and Updated version?


Really, the 2nd Edition, Revised and Expanded, or the REUP versions are all just varieties of 2nd edition. It's more like having a 2.0, 2.3, and 2.6 of the same system.

That said, I've read but not played the 1st edition, so your mileage may vary. The changes to combat, damage, vehicle scale, and Wild Die variants make 2nd Edition my system of choice, and I can see how it would play well with the Indiana Jones Adventures. Personally, I tend to run the R&E with some house rules mixed in.
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daddystabz
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are using the official D6 stuff for Indiana Jones Adventures by WEG but the problem is that they do not contain the D6 system rules within them.

Falconer wrote:
To be 100% honest, I would probably use BRP Astounding Adventures. Basically Call of Cthulhu with a bit more of an Indiana Jonesey flair.

But if we’re sticking to D6, I would use the WEG series devoted to the subject:
  • The D6 System: The Customizable Roleplaying Game
  • Indiana Jones Adventures
  • Indiana Jones Artifacts
  • Indiana Jones and the Sky Pirates and Other Tales
  • Indiana Jones Magic & Mysticism: The Dark Continent
Plus, others on this forum have suggested these two generic supplements:I would also consider the old TSR scenarios based on the even older Marvel comics (but I wouldn’t use the TSR system):

The Ikons of Ikammanen TSR/Marvel
Crystal Death TSR/Marvel
The Golden Goddess TSR/Marvel
The Fourth Nail TSR/Marvel
Nepal Nightmare TSR/Marvel
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely understand. I have the same book. There is another book you can legally download for free called The D6 System. It's right here:
https://ogc.rpglibrary.org/images/b/bf/D6_System_Book_weg51005eOGL.pdf

That's the one that your Indiana Jones Adventures expects that you'll use, with the exception of the skill list.

It's very similar to the R&E version of the Star Wars rules. Personally, I would go with a mix between that book and some of the Star Wars R&E rules.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first thing you'd need is a conversion between Masterbook and D6. From there you can more easily see how you'd actually run the game under the D6 system.

As cheshire points out the OGL D6 system book is all you need in terms of rules. The attribute and skill List for Star Wars works for Star Wars but less so for Indiana Jones. I think the Attribute List from Men in Black would work for Indiana Jones: Reflexes, Coordination, Strength, Endurance, Knowledge, Perception, Confidence, and Charisma. The skill List from that game is also really workable. Drop Computer Ops and Alien Technology and you're pretty much set.

If you want to go faster than that take a look at Mini Six which gets the streamlining of 1E Star Wars without having to drop or convert a bunch of Star Wars sci-fi stuff into 1930s Earth.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Indiana Jones Adventures is built pretty well to exist without the need of conversion from Masterbook. It also has a recommended set of Attributes and Skills on page 5, followed by explanations of those skills and attributes. So he should do alright once he lands on which set of rules he wants to use.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Which version of D6 to use to run Indiana Jones Adventur Reply with quote

Yes, Indiana Jones Adventures coupled with The D6 System is a complete game system, and it allows for easy use with the Masterbook IJ material. Speaking of Open D6, there's also D6 Adventures which would be adequate for an IJ setting.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daddystabz wrote:
I watched a video review on YouTube where the reviewer said the Star Wars D6 rules are broken. He stated you would really need the rules additions that came out later. Is this true?


Not so much broken as having some serious flaws that can really bog the game down.

For example, in 1E whenever somebody dodges, they added their dodge roll to the base difficulty to hit them (determined by range). As a result fight can bog down if the characters involved in a shootout aren't skilled enough to beat the higher difficulty.

A similar problem existed regarding characters such as stormtroopers. After armor STs were rolling 3D with their blasters. Now, since the original difficulty to hit at long range was a 20, STs couldn't hit another character at long range. Smart players would often try to get into a firefight at long range so they wouldn't have to dodge.

Now these problems (and a few others were first addressed in a Rules Upgrade that was about a 4 page pamphlet that was included free with just about all of the first edition adventures. Later the pamphlet was expanded upon and became the 1E Rules Companion Supplement, but the 4 page pamphet fixes most of 1Es major problems.


daddystabz wrote:

So far, what I've read of the 1s.t edition D6 Star Wars rules I really love for the simplicity.


Well, if you can get/download the pamphlet with the corrections, and I'm sure I can find them somewhere if you need them, you can use 1E and have something only slightly more completed than 1E. Basically the key additions are the change in the dodge/parry rules (you substitute the TN with the dodge roll instead of adding it to the base difficulty-unless the character does a full (his only action) defense), and varaible TN ranges for the difficulties - Easy (6-10), Moderate (11-15), Difficult (16-20), etc.

daddystabz wrote:

I am also reading the Star Wars D6 Revised and Expanded rules and it is pretty good so far too.


R&E does fix a lot of the bugs with the previous incarnations of the rules. but is a bit more complex, especially when it comes to wielding a lightsaber. But that aspect of things wouldn't factor into an Indiana Jones campaign.

daddystabz wrote:

Which would you go with for the Indina Jones Adventure game for D6? Star Wars D6 1e or Revised and Expanded OR the newer Revised, Expanded and Updated version?


