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The Last Jedi (original spoilers thread)
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: The Last Jedi (original spoilers thread) Reply with quote

Per The Last Jedi Spoiler Policy, this thread is the only thread for spoiler discussion of the film until the spoiler restriction is lifted. Thank you.


IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE, TURN BACK NOW!
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi Reply with quote

.

.

.

.

.

.

On January 23rd 2017, Whill wrote:
But the first thing that popped into my head was Luke becoming a ghost in TLJ after training Rey, leaving her as the last Jedi.

Before dying, Luke said "I will not be the last Jedi" clearly referring to Rey. Sometimes I amaze even myself.
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crazydanny1
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoiler Alert!

Spoiler Alert!

1. Snoke can't be dead. Hux and Ren running around in charge of the First Order seems like the rich kids getting mad and throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way because they are who they are. Snoke has to come back to reign those two toddlers in...

2. Rey and Poe are so going to hook up after that intro on the Falcon.

3. The Yoda scene felt a little off...

4. Waaay more humor than I expected, especially given that VIII was supposed to be darker than V. Don't get me wrong, though. VIII is filled with darkness.

5. Did anyone notice that the Jedi books from the tree were in the drawer on the Falcon when Finn opens in up towards the end?

6. I'm not settled on the "Rey's parents were nothing" bit. I still think we've got a big reveal coming up. My theory is that Rey is Ezra and Sabine's kid.

There... Got some of it out of my system.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazydanny1 wrote:
Spoiler Alert!

Spoiler Alert!

1. Snoke can't be dead. Hux and Ren running around in charge of the First Order seems like the rich kids getting mad and throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way because they are who they are. Snoke has to come back to reign those two toddlers in...

2. Rey and Poe are so going to hook up after that intro on the Falcon.

3. The Yoda scene felt a little off...

4. Waaay more humor than I expected, especially given that VIII was supposed to be darker than V. Don't get me wrong, though. VIII is filled with darkness.

5. Did anyone notice that the Jedi books from the tree were in the drawer on the Falcon when Finn opens in up towards the end?

6. I'm not settled on the "Rey's parents were nothing" bit. I still think we've got a big reveal coming up. My theory is that Rey is Ezra and Sabine's kid.

There... Got some of it out of my system.


1: I think he is dead. They didn't do any first aid on him. No medpacs or anything. Kylo Ren made it pretty clear he had inherited -seized- the role of Supreme Commander. If you take the reigns like that, first thing you do is make sure the person you usurped is well and truly dead.

2: I think there is some definite bit of attraction there. If only to stave off the Poe/Fin shippers.

3: Aw, really? It brought a tear to my eye. To me it *felt* way more authentically Yoda than the cgi job with Leia or Tarkin in Rogue One.

4: I like most of the humour they put in. As long as it's not anachronistic cultural references to current pop culture. What was good is that there were some genuine laughs...not just groan-ers.

5: I saw the books, but I didn't make the connection. Do you think Rey poached them when Luke wasn't looking before the flaming tree incident?

6: I agree. That's just the sort of thing Kylo would want to tell her. I think she's definitely a skywalker; I think she's related to Kylo. Leia and Han seemed to know her in TFA. She'll find out in the next movie and be asking Luke's force ghost why he didn't tell her the truth...

The biggest thing that irked me was the starship running battle.

They really want us to believe that all of the rebel support ships and the cruiser are all faster than all of the Imperial ships. Just fast enough to stay out of effective range...but not fast enough to really increase the range....for what seems to be days?

AND that range reduces the power of the incoming turbolaser blasts to the point they can't penetrate the shields??

AND for some reason they don't send 200,000 TIEs and bomber variants to cripple the fleeing ships?

OR have a couple star destroyers hyperspace into the path of the fleeing rebel ships??

But the biggest for me is that somehow The First Order had become THE rulers of the Galaxy, from what seemed like underdogs in TFA; and now opposed, on a galactic scale by literally a half dozen ships and what they can carry. Hard to swallow.

But overall, I enjoyed the movie immensely.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazydanny1 wrote:
Spoiler Alert!

Spoiler Alert!

1. Snoke can't be dead. Hux and Ren running around in charge of the First Order seems like the rich kids getting mad and throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way because they are who they are. Snoke has to come back to reign those two toddlers in...

2. Rey and Poe are so going to hook up after that intro on the Falcon.

3. The Yoda scene felt a little off...

4. Waaay more humor than I expected, especially given that VIII was supposed to be darker than V. Don't get me wrong, though. VIII is filled with darkness.

5. Did anyone notice that the Jedi books from the tree were in the drawer on the Falcon when Finn opens in up towards the end?

