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The Last Jedi - Thoughts and Reactions
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Ugh, having Snoke actually be Palpatine in disguise is a stupid idea. And having him come back from the dead after being bisected through the waist by a lightsaber is even worse.

Palpatine and Snoke are both dead. Let them both rot. Rolling Eyes

Yes, they were both cool villains, but the idea of bringing either one of them back from the dead is just completely hackneyed. We deserve better than that from Star Wars.


Just to be clear...I wasn't suggesting that Snoke be brought back from the dead. I was just saying that Snoke could be a powerful Force projection--that he fooled Kylo Ren and Rey and is really somewhere else.

I don't think that will be the case in Episode IX. I was just exploring the idea.


What would be interesting, though unlikely is if Snoke is one of a group of force users, and maybe maybe not the most powerful of them.

That would turn things into a very interesting future of SW
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
*Luke says he came to the world of Ahch-To to die. Did he mean that he was just going to spend the rest of his days there? Or, was he pulled there by the Force? Because, in the end, he did die there, but not in the way he expected.

Luke saying that was foreshadowing to us that he would die there later in the movie.

Sutehp wrote:
Ugh, having Snoke actually be Palpatine in disguise is a stupid idea. And having him come back from the dead after being bisected through the waist by a lightsaber is even worse.

Palpatine and Snoke are both dead. Let them both rot. Rolling Eyes

Yes, they were both cool villains, but the idea of bringing either one of them back from the dead is just completely hackneyed. We deserve better than that from Star Wars.

Perhaps there is a better word than stupid, but I generally agree. It's time to let old things die. Palpatine, Snoke... Let it all die.

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
So, I wonder...does this also foreshadow the return of Snoke?

I mean, he's a cool bad guy**.

In TFA, he was mysterious. I was curious about him. But, his portrayal in TLJ makes me want to see more of him (not unlike Qui-gon Jinn and Darth Maul--both died too early).

I totally disagree that Barf Hideous is a cool bad guy. He's not nearly as cool as Darth Maul. And Qui-Gon is totally awesome. But they both had to die in their movies, and BH has nothing on them.

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Is he really dead?

Or was that a rather powerful Force Projection that we saw? What is that wasn't really him that Ben killed?

It would be an interesting twist.

I fear that Barf Hideous used the Force projection to fake his own death. Probably the only way that would be at all interesting for me would be if Snoke was really Darth Plagueis who similarly only made Palpatine think he had killed his master. Then Plagueis went to the Unknown Regions and built the First Order. Perhaps the First Order even preexisted the Palpatine's Empire, which would make the order's name make more sense. Abrams said that Episode IX would tie the entire rest of the saga together, and this could be part of doing that.

If Snoke is not Plagueis, then he just needs to stay dead. Since Kylo Ben is the Sequel Trilogy's stand-in for Anakin Vader, what they have set-up now is 'What If Vader had become Emperor?' A conflicted Kylo Ren being Supreme Leader is at least something different than Big Bad is ultimate evil.

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
**Could Snoke be the re-animated, or never quite dead, Emperor Palpatine? All screwed up and misshapen from Vader throwing him down into the plasma pit? He survived?

I actually like that idea. Which is weird, because I don't dig the small universe Lucas stuff.

Despite Barf Hideous being an Emperor wannabe, I hate that idea because it diminishes the drama of RotJ, the CT and the Lucas' six-film saga as a whole. The Jedi Anakin Skywalker returned and destroyed the Sith! Don't undo that epic accomplishment! It would be Dark Empire all over again. Might as well have the Sarlaac regurgitate Boba Fett while you're at it.

Also, Barf Hideous is much larger than Palpatine, unless BH was only a Force projection and he really is smaller. If BH was a Force projection (and really Darth Plagueis), it would be cool if he is really a little dude who compensates by making himself appear large (Ignore the man behind the curtain). And as great as Andy Serkis is, it would be a travesty to have an older Palpatine played by anyone other than Ian McDiarmid. Unless you are saying Palpatine's consciousness moved to a body different from his own. If so, then Dark Empire all over again and Noooooooooooo!

Mamatried wrote:
What would be interesting, though unlikely is if Snoke is one of a group of force users, and maybe maybe not the most powerful of them.

That would turn things into a very interesting future of SW

The Snokes and Ultra Mega Snoke? Ugh. I fully expect the check written for the Knights of Ren to be cashed, but these will be Supreme Leader Ren's underlings. I like Snoke and Luke out of the way so the most powerful Force users in the galaxy become Ren and Rey.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snoke really came alive for me in TLJ. I thought he was cool as hell.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Snap Wexley dead? He wasn't in TLJ.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Ugh, having Snoke actually be Palpatine in disguise is a stupid idea. And having him come back from the dead after being bisected through the waist by a lightsaber is even worse.

