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The Last Jedi - Thoughts and Reactions
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Though, I'd point out that space in Star Wars does behave a bit oddly... like aforementioned space slugs having an internal, nearly 1atm pressure, atmosphere (comfortable in a breath mask and not-particularly special clothes)


Not to mention that the small asteroid has a 1G field.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have yet to see another explanation that adequately explains all the variables. We already know Star Wars tech includes shield technology that can contain an atmosphere against the vacuum of space. We know that asteroids can’t naturally generate the conditions in question, and it’s reasonable to assume that a professional spacer like Han would know this. As such, abnormal conditions like a Type 3 Atmosphere (breath mask required) and a 1g gravity field should’ve immediately set off warning signs that this wasn’t a normal asteroid. The only way it would be blithely accepted as normal would be if it was something the ship did, and that Han knew it could do.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The only way it would be blithely accepted as normal would be if it was something the ship did, and that Han knew it could do.

That is a way, but no, that is not the only way. As I've stated before elsewhere, a large asteroid with sufficient rotation for billions of years could have pockets of gas trapped in niches with effectual 1g "centrifugal" gravity (with down is towards the outside of the asteroid) which could easily have 1 atmo air pressure. It's actually scientifically plausible, it explains what we see on screen, and as an added bonus it doesn't even need artificial gravity protection from the ship. These conditions could be scanned from the ship.

"That'll do nicely."
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps, but the plausibility of it is questionable, IMO. A major facet of Space Opera is advanced technology, to the point where it achieves seemingly magical effects alá Clarke's Third Law. Applying a non-specific "sci-fi handwave" effect makes it much easier to both suspend disbelief and to transplant the effect into other scenarios, as opposed to depending on a natural effect that just coincidentally happens to provide the effect needed.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The only way it would be blithely accepted as normal would be if it was something the ship did, and that Han knew it could do.


Whill wrote:
That is a way, but no, that is not the only way. As I've stated before elsewhere, a large asteroid with sufficient rotation for billions of years could have pockets of gas trapped in niches with effectual 1g "centripetal" gravity (with down is towards the outside of the asteroid) which could easily have 1 atmo air pressure. It's actually scientifically plausible, it explains what we see on screen, and as an added bonus it doesn't even need artificial gravity protection from the ship. These conditions could be scanned from the ship.

"That'll do nicely."


CRMcNeill wrote:
Perhaps, but the plausibility of it is questionable, IMO. A major facet of Space Opera is advanced technology, to the point where it achieves seemingly magical effects alá Clarke's Third Law. Applying a non-specific "sci-fi handwave" effect makes it much easier to both suspend disbelief and to transplant the effect into other scenarios, as opposed to depending on a natural effect that just coincidentally happens to provide the effect needed.


I have to admit, I'm a bit conflicted on this whole "realism vs verisimilitude" debate for Star Wars. It reminds me heavily of just how much I had my suspension of disbelief shattered for Star Trek (2009) just because of the whole "black holes are a viable time travel/transuniversal travel method" thing that I was convinced from what I knew of physics couldn't possibly be true. That one thing kept me from enjoying the rebooted Star Trek for years until I saw Neil DeGrasse Tyson in the new Cosmos say "well, actually, this might be theoretically possible." Yes, you read that right: Dr. Tyson used science to restore my suspension of disbelief in a science fiction story. That's both odd and awesome if you think about it.

There are quite a few things in Star Wars that don't make sense if we try to examine them logically. The atmosphere in the space slug's asteroid is but one of many of them. Is it possible that the atmosphere inside that asteroid occurred naturally? Assuming what Whill said is factually and scientifically accurate (and I have no reason to doubt him), then yes. Is it also possible that the Falcon's shields provided a temporary atmosphere. Also, yes. Will we ever get a Word of God explanation saying which one is true and which one is wrong? Unlikely. Then again, I'm not sure it matters; it certainly didn't matter to me the first time I was in the theatre when I was 8 years old watching TESB for the first time. On the other other hand, it did occur to me upon a subsequent viewing years later and it occurred to a great many people.

I'm not so certain there is a correct explanation, so much as we have several plausible theories with no way to determine the right one. As for the likelihood of each of the theories, I will leave it to others more knowledgeable than I to debate.

(I thought I had a point to make when I started this post, but it seems to have vanished into thin air and I can't remember it now.) Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The only way it would be blithely accepted as normal would be if it was something the ship did, and that Han knew it could do.
cheshire wrote:
I get that those are your explanations, but it isn't internally explained, or even seen as unusual. Without at least hanging a lantern on it, the movies are treating space a bit weird.
Whill wrote:
That is a way, but no, that is not the only way
CRMcNeill wrote:
Perhaps, but the plausibility of it is questionable, IMO. A major facet of Space Opera is advanced technology, to the point where it achieves seemingly magical effects alá Clarke's Third Law. Applying a non-specific "sci-fi handwave" effect makes it much easier to both suspend disbelief and to transplant the effect into other scenarios, as opposed to depending on a natural effect that just coincidentally happens to provide the effect needed.

You missed the point. I wasn't taking any issue with your explanation. I only objected to your use of the word "only". Now you argue why your specific sci-fi handwave (that is not explicit in the film) is better. Again, the key word was "only". The ship being able to do it is not the only way it could be blithely accepted by Han.

And we each have our individual tolerances for disbelief suspension. What makes things easier for you to suspend disbelief may not work the same for others. And vice versa of course. Your explanation is better for you, and some other people I'm sure, but it is not better for everyone, and it is certainly not the only one.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Assuming what Whill said is factually and scientifically accurate (and I have no reason to doubt him), then yes. Is it also possible that the Falcon's shields provided a temporary atmosphere. Also, yes.

