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Starkiller Base
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

I'm actually warming up to (instead of rolling my eyes at) the idea of Starkiller Base. I'll admit, I've been super-weaponed-out through reading comics and Star Wars books (mostly in the books--comics only occasionally), but if you consider none of that really exists in the official timeline, there's only the Death Star, the Death Star II, and Starkiller Base.

Yes, I rolled my eyes at thinking, "Not another Death Star!"

But, I'm finally coming around. The First Order is basically a group of has-beens and young wannabees who long for Palpatine's New Order of the past and idolize the Empire.

Why wouldn't the want to prove how much newer and better they are than the object of their admiration? They build the biggest Death Star device ever imagined!

It's a rogue planet, hyperdrive capable, with a superweapon that can not only tunnel through Hyperspace to hit its target but also uses new technology dark matter to enable the weapon to take out an entire star system with one shot!

Yeah, baby, that is STAR WARS SPACE OPERA.





I was thinking of how Starkiller base keeps its atmosphere. There must be some sort of artificial means of doing this--some type of tech that keeps the atmosphere around the planet even in hyperspace, even when outside the habitable zone of a star.

Truly, it is a SUPER weapon.

Good thing the Resistance blew it up.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's got gravity. Should be plenty of force to keep the atmosphere attached. Or attracted. One of those two.

If they manage to focus a hyperspace field big enough to jump the planet, jumping the atmosphere with it should be a trivial matter of making the hyperspace field just a couple of hundred km bigger in diameter.

Personally, I'm fine with Starkiller Base. I'm not fine with the name, but that's a different story. And oddly, I'm looking forward to a couple of things in the new movie, just to see whether it will play out like bad fanfic or be a good addition to Star Wars.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Personally, I'm fine with Starkiller Base. I'm not fine with the name, but that's a different story.


A lot of Star Wars names strike me as odd at first, but eventually I get it, again, they space opera roots of the show. Captain Phasma. The Phantom Menace. Luke Skywalker.

Starkiller Base actually seems fine to me, as a name. After it, the base does kill stars when the weapon is fired.

As I understand it, it's also a nod to Luke Skywalker's original name before it was changed: Luke Starkiller.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
It's got gravity. Should be plenty of force to keep the atmosphere attached. Or attracted. One of those two.

If they manage to focus a hyperspace field big enough to jump the planet, jumping the atmosphere with it should be a trivial matter of making the hyperspace field just a couple of hundred km bigger in diameter.


See, I figure they also supplement the mass-based gravity with artificial gravity, if it's insufficient to maintain the necessary atmosphere... and that planetary shields sufficient to deflect a starship are also sufficient to hold in atmosphere.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
I figure they also supplement the mass-based gravity with artificial gravity, if it's insufficient to maintain the necessary atmosphere.

At the relatively small size it is stated to be in canon, it certainly would need artificial gravity to supplement it's own weaker natural gravity to hold the Human (and Wookiee) breathable atmosphere. But the trees look like trees that would evolve and live in a gravity near Earth's, so were forests transplanted from elsewhere? There doesn't seem to be any reason to do that, so it makes more sense that those are the natural trees of the planet and the planet is much larger with a natural gravity near Earth's gravity. However the larger scale makes the artificial reconstruction seem even less plausible, which may have been why they made the planet so small. So either way, the planet is extremely improbably for different reasons. It wouldn't need to be hyperspace-capable (taking it to another ridiculous level) unless the star it drains to fire the weapon is drained permanently.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
I figure they also supplement the mass-based gravity with artificial gravity, if it's insufficient to maintain the necessary atmosphere.

At the relatively small size it is stated to be in canon, it certainly would need artificial gravity to supplement it's own weaker natural gravity to hold the Human (and Wookiee) breathable atmosphere. But the trees look like trees that would evolve and live in a gravity near Earth's, so were forests transplanted from elsewhere? There doesn't seem to be any reason to do that, so it makes more sense that those are the natural trees of the planet and the planet is much larger with a natural gravity near Earth's gravity. However the larger scale makes the artificial reconstruction seem even less plausible, which may have been why they made the planet so small. So either way, the planet is extremely improbably for different reasons. It wouldn't need to be hyperspace-capable (taking it to another ridiculous level) unless the star it drains to fire the weapon is drained permanently.


I figure it's an energy efficient air-conditioning (i.e. CO2/Oxygen transfer) system. IF you're going to keep a breathable atmosphere on the surface, then bringing in plants to process that atmosphere is energy efficient and possibly morale boosting. It would also give them a training environment other than "Frozen Wasteland"
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Whill wrote:
At the relatively small size it is stated to be in canon, it certainly would need artificial gravity to supplement it's own weaker natural gravity to hold the Human (and Wookiee) breathable atmosphere. But the trees look like trees that would evolve and live in a gravity near Earth's, so were forests transplanted from elsewhere? There doesn't seem to be any reason to do that, so it makes more sense that those are the natural trees of the planet and the planet is much larger with a natural gravity near Earth's gravity. However the larger scale makes the artificial reconstruction seem even less plausible, which may have been why they made the planet so small. So either way, the planet is extremely improbably for different reasons. It wouldn't need to be hyperspace-capable (taking it to another ridiculous level) unless the star it drains to fire the weapon is drained permanently.