6. I'm not settled on the "Rey's parents were nothing" bit. I still think we've got a big reveal coming up. My theory is that Rey is Ezra and Sabine's kid.

There... Got some of it out of my system.


My first take, coming out of the theater, is always the harshest. By the time I see TLJ for the second time, things will have settled and I'll get into it way more. I was looking for details the whole time, I guess. Overall, the scope of the film is spectacular. There's so much new stuff. I think I was expecting "Rogue One Part 2" instead of a true saga episode. The dialogue was refreshing and the humor helped with tense scenes, like when Poe puts his foot through the speeder's panel. Luke was, by far, my favorite. It truly felt like Luke and not the Expanded Uni's version of Old Master Skywalker.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazydanny1 wrote:
1. Snoke can't be dead. Hux and Ren running around in charge of the First Order seems like the rich kids getting mad and throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way because they are who they are. Snoke has to come back to reign those two toddlers in...

I like the idea of Snoke being dead and Ren being the new Supreme Leader, with Hux only grudgingly going along with it until he has a chance to kill Ren (or so he hopes). Ren makes it more personal to the war than this mysterious big misshapen guy we know nothing about.

crazydanny1 wrote:
2. Rey and Poe are so going to hook up after that intro on the Falcon.

The word "intro" is confusing me. Do you mean the part with Ren when his shirt was off?

crazydanny1 wrote:
3. The Yoda scene felt a little off...

Do you mean story-wise or character appearance? A Force ghost summoning lightning from the sky was a surprise, but then again the other Force ghosts weren't Yoda. His appearance seemed off to me on the first viewing. The prequel Yoda was a very good rendering which was more believable for all the action Yoda did and much more lifelike than the classic sequel muppet IMO. Some fans feel the prequel CG Yoda looked fake while the muppet looked real, and other fans think the muppet looks fake while the CG looked more real. I'm fine with each as they appeared in each trilogy, so it was one of those things that you just accept, that Yoda just gets much more muppet-like in his (even older) old age on Dagobah. The TLJ CG Force ghost Yoda seemed to me that they were trying to be as true to the muppet as possible, which is certainly logical since Yoda was the muppet when he died. So we now have a CG muppet that to me looked more unreal than either of the prior Yodas. But he is a Force ghost now, and this may be one of those things that I get used to after multiple viewings. At first I thought Tarkin and Leia were just wrong in Rogue One but I eventually got used to them.

crazydanny1 wrote:
4. Waaay more humor than I expected, especially given that VIII was supposed to be darker than V. Don't get me wrong, though. VIII is filled with darkness.

I wasn't expecting that much humor either, but I liked most of it.

crazydanny1 wrote:
5. Did anyone notice that the Jedi books from the tree were in the drawer on the Falcon when Finn opens in up towards the end?

Yep, it looks like Rey just took them when Luke wasn't going to help.

crazydanny1 wrote:
6. I'm not settled on the "Rey's parents were nothing" bit. I still think we've got a big reveal coming up....

I agree. I still think it is most likely that Rey is a Skywalker either biologically or spiritually. The junk collectors thing (or whatever it was) could still be part of the truth if Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin.

crazydanny1 wrote:
...My theory is that Rey is Ezra and Sabine's kid.

Gods I hope not. I think it is safe to say that there are a lot of Star Wars movie fans who don't watch Rebels (who may not even have the Disney cable channels), and I just doubt they Ezra and Sabine are going to make the transition to live action characters. Disney's MCU is multimedia like Star Wars, but the Netflix shows and ABC shows have no bearing on the films, the films barely have any influence on the TV shows, and the TV channels have no bearing on each other. They have admitted that Agent Coulson has not reappeared in the films because it would be confusing to the movie fans who don't know he came back to life on TV. So even though it is one MCU on paper, in practice it is a multiverse. If Ezra and Sabine ever come into the film story it will probably be nothing more than Easter eggs like Hera's last name being spoken, Chopper and The Ghost in Rogue One. I doubt they would make something as significant as Rey's parents be Easter Eggs.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
The biggest thing that irked me was the starship running battle.

The biggest thing that irked me was that Snoke, Ren and Hux somehow never found out that Phasma is the one who lowered the Starkiller shields which allowed for the Resistance attack and the entire planet to be destroyed. I can't imagine that they didn't know and if they did why they wouldn't have killed her for it. Only her own life was on the line. She did it to save her own neck and I can't imagine how her superiors would find that level of disloyalty acceptable. The Resistance victory is literally all her fault.

Dredwulf60 wrote:
But the biggest for me is that somehow The First Order had become THE rulers of the Galaxy, from what seemed like underdogs in TFA; and now opposed, on a galactic scale by literally a half dozen ships and what they can carry. Hard to swallow.

