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Starkiller Base
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Maybe it was made to do something else.

What, exactly?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Whill wrote:
5. Starkiller Base (660 km diameter sphere) Hyperlight weapon that can destroy entire star systems from across the galaxy through hyperspace at FTL speeds!
4. Death Star II (200 km diameter sphere) Superlaser that can at least destroy terrestrial planets (and target capital ships).
3. Death Star I (160 km diameter sphere) Superlaser that can destroy terrestrial planets within the same system.
2. The Supremacy (60 km wingspan non-sphere capital ship)
1. The Executor (19 km long non-sphere capital ship)

...You are saying that making a 2 means you can also make a 5. You are basically saying 2 through 5 are all the same.

...The Starkiller is an exponentially giant leap above the Death Star II, and the Supremacy is way below that. The ancient weapon theory for Starkiller is by no means "blown out of the water".

No, I just wasn't convinced by your argument.
garhkal wrote:
IMO its easier to modify a planet that would be to build Snorks flag ship..

My only argument was that the ancient weapon theory is not 'blown out of the water'. It is presently still on the table. I can better appreciate sentiments of 'my gut tells me the First Order constructed the Starkiller', but 'the ancient weapon is blown out of the water'? I feel "Blown out of the water" is quite extreme phrase for fanboy speculation.

I find the arguments that 'if you can build a 2 you can build anything' and '5 is easier to build than 2' to not be based on any sort of logic whatsoever (not even space opera nerd logic), so there's nothing further for me to say to that. Good day to you, sirs.

CRMcNeill wrote:
I still have serious issues with Starkiller Base (particularly the real-time viewing of the beam from across the galaxy with no relativistic delay), but the idea of it being an ancient device the First Order just happened across makes more sense than anything else I've heard. The EU already has at least one ancient device that can affect the galaxy on a massive scale (Centerpoint Station), so a second device that the neo-Imperialists moved in on and used for their own purposes is, IMO, more plausible than that they built it themselves.

Starting in 1977, Star Wars films have been filled with all sorts of outrageous technologies, but an FTL super weapon capable of remotely destroying all the planets of a distant solar system and it being viewable in realspace all over the galaxy admittedly strains even my sense of verisimilitude for the SWU. I just choose to swallow the red pill because TFA is such an entertaining movie and love letter to the classic SW trilogy, despite it being a thinly disguised reprise of ANH, my favorite movie for 40 years strong now. RotJ gets more of a pass for unoriginality than TFA does because RotJ is only the second time there was a superweapon (now bigger and more powerful), the first DS was actually taken from the third part when Lucas first expanded his original story into a trilogy, and it was the conclusion of the trilogy (and at the time perhaps Star Wars saga).

I had no doubt that there would be a further escalation of scale in this new trilogy, but I was quite surprised that they put the super-duper Death Star in the first film. Are they going to continue the scale escalation and have another superweapon to be even bigger and badder than the Starkiller? Or be more original for these sequels? Despite loving the reprise I do hope the sequels are more original. I don't let these questions effect my enjoyment of TFA, and at this point I have to remain confident they won't turn Star Wars into a super-weapon-of-the-month club too soon. At least the Starkiller is still more plausible than the Sun Crusher!

Since there is no end in sight for Disney Star Wars, there probably will someday be a future trilogy where there are intergalactic wars with weapons that can destroy entire regions of galaxies, from other galaxies, visible all over the universe in real time!

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Maybe it was made to do something else.

What, exactly?

It's hard to imagine that technology being used for anything else, with such a specific purpose of destroying star systems through hyperspace from across the galaxy.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're speculating about non-explody applications of Starkiller Base, provided it is an old relic ... I'm thinking a hypergate / infinity gate, but which can pick one spacetime coordinate and generate a portal there of quite a large size and duration without any (other) infrastructure locally.

