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Training Skill Package
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Training Skill Package Reply with quote

Hi all.
Thanks for having me, my first post here.

I have been playing around with training packages for primarily imperial military.
I see the royal Guards have a 5D Dex, while a "normal" max for humans in 4D
This made me think of possibly using Character points for training packages.

Have anyone else played with similar ideas?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome! Smile

This notion has been tossed around the Pit a few times. Mostly for buying groups of skills (all or nothing) at a discount. But, I'm curious what your intentions are regarding the attribute dice.

Care to elaborate on the concept?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been thinking that the recruits for the gusrds re selected from the elite of the stormtrooper corps, to me "elite" indicates an at least minimum level of experience.
So I was thinking for a guard training pack:

+1D to Dex this is by far the most expensive, however houseruled to not boost all the skills, but add a +1 to them and a full +1D to the speciality skills under dex ( if any)
Second the guards get +1D to the following skills.
Melee Combat(s): Force Pike
Recieve +2 Melee Combat to the two bladed swords.
+1D Melee Parry.
+1D Brawling and Brawling Parry ( if both are 4D or lower)
Recieve +1 D to Martial Arts Echani

I was thinking a total cost of 65Cp

If we start out with approximately 10 cp for start, then an elite stormtrooper would not be unreasonable to have gained additional 55 cps.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the Pit.

Are you talking about allowing PCs to have Royal Guard training? IME, NPCs generally don't have to worry about CPs and character builds; they just have what the GM needs them to have for the purposes of the story.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I have been thinking that the recruits for the gusrds re selected from the elite of the stormtrooper corps, to me "elite" indicates an at least minimum level of experience.
So I was thinking for a guard training pack:

+1D to Dex this is by far the most expensive, however houseruled to not boost all the skills, but add a +1 to them and a full +1D to the speciality skills under dex ( if any)
Second the guards get +1D to the following skills.
Melee Combat(s): Force Pike
Recieve +2 Melee Combat to the two bladed swords.
+1D Melee Parry.
+1D Brawling and Brawling Parry ( if both are 4D or lower)
Recieve +1 D to Martial Arts Echani

I was thinking a total cost of 65Cp

If we start out with approximately 10 cp for start, then an elite stormtrooper would not be unreasonable to have gained additional 55 cps.


Way too cheep. Just the taking Dex from 4d to 5d should cost 120cp, assuming all the rolls are made for stat improvement. And BTB any increase to the attribute improves all skills under it.. So if you had dex 4d, melee 5d, (S) Force pike 7d+1), and improve Dex to 4d+2, your melee goes to 5d+2 and force pike (S) to 8d..
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see how the costs add up fast.
An alternative I houseruled when a group wanted to go full imperial, with one becoming a guard, we allowed for a 10cp cost at start to allow 1 attribute to be increased to a total +1D above species cap.

At the time we did not include skill, but they are famous for echani, so I would possibly allow them to get the echani as a skill however
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So 10cp for a 1d boost to an attrib.. That is WAY too cheep.. even someone down at 1d in an attrib (can be for certain aliens) needs 30cp to go up 1 full dice.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In any case, I think its a good idea, especialy if you are running a military style campaign. Before you jump into the CP costs, try refining the idea a bit so that it integrates with your campaign/setting how you want it to.

For example, decide how much of an increase a given package will yield, and to which skills. Also decide how lon the training takes and whether the required CPs will be wholly or partially (or not at all) earned during the training courses or it they must be earned "onthe side" by adventuring.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CP cost is also going to be heavily dependant on the skill level of the character to whom it is being applied. Remember that CP cost to improve a skill is contingent on the current skill level.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the meritorious commendations fanbook, they gave some examples for StormTrooper training programs with a week by week breakdown of the course. They do not give a CP cost, however, as a GM, you could assign a cost or just hand-wave the cost and have the character role play their way through the various special schools.

If you're able to, you should check out the Crimson Empire Comics by Dark Horse, they are one of the better stories that I've seen in the old EU. Their explanation for what they are is below, for those who don't want spoilers, don't read past here.

Spoilers:
The general theory for why Royal Guardsmen had higher than human Dexterity, was that they were all enhanced clone troops who were especially rigorously trained.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The CP cost is also going to be heavily dependant on the skill level of the character to whom it is being applied. Remember that CP cost to improve a skill is contingent on the current skill level.


Exactly.. Take my old PC for example. 4d Know. Alien species 5d+2, Bureaucracy 7d+1, Planetary systems 6d, scholar 5d, languages 7d+2, streetwise 8d+2, willpower 7d+2, value 5d+1.
Just to improve all those skills 1 pip would be 5+7+6+5+7+8+7+5 = 50 cp on it's own.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So 10cp for a 1d boost to an attrib.. That is WAY too cheep.. even someone down at 1d in an attrib (can be for certain aliens) needs 30cp to go up 1 full dice.



No no 10CP to be allowed to use additional cp to go +1D above species cap.