(You have two "biggests".) Yes, it does seems that they just wanted to recreate the situation of a vast empire and a small minority rebellion. The new Republic capital system and a large portion of its fleet was destroyed in TFA, but I don't remember any details about the status of the Republic being mentioned in TLJ. The First Order could engulf the entire "Unknown Regions", and after their capital system and most of their fleet were obliterated maybe the Republic is just not standing up to them out of fear, so that's why it is up to the scattered Resistance sympathizers of the outer rim to help the Resistance.

crazydanny1 wrote:
My first take, coming out of the theater, is always the harshest. By the time I see TLJ for the second time, things will have settled and I'll get into it way more. I was looking for details the whole time, I guess. Overall, the scope of the film is spectacular. There's so much new stuff. I think I was expecting "Rogue One Part 2" instead of a true saga episode. The dialogue was refreshing and the humor helped with tense scenes, like when Poe puts his foot through the speeder's panel. Luke was, by far, my favorite. It truly felt like Luke and not the Expanded Uni's version of Old Master Skywalker.

I don't disagree.

Dredwulf60 wrote:
But overall, I enjoyed the movie immensely.

I did too, but I'm pretty sure I don't agree with the hype saying that TLJ is the best Disney SW film yet. More viewings will help me determine though.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But the biggest for me is that somehow The First Order had become THE rulers of the Galaxy, from what seemed like underdogs in TFA; and now opposed, on a galactic scale by literally a half dozen ships and what they can carry. Hard to swallow.

Quote:

(You have two "biggests".)


lol.
Yeah. The latter was a sub-section of the former.

On one hand you have Snokes mega-ship and a half dozen star destroyers trailing behind this little resistance fleet.

But on the other...the First Order supposedly controls the Galaxy now. So...why not call in another ship to head them off?

So...the biggest tree on top of the biggest hill.

Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am interested on everyone's thoughts on the direction they went with Luke

I believe the execution was amazing. Though it did not feel exactly "Luke" to me. I have a hard time believing in Luke running and hiding cause his Nephew killed his new order (Even if he blames his creation on himself). Also, while I did like the scene of Luke's moment of weakness about his nephew, Luke is the child of Darth Vader who saw good in him and redeemed him. A person who refused to fight the Emperor banking on the fact that his father was still good and would save him as he was being killed. He put his life as the wager on that one.

And yet he had such a powerful moment of weakness? And such a fear of the darkness within a force user and his family member? It seems like Luke would be the most well equipped force user ever to deal with anyone's darkness, and have great empathy for the darkness in the Skywalker line. Not to be afraid of it, but to handle it like he handled his father.


Though other than that I really, really, did enjoy the film.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
...the First Order supposedly controls the Galaxy now. So...why not call in another ship to head them off?

So...the biggest tree on top of the biggest hill.

I didn't get that the First Order controls the whole galaxy now, but maybe I missed that. I'll try to listen for that on my next viewing.

Azai wrote:
I am interested on everyone's thoughts on the direction they went with Luke

I believe the execution was amazing. Though it did not feel exactly "Luke" to me. I have a hard time believing in Luke running and hiding cause his Nephew killed his new order (Even if he blames his creation on himself). Also, while I did like the scene of Luke's moment of weakness about his nephew, Luke is the child of Darth Vader who saw good in him and redeemed him. A person who refused to fight the Emperor banking on the fact that his father was still good and would save him as he was being killed. He put his life as the wager on that one.

And yet he had such a powerful moment of weakness? And such a fear of the darkness within a force user and his family member? It seems like Luke would be the most well equipped force user ever to deal with anyone's darkness, and have great empathy for the darkness in the Skywalker line. Not to be afraid of it, but to handle it like he handled his father.

The direction they went with Luke was make him cynical so that he could have dramatic change of heart at the end. I liked it for the story of TLJ too.

As far as how it fits with the rest of the films, Luke always knew he had no chance of defeating the Emperor himself. The only possible outcomes were Luke crossing over, Luke dying, or his father destroying the Emperor. Luke's whole strategy for confronting the Emperor in the first place was banking on his father turning back to the good side. Luke throwing away his lightsaber was his refusal to join the Darth Side. Luke wasn't risking anything new at that moment because he had no other option by that point - It was die or be saved by his father. I think Rian Johnson's take on Luke may be that Luke may have hoped for his father surviving the defeat of the Emperor so that they together would rekindle the Jedi order, but Anakin died leaving Luke to do it it himself. Luke may have felt he wasn't as well equipped to deal with the darkness in his nephew as his father would have been, because Anakin dealt with and overcame much more darkness than Luke ever did.