I'm thinking more infinity gate than hypergate, mostly because the infinity gates were explicitly noted to have a weapon-like use through infinity waves - but that might just be a bias on my part, as I dislike blaming the Gree for all sorts of ancient relics of great power.

Anyhow, continuing on the infinity gates - there's a pocket dimension that contains the central control station for the gates, and putting something in there (or generating the pocket dimension) is likely to have required some doing - something on the scale of Starkiller Base.

If I were to suggest some race as the original builders of Starkiller Base, I would likely suggest whomever made the Tho Yor.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hypergate

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Infinity_Gate
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Maybe it was made to do something else.

What, exactly?


Maybe it was made to slowly suck energy from stars that are close to going nova, to prevent them from doing so..?

Zarn wrote:
If we're speculating about non-explody applications of Starkiller Base, provided it is an old relic ... I'm thinking a hypergate / infinity gate, but which can pick one spacetime coordinate and generate a portal there of quite a large size and duration without any (other) infrastructure locally.

I'm thinking more infinity gate than hypergate, mostly because the infinity gates were explicitly noted to have a weapon-like use through infinity waves - but that might just be a bias on my part, as I dislike blaming the Gree for all sorts of ancient relics of great power.

Anyhow, continuing on the infinity gates - there's a pocket dimension that contains the central control station for the gates, and putting something in there (or generating the pocket dimension) is likely to have required some doing - something on the scale of Starkiller Base.

If I were to suggest some race as the original builders of Starkiller Base, I would likely suggest whomever made the Tho Yor.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hypergate

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Infinity_Gate


Maybe it was built as a companion facility to centerpoint station, since it needs lots of gravity/repulsor activity to work, the planet, was used to 'absorb gravity' from suns and funnel it TO centerpoint?
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s a fan theory which I presume is untrue but which I think would be really siick: that the real name of the planet is Jedha, which, after the events of R1, got hauled out somewhere, and work began on making it the Star Killer. Thus it fits it into a larger narrative, making the Death Stars mere prototypes instead of the Star Killer seeming an afterthought. Imagine using it in a campaign (prior to TFA). There’s an obscure but supremely dangerous Imperial Remnant base in the Unknown Regions, but you might want to go there if you need some kyber crystals, or some old texts or artifacts from the ruins of the Temple of the Whills.
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RyanDarkstar
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
There’s a fan theory which I presume is untrue but which I think would be really sick: that the real name of the planet is Jedha, which, after the events of R1, got hauled out somewhere, and work began on making it the Star Killer...


I posted something here about Ilum possibly being Starkiller Base, per Star Wars Explained.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
There’s a fan theory which I presume is untrue but which I think would be really siick: that the real name of the planet is Jedha, which, after the events of R1, got hauled out somewhere, and work began on making it the Star Killer.


I'm not sure I like that. It seems to fall into George's small universe problem.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do we KNOW that the first order actually built Starkiller Base, or did they...
find it and expand upon it, find it and turned on the power.

Was it more than a weapon to the first order..........

once we know the answers to all these we can begin to think about starkiller base and the construction.

to me it seems the first order did not build it, but used and "improved" on it
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
George's small universe problem.

Is that a real problem? Isn’t space ultimately window dressing, and the actual genre some mix of Westerns & Edo Japan & WW2 newsreels? Aren’t you the one always handwaving these sorts of things by asserting that they fall within the conventions of space opera?

Anyway, doesn’t it make some sense? It had to have taken Starkiller Base at least 30 years to build, right? In which case, the two Death Stars really were just prototypes all along. And it’d be no coincidence that the first target for the Death Star I would be part of this plan to create the Starkiller.

Mamatried wrote:
Do we KNOW that the first order actually built Starkiller Base, or did they...
find it and expand upon it, find it and turned on the power.