I figure it's an energy efficient air-conditioning (i.e. CO2/Oxygen transfer) system. IF you're going to keep a breathable atmosphere on the surface, then bringing in plants to process that atmosphere is energy efficient and possibly morale boosting. It would also give them a training environment other than "Frozen Wasteland"

And that would go along with the theory that the Starkiller Base is a very ancient device that was discovered by the First Order and used. Maybe the article gravity and atmosphere system goes back thousands of years and the forests grew there naturally in the terraformed environment.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
And that would go along with the theory that the Starkiller Base is a very ancient device that was discovered by the First Order and used.


What blows that out of the water is Snoke's new flagship that we will see in Episode VIII, the Supremacy.

This thing is has a new design direction--a flying wing instead of an arrow-head. And, it's wingspan is about equal to the radius of the first Death Star.

Equal to about three Executors, lined up.

Equal to a line of 36 Imperial class Star Destroyers.

Equal to a line of 21 Finalizers.

It's a BIG FREAKIN' SHIP!

It's the largest ship ever seen in the Star Wars movies (if you consider the Death Stars and Starkiller Base as mobile bases and battlestations, not ships).



It also tends to indicate two things:

1 - The First Order has almost unlimited resources--more or about the same amount of resources that the Empire did at it height.

2 - That the First Order prefers mobile platforms instead of planet-based centers of power, i.e. Starkiller Base. And, the Supremacy is supposed to be, in addition to a Mega-Stardestroyer, the Command HQ for the FO Fleet, and is a mobile dry dock for other vessels.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Whill wrote:
And that would go along with the theory that the Starkiller Base is a very ancient device that was discovered by the First Order and used.

What blows that out of the water is Snoke's new flagship that we will see in Episode VIII, the Supremacy...

I completely fail to see how the Supremacy in any way prohibits the Starkiller Base from being an ancient technology they took control of. Yes, the First Order has vast resources and the Supremacy dwarfs the Executor. But in size and power, the Starkiller Base dwarfs Death Star II, and DS2 dwarfs the Supremacy. There is really no comparison between Death Star II and the Supremacy, unless the Supremacy has a super-laser that can destroy planets. The First Order building the Supremacy is not a convincing augment that they definitely built the Starskiller out of a planet from scratch. The scale of the two things are vastly different, and both of the Empire's Death Stars are in between. And even if the Supremacy has a super-laser that can destroy planets, that means they have just miniaturized Death Star technology but it is still vastly different than the scale and power of the Starkiller Base and it's long list of marvels.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I completely fail to see how the Supremacy in any way prohibits the Starkiller Base from being an ancient technology they took control of.


Because, if they've got the tech and resources to build that mammoth ship, then it's not a stretch to accept that they can build Starkiller base.

But, hey, it's Space Opera. I'll accept the official version, and if Starkiller base is ancient tech or some tech brought by aliens from another galaxy, I'll good with that explanation.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Whill wrote:
I completely fail to see how the Supremacy in any way prohibits the Starkiller Base from being an ancient technology they took control of...

Because, if they've got the tech and resources to build that mammoth ship, then it's not a stretch to accept that they can build Starkiller base.

But, hey, it's Space Opera. I'll accept the official version, and if Starkiller base is ancient tech or some tech brought by aliens from another galaxy, I'll good with that explanation.

You disregarded the rest of my post which tried to elucidate exactly how it is a stretch to assume that an entity that can build a Supremacy can build a Starkiller base. Here is a list of the big ships of the Empire and First Order, arranged in order of scale (power, and size), highest at the top. And yes they are all ships because they all had a hyperdrive in canon.

5. Starkiller Base (660 km diameter sphere) Hyperlight weapon that can destroy entire star systems from across the galaxy through hyperspace at FTL speeds!
4. Death Star II (200 km diameter sphere) Superlaser that can at least destroy terrestrial planets (and target capital ships).
3. Death Star I (160 km diameter sphere) Superlaser that can destroy terrestrial planets within the same system.
2. The Supremacy (60 km wingspan non-sphere capital ship)
1. The Executor (19 km long non-sphere capital ship)

We agree that the Empire went up to 4. I am saying the First Order making a 2 does not automatically mean they can make anything above that. You are saying that making a 2 means you can also make a 5. You are basically saying 2 through 5 are all the same.

Now I am certainly not saying the First Order couldn't have built the Starkiller. I am just saying that all of these ships are vastly different from each other (even the difference between the two Death Stars in nothing to sneeze at). The Starkiller is an exponentially giant leap above the Death Star II, and the Supremacy is way below that. The ancient weapon theory for Starkiller is by no means "blown out of the water".
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
You disregarded the rest of my post which tried to elucidate exactly how it is a stretch to assume that an entity that can build a Supremacy can build a Starkiller base.


No, I read it. I just wasn't convinced by your argument. Sad
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

IMO its easier to modify a planet that would be to build Snorks flag ship..
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject: Re: Starkiller Base Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
And that would go along with the theory that the Starkiller Base is a very ancient device that was discovered by the First Order and used. Maybe the article gravity and atmosphere system goes back thousands of years and the forests grew there naturally in the terraformed environment.

I still have serious issues with Starkiller Base (particularly the real-time viewing of the beam from across the galaxy with no relativistic delay), but the idea of it being an ancient device the First Order just happened across makes more sense than anything else I've heard. The EU already has at least one ancient device that can affect the galaxy on a massive scale (Centerpoint Station), so a second device that the neo-Imperialists moved in on and used for their own purposes is, IMO, more plausible than that they built it themselves.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it was made to do something else, NOT actually blow up stars, but when the New order found it, they managed to modify it to work in this manner...
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