I never had any issue with the Falcon projecting a force field that can contain an atmosphere and even venting gases to get the air pressure to 1 atmo so they would only need breath masks to go out in it without spacesuits. The tech exists for space hangers and that seems an easy application of shield tech. My issue has always been artificial gravity projection that doesn't just attract matter to it in a certain direction (green), but also projects gravity onto a plane under and around the ship (red). So the sufficiently rotating large asteroid with a cave and landing on a surface where "down" is towards the outside of the asteroid could easily provide 1g gravity under and around the ship.



That explains the apparent gravity, and the ship's sci-fi tech provides the atmosphere and the force field to contain it, which would not need to just happen to find 1 atmo pressure gas pocket for the ship to land it. I acknowledge that my lack of ability to easily suspend my disbelief in gravity projection onto other surfaces outside the ship is my issue. For those that don't have problem with it - great! The rotating asteroid "centrifugal force" gravity is not needed for those fans.


And the bigger point we're getting away from is that we've had all this time to write rules and devise explanations that help us accept our beloved classic trilogy, but we're quick to criticize a brand new movie that challenges our explanations of the prior films.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm a little curious... how many of you people who weren't fans of TLJ will end up buying the movie when it's released?

I'm especially curious about Whill, since he seems to be a pretty die hard collector.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect I’ll buy it for the sake of completeness, but I highly doubt I will ever sit and watch it all the way through. Certain scenes, like Rey and Kylo vs Snoke’s guards are worth it, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
So, I'm a little curious... how many of you people who weren't fans of TLJ will end up buying the movie when it's released?

I'm especially curious about Whill, since he seems to be a pretty die hard collector.


I saw it in the theater for my completeness, but i doubt i will be adding it to my movie collection (same with TFA and Rogue one)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
So, I'm a little curious... how many of you people who weren't fans of TLJ will end up buying the movie when it's released?

I'm especially curious about Whill, since he seems to be a pretty die hard collector.

Right now TLJ is ranked (slightly) above AotC for me, and I own AotC. TLJ is disappointing, but I still liked a lot of things in the film, although overall I enjoyed it no where near to the extent of TFA or RO. There is no way I wouldn't buy TLJ on blu-ray.

I'm didn't like Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 or Suicide Squad, and I did not buy those despite those just to complete my MCU and DCEU movie collections. I liked TLJ a lot more than those films.

Besides, my son and wife loved TLJ a lot more than I did. My wife said the only thing she didn't like is Luke dying. My 8 year-old has a few "yes, but..."s but otherwise loves it. If I didn't get it, they would be mad.

I'm looking forward to watching TLJ one more time with subtitles on, for any dialogue I didn't quite catch, but after that I'll probably just want to watch Rogue One again. Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
My personal post-RotJ canon is undecided. It will definitely be after Episode IX comes out before I would get into that era in my game, but it is certainly possible that The Thrawn Trilogy will exist in some form. I'd really like to hear your take on Zahn's classic-era novel Allegiance which features Luke, Han, Leia and Mara Jade.

I’m afraid The Thrawn Trilogy and The Hand of Thrawn are the only books of Zahn’s that I have read. I generally don’t enjoy backstories, so, the only other one I am ever likely to give a shot is Survivor’s Quest.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually enjoyed Survivor's quest..
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I expect I’ll buy it for the sake of completeness, but I highly doubt I will ever sit and watch it all the way through. Certain scenes, like Rey and Kylo vs Snoke’s guards are worth it, though.


Interesting. So you'd buy the whole movie to be able to watch a few scenes? Would you do that with a movie that wasn't Star Wars?

Whill wrote:
Right now TLJ is ranked (slightly) above AotC for me, and I own AotC. TLJ is disappointing, but I still liked a lot of things in the film, although overall I enjoyed it no where near to the extent of TFA or RO. There is no way I wouldn't buy TLJ on blu-ray.

I'm didn't like Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 or Suicide Squad, and I did not buy those despite those just to complete my MCU and DCEU movie collections. I liked TLJ a lot more than those films.

Besides, my son and wife loved TLJ a lot more than I did. My wife said the only thing she didn't like is Luke dying. My 8 year-old has a few "yes, but..."s but otherwise loves it. If I didn't get it, they would be mad.

I'm looking forward to watching TLJ one more time with subtitles on, for any dialogue I didn't quite catch, but after that I'll probably just want to watch Rogue One again.


I wasn't a huge fan of either of those as well. I didn't much care for Batman vs. Superman as well, but I did like Justice League.

So, you're just going to watch TLJ once more with subtitles, then it will be remitted to the shelf to gather dust? Laughing

As I said before, I was curious how many Star Wars fans would buy the movie even if they didn't like it in theaters.

I really feel bad for my wife, our Christmas trip got cancelled, and we didn't get to see the movie together. I ended up going by myself, because she insisted that I get a chance to see it, but scheduling just didn't work out for her to see it before it left the big screen in our area. So, even though I was planning on buying it anyway, I'm really looking forward to getting to watch the movie with her to see her reactions.

garhkal wrote:

I saw it in the theater for my completeness, but i doubt i will be adding it to my movie collection (same with TFA and Rogue one)


Well, at least there's that. Will you go see Episode IX and the new Solo movie coming out?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ep 9, at the theaters yes. Get it on vid, no. And for solo, i doubt i will even see it.. unless i watch it when it hits tv.
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