I'd go with either 1E with the Rules Upgrade, 2E, or 2ER&E. One thing that I think could be important for an Indy game could be scaling. Like Star Wars, the Indy campaign would have quite a few vehicles (tanks, submarines, fighter aircraft, the Hindenburg), so you would probably want to have some sort of system for scaling vehicles with PCs.

As to which one to use, it really depending on what degree of simplify you want compared to options. 2E has things like character points, the wild die, specialization, and advanced skills, that can really help flesh out and differentiate characters, and give heroes a safety net, but at the expense of simplicity. 1E is simpler, but not as detailed and it still has a few things that might not be the best fit.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Not so much broken as having some serious flaws that can really bog the game down.

For example, in 1E whenever somebody dodges, they added their dodge roll to the base difficulty to hit them (determined by range). As a result fight can bog down if the characters involved in a shootout aren't skilled enough to beat the higher difficulty.


Is that a problem or a feature?

The D6 rules--especially 1st edition--were created to capture the thrills of the original trilogy. There's tons of fights where no one gets hit.

Take, for example, a young farm boy, who's never been off his homeworld, swinging across a chasm, with a princess in his arms, while military trained stormtroopers unload on them. Nobody is hit. A multitude of blaster blots are fired.

Or, take, for another example, the opening scene where Rebel Naval troops fight incoming stormtroopers in the corridors of Princess Leia's ship! Tons of blaster fire. A few people hit.

Remember, in 1st edition, when a character is hit, there is always a result. Stun is the minimum result. A character, when hit, cannot shrug off a wound as is done in other versions of the game.

Combat is deadly.

The idea is not to get hit in the first place. There's no cushion, as there is in later editions of the game, with a chance to not be effected by a shot when hit.

I'm a fan of 1st edition, as written, just the core rulebook. Those rule, in my estimation, work extremely well.





Quote:
A similar problem existed regarding characters such as stormtroopers. After armor STs were rolling 3D with their blasters. Now, since the original difficulty to hit at long range was a 20, STs couldn't hit another character at long range. Smart players would often try to get into a firefight at long range so they wouldn't have to dodge.


Sounds to me like Rebels knowing the performance characteristics of their enemy's equipment and training.

Again, this reflects the original trilogy.

It's not that easy to hit someone in the original trilogy--at least for the non-super hero main characters.

And, that's the way it should be!

Because, in 1st edition, if you are hit, you lose all of your actions remaining in the round! If your target hasn't moved yet, then he is robbed of everything he was going to do in that round when he's hit--at a minimum!

In later editions, characters who are hit can not only shrug off the wound, but they can also suffer a stun and just be -1D to all other actions--they still get to act.

The point: Getting hit is not as bad as it is in 1st edition, so the focus in 1st edition is not to get hit in the first place.

The way the 1st edition rules are set up, occasional hits will happen, but there will be a lot of blaster bolts flying--just like in the movies!




A NOT ON OTHER EDITIONS OF SW D6: Every edition of the SW D6 game is fantastic. The question to ask yourself is how much crunch do you want? 1st edition is the stripped down version of the game. R&E (or, possibly the R&E fan upgrade) is the most crunchy. Everything in between gives you a more or less customizable game--how much crunch do you want?

In 1st edition, you're not going to throw that many D6 dice. With R&E, you've got skill specialization, advanced skills, character points, and the exploding wild die--all this stuff will increase the number of dice being thrown and the complexity of the game.

Which version suits your tastes?




To answer your question, I'd go with 1st edition, core rulebook, with no addon rules. Just like it's written.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Wajeb Deb Kaadeb"]The point: Getting hit is not as bad as it is in 1st edition, so the focus in 1st edition is not to get hit in the first place.[/qutoe]That's only correct for stun results. 2E is actually far more deadly than 1E. Let's look at the possible results for average Damage Resistance rolls for PCs of 2D, 3D, and 4D Strengths. For STR 2D the SR=7, STR 3D the SR=10.5, and STR 4D the SR=14. This table lists the results.



So we see that damage that would stun a character in 1E will wound, incapacitate, or even mortally wound a character in 2E. Damage that would wound a character in 1E will* incapacitate, mortally wound, or outright kill a character in 2E. Damage that will incapacitate a character in 1E will usually kill a character in 2E, though in a few cases for a character with a low STR roll the 2E character will only be mortally wound instead of killed outright. And finally, any damage that would mortally wound a character in 1E will kill outright a 2E character. 2E is far more deadly than 1E.


* On rare results a character with a low STR roll will be wounded in both editions.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
That's only correct for stun results. 2E is actually far more deadly than 1E.


Your logic is faulty here, though I see why you would say that.

1. It happens much more frequently that the Damage roll will be higher than the STR roll by only a few points.

You agree that the stun in 1st edition is much more deadly. Stun effect happens the most often when a character is shot.

Second, a stunned character loses any action he has not yet performed during the round. This compounds the effect of the stun.



2. 2E uses Character Points, and up to 5 CPs can be used in a defensive roll. This would be hard to calculate, but if 2E characters normally have CPs, then they this greatly decreases the effect of any damage they may take.

With 1E, there are no CPs. When a 1E character is hit, it is a serious matter.

I've played extensively with both versions, and my experience with the game also tells me that 1E is much more deadly than 2E. I ran a 7 year R&E game where not a single PC ever got killed.

In my 1E games, lots of people got killed. The reason is the CPs.
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