Joe the guard has 4D dex, he spent his 10Cp that he started with to be allowed to increase his dex to 5D (4D is human species cap)
during his service with the stormtrooper corps he eventually was selected for royal guard training after distinguishing him self in battle several times.
(this adds up to 120cp, he is an elite so it is not too much)
during the year he spent at the academy he eventually became a guard.
(now he is at 5D dex)
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
The CP cost is also going to be heavily dependant on the skill level of the character to whom it is being applied. Remember that CP cost to improve a skill is contingent on the current skill level.


Exactly.. Take my old PC for example. 4d Know. Alien species 5d+2, Bureaucracy 7d+1, Planetary systems 6d, scholar 5d, languages 7d+2, streetwise 8d+2, willpower 7d+2, value 5d+1.
Just to improve all those skills 1 pip would be 5+7+6+5+7+8+7+5 = 50 cp on it's own.



If the skill is higher than the attribute and you increase the attribute then the skill should not be affected.
if you have 4D Kno
languages 8D
Survival 4D+2
Rest of skills 4D
and you increase Kno to 5D
then the skills will be
Languages 8D
survival 5D+2
rest of skills 5D
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
garhkal wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
The CP cost is also going to be heavily dependant on the skill level of the character to whom it is being applied. Remember that CP cost to improve a skill is contingent on the current skill level.


Exactly.. Take my old PC for example. 4d Know. Alien species 5d+2, Bureaucracy 7d+1, Planetary systems 6d, scholar 5d, languages 7d+2, streetwise 8d+2, willpower 7d+2, value 5d+1.
Just to improve all those skills 1 pip would be 5+7+6+5+7+8+7+5 = 50 cp on it's own.



If the skill is higher than the attribute and you increase the attribute then the skill should not be affected.
if you have 4D Kno
languages 8D
Survival 4D+2
Rest of skills 4D
and you increase Kno to 5D
then the skills will be
Languages 8D
survival 5D+2
rest of skills 5D


This is not the rules as written.

page 35, R&E wrote:

When a character improves an attribute one pip, all skills under that attribute (except advanced skills) also increase by one pip.
Example: Thannik wants to improve his Knowledge attribute from 2D+2 to 3D. It costs 20 Character Points and takes 20 weeks of training if he has a teacher.
When his Knowledge improves to 3D, all of his Knowledge skills also go up by one pip: alien species: Wookiees, goes from 3D+2 to 4D.


If I am the best shoot in the galaxy (Blaster of 15D), and I increase my Dexterity by 1 pip, my blaster also goes up by 1 pip. If I am an Ewok who has never left the Forest Moon and I increase my Mechanical attribute, I (theoretically) get better at Astrogation, even if I've never seen the inside of a starship and still believe that the stars are the great kings of the past looking down on us (presumably, increasing my Mechanical at that point involves learning a counter theory, that the stars are fireflies stuck on that big bluish-black thing).
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
garhkal wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
The CP cost is also going to be heavily dependant on the skill level of the character to whom it is being applied. Remember that CP cost to improve a skill is contingent on the current skill level.


Exactly.. Take my old PC for example. 4d Know. Alien species 5d+2, Bureaucracy 7d+1, Planetary systems 6d, scholar 5d, languages 7d+2, streetwise 8d+2, willpower 7d+2, value 5d+1.
Just to improve all those skills 1 pip would be 5+7+6+5+7+8+7+5 = 50 cp on it's own.



If the skill is higher than the attribute and you increase the attribute then the skill should not be affected.
if you have 4D Kno
languages 8D
Survival 4D+2
Rest of skills 4D
and you increase Kno to 5D
then the skills will be
Languages 8D
survival 5D+2
rest of skills 5D


This is not the rules as written.

page 35, R&E wrote:

When a character improves an attribute one pip, all skills under that attribute (except advanced skills) also increase by one pip.
Example: Thannik wants to improve his Knowledge attribute from 2D+2 to 3D. It costs 20 Character Points and takes 20 weeks of training if he has a teacher.
When his Knowledge improves to 3D, all of his Knowledge skills also go up by one pip: alien species: Wookiees, goes from 3D+2 to 4D.


If I am the best shoot in the galaxy (Blaster of 15D), and I increase my Dexterity by 1 pip, my blaster also goes up by 1 pip. If I am an Ewok who has never left the Forest Moon and I increase my Mechanical attribute, I (theoretically) get better at Astrogation, even if I've never seen the inside of a starship and still believe that the stars are the great kings of the past looking down on us (presumably, increasing my Mechanical at that point involves learning a counter theory, that the stars are fireflies stuck on that big bluish-black thing).



It was in now way RAW, it was the suggested package to allow a 5D Dex attribute for a human.
Naturally allowing all corresponding skills to jump +1d is a bit over the top, but that is their new cap to raise them will cost cp naturally.

alternately it could possibly be made a template for royal guards, but I can not see them start with 5D dex.
to me it would be.

Dex 4D
Kno 2D
Per 3D
str 4D
Mech 3D
Tech 2D

then have some special ability that allows DEX to be pushed to 5D, maybe only if the guardsman choose some sort of specialization like martial arts echani or focuses on melee combat.
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