Was it more than a weapon to the first order..........

once we know the answers to all these we can begin to think about starkiller base and the construction.

to me it seems the first order did not build it, but used and "improved" on it

That’s another great way to go. In The Hand of Thrawn, Luke and Mara discover an ancient fortress that sometime in ages past had been hit by an unknown Death Star-scale weapon. That was a cool idea that was never really explored. Yeah, why not have it lying around in the Unknown Regions, a product of a bygone civilization of which Snoke is the only remnant, or one of the only remnants. The First Order found it or him, or he found them.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
Do we KNOW that the first order actually built Starkiller Base, or did they...
find it and expand upon it, find it and turned on the power.

Was it more than a weapon to the first order..........

once we know the answers to all these we can begin to think about starkiller base and the construction.

to me it seems the first order did not build it, but used and "improved" on it


I just rewatched TFA and the scene where Hux is making his big speech to the First Order troops just before Starkiller is fired for the first time has Hux specifically say the words "this fierce machine which you have built." That means that the First Order did indeed build it. After all, Hux said it.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
Do we KNOW that the first order actually built Starkiller Base, or did they...
find it and expand upon it, find it and turned on the power.

Was it more than a weapon to the first order..........

once we know the answers to all these we can begin to think about starkiller base and the construction.

to me it seems the first order did not build it, but used and "improved" on it


I just rewatched TFA and the scene where Hux is making his big speech to the First Order troops just before Starkiller is fired for the first time has Hux specifically say the words "this fierce machine which you have built." That means that the First Order did indeed build it. After all, Hux said it.


He indeed said so, would he have said so if they built only parts of the base, or weapon?
But yes it seems they may have built it, but again it seems strange to me given they are "tiny" compared to the empire.

What the empire had 10 000+ star destroyers alone, the first order have a HUX an emo biggie bad one cuddling kittens, and about what 5 ships and a dozen landers and such, aka tiny compared to the old empire.

It seems too big a task for this "tiny" group to actually manage in 30 years, so I suspect they took over a previous palpatinian project and expanded from there
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:

I just rewatched TFA and the scene where Hux is making his big speech to the First Order troops just before Starkiller is fired for the first time has Hux specifically say the words "this fierce machine which you have built." That means that the First Order did indeed build it. After all, Hux said it.


Hux is a politician, not a leader.. So he could have lied!
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Sutehp wrote:

I just rewatched TFA and the scene where Hux is making his big speech to the First Order troops just before Starkiller is fired for the first time has Hux specifically say the words "this fierce machine which you have built." That means that the First Order did indeed build it. After all, Hux said it.


Hux is a politician, not a leader.. So he could have lied!


Hux is a general, garhkal. By definition, that makes him a military leader. Not that being a leader and lying are mutually exclusive in any case.

Still, I think I may have missed some snark/sarcasm in your remark. After all, how is Hux going to lie to the First Order troops on Starkiller about whether they actually built the thing they're standing on?

Quote:

Hux:...this fierce machine which you have built...
GY-416: Wait, we built this planet killer as big as a small planet? Did this happen before I was transferred here?
BT-209: Yeah, man, we stood in a big circle as big as the Death Star and tapdanced and stomped our feet really hard on our way to the planet's core. That's how we built the Starkiller cannon.
DR-4412: I thought that was just First Order propaganda. You know, the stuff they tell us so we can feel good about being part of a military junta.
JH-8154: Don't ask me, I've been assigned to sanitation since I got here. Me and FN-2187 got transferred here together after that tomato juice incident with Captain Phasma's helmet. Come to think of it, I haven't seen him around for a while. Has anyone seen FN-2187 recently?

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just cause he's a general, doesn't mean he's a good military leader. IIRC many in the imperial ranks were put ther for political reasons..
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Just cause he's a general, doesn't mean he's a good military leader. IIRC many in the imperial ranks were put ther for political reasons..


True as you tell it, but a bad leader is still a leader. Hux may have gotten his generalship through political connections (as well as proxy patricide), and may not be the most competent of generals, but as a general, he's still a leader.
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