So Luke blaming himself for Ben turning to the Dark Side and destroying the new Jedi order (then running and hiding) doesn't seem out of place to me. Ben Solo, like his grandfather and uncle, had a great potential in the Force and a great potential for the Dark Side. History repeated itself. In TLJ, Luke explained that the legacy of the Jedi was failure. The rise of the Dark Side in the galaxy was all the Jedi's fault, from a certain point of view.

By the way I got a real kick out of Luke mentioning Darth Sidious and the Sith. Apparently after RotJ a Force ghost filled him in the backstory of the prequels. Cool

Azai wrote:
I really, really, did enjoy the film.

I did too. For someone that enjoyed TFA in part because of it reprising ANH, and RO because it complimented and built upon ANH, this time they definitely tried to do a lot of new things in Star Wars.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hyperspace ram, and the sudden instant silence where I literally heard everyone around me say, "Oh, $h!t!"
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got in from seeing the Early Bird 3D showing, which was a good choice; I showed up 45 minutes early and got a middle/middle seat.

Okay, so, impressions...

    1). Nice to see my starbomber theory finally get canonized. Imagine that big bay loaded with anti-ship missiles instead of proton bombs.

    2). 400 crew? That MonCal cruiser must've been running on a skeleton crew.

    3). It seems that the Resurgent Class is the replacement for the Imperial Class, paralleling how they escorted the Executor in ESB.

    4). Holy Crap, that ramming scene!

    5). Okay, Snoke's death was a bit of a let-down; I was hoping there'd be more to his story. But at the same time, getting offed by their own ambitious apprentices is kinda the rule for Dark-Siders, not the exception.

    6). I was sure they had solved their Carrie Fisher casting problem by killing off Leia that early on. I guess the Force really was with her.

    7). DJ / Benicio Del Toro. Who cares if he was a bad guy? He was a lot of fun to watch. Too bad they couldn't show him with the identifier flower pin at some point, because now we have the plothole of wondering how two of the best code breakers in the galaxy just happened to be on the same planet at the same time. Whatever; I hope we see him again in E9.

    8). Looks like Doppleganger has been canonized as a Force power, too, which opens up a big can of worms.

Overall, I was quite impressed. There are still a lot of unanswered questions from TFA, but this has gone a ways toward restoring my faith in the TFA era.

That being said, however, it's not an era I'm hugely interested in gaming in, simply because we still know so little about the universe as a whole. The Clone Wars and Civil War eras still have by far the most established framework within which to work.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
The biggest thing that irked me was the starship running battle.

They really want us to believe that all of the rebel support ships and the cruiser are all faster than all of the Imperial ships. Just fast enough to stay out of effective range...but not fast enough to really increase the range....for what seems to be days?

18 hours, to be exact. At some point, that number is specifically mentioned as to how long the fleet has.

Obviously, either the casino planet was somewhere in the same sector, within a few hours, or hyperdrives are much faster in the TFA Era than in the Classic Era.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Spoilers...

My Review.

I FREAKIN' LOVED IT!!!!

It truly is the best Star Wars movie in 37 years.

The utter wonder for the universe is back, akin to the original trilogy--but more. The Flash Gordon influence is there. The WWII influence is there. Supreme Leader Snoke holds his own against Emperor Palpatine. I'd argue that Snoke may even out Emperor the Emperor.

The film is heroic. It's funny. It's got Jedi, with a BOOM!

It builds on the characters we were introduced to in The Force Awakens and makes them true Star Wars stars.

It's got heart felt moments.

In battle, those are real people out there dying...for a cause in which they believe with all their existence.

It's an incredible film with plot twists and turns you'll never see coming.

It's a GREAT Star Wars film.




Now...

Where would I put it in the line up?

Well, The Empire Strikes Back is just a perfect movie. It's hard to beat that.

And...A New Hope is the one with the magic that started it all. So, that's extremely hard to beat, too.

I place The Last Jedi third--a very close third.

In fact, I think these top three films--The Empire Strikes Back, A New Hope, and The Last Jedi are the cream of the crop. The Best of the Best. Better than the other films in the series.

The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
The Last Jedi

The Force Awakens
Rogue One
Return of the Jedi

Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace

I can see why Disney put Rian Johnson in creative control of the next trilogy.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Snoke (TLJ Spoilers) Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
OK, now that we've seen TLJ, who the heck is Snoke? Where did he come from? How did he get so strong in the Force?

I don't know but now that he was more than just a hologram, he was somewhat disturbing to me.


Yeah, he was portrayed really, really well. Like I said in my review, he may have out Emperorered the Emperor.


Quote:
I feel somewhat relieved that he is dead (unless he found a way to cheat death).


He looked pretty dead to me. Cut in half. Hand gone. Arm gone. Ben really screwed him up.
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