Palpatine and Snoke are both dead. Let them both rot. Rolling Eyes

Yes, they were both cool villains, but the idea of bringing either one of them back from the dead is just completely hackneyed. We deserve better than that from Star Wars.

Snoke a 'cool villain' in the same sentence as palpatine, blasphemy!

Snok in Swedish is a small harmless snake and also a slang word for 'nose' Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Is Snap Wexley dead? He wasn't in TLJ.

That would kinda suck to just kill him off offscreen since he had a speaking role in TFA. All I can say is the Snap actor is a personal friend of JJ Abrams, so Snap may be back in Episode IX, with or without an explanation for where he was during TLJ.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking that Episode IX will climax with the birth of the New Rebellion.

The Resistance is the spark that lights the fire of Rebellion. Right now, all odds are against them. The Resistance numbers about twenty people and one ship, the Falcon. Do they even have fighters anymore? I don't think so. Those were left on Crait.

They've got no base. They've got no resources. They've got no capital ships. They've got no allies.

They're alone.

So, I think the next film will end with them surviving all odds and launching the Rebellion, as the First Order seizes that galaxy.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like the new films, and they're growing on me. TFA, especially, has grown quite a bit on me since I first saw it in the theater. It's like I've got to get to a point where I accept the new.

Looking at just the new films, which are all better than Jedi and all three of the prequels, here is my order (spaces indicate gaps):



The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope

The Force Awakens
Rogue One
The Last Jedi

Return of the Jedi

Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Star Wars
Empire
Jedi
Force Awakens
Battle for Endor
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you guys find Rey attractive?

I don't, at all. She looks like a young kid, to me. Tomboy. Not a woman. Not sexy at all.

I love her in the role. I really like the character. But I don't think that she's something to look at. Not ugly. Just not to eye-catching.

The shots of her out of costume, too, as she appears in interviews and such. Like Miley Cyrus or Taylor Swift. Not sexy. None of them. Even when they're trying real hard to be sexy.

You?
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think that the new series would be more exciting if the first movie was about the Resistance learning about Starkiller base, attacking it, and then failing to blow it up.

That would make the bigger and better Death Star exciting. "Heck! They didn't blow the damn thing up!"

Episode VII ends on a semi-sour note. The Resistance wins a small battle only to fail at taking out Starkiller base. Han Solo dies heroically, helping to secure the data. Luke has a bigger role towards the end of the film and sees Han die.

Coruscant, not Hosnian Prime, goes boom!



Episode VIII: About mid-way through, Starkiller base is destroyed. Again, this shakes up things because it's not the end of a movie, but the middle. It makes it different than the two Death Stars.

But, the cost is high. The rest of the First Order follows the Resistance to their base on D'Qar, and the Resistance is almost decimated.



Episode IX: Ends with the Resistance lighting the fire that sparks the Rebellion. The New Rebellion is in full force. Ready for the next trilogy!
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts...


My Incredible Cross Sections arrived today (Yay!), and I dug in.

The first thing that I find really interesting is in the very first section of page one. The First Order is desperate to get the Resistance snuffed out because the First Order is standing on shaky legs itself. With the destruction of Hosnian Prime, the FO has a lot of things going its way, but we're talking about taking over an entire galaxy here. It wants to look invincible, and the Resistance just took out the FO's major weapon, Starkiller base.

So, the FO wants to completely eliminate the Resistance not just for revenge, but for a real political reason. It doesn't want the Resistance growing or inspiring others to form their own resistance units. The FO is fully aware that this is how the Rebellion grew in Palpatine's Empire, like a cancer that finally killed its host. The FO wants to snuff out all challengers to the throne.





This section also sparked a thought: If Snoke is responsible for the Force connection between Ben and Rey--he said in the film that he did it in order to draw Rey to him--doesn't Snoke have to know where Rey is to do that?

Obviously, he doesn't know where Rey is, or he would take his battlefleet there to get Luke.



EDIT: Oh, and this too... Snoke has been trying to keep the FO's might a secret from the rest of the galaxy. In the Poe Dameron comic, we see FO operatives with orders not to engage the Resistance (the book is set prior to TFA).

The Incredible Cross Sections book tells us that, since Starkiller base has been revealed, it force the FO's hand to come out into the light. Snoke reveals his huge flagship and his new fleet of star destroyers when attempting to crush the Resistance. Presumably, this is not so much as an over-kill measure against the fledgling Resistance forces but an attempt to tell the galaxy, "HERE WE ARE! SEE HOW POWERFUL WE ARE!"
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt this will happen, but Han got a lot of screen time in TFA. Luke got a lot in TLJ. And, Leia got a decent amount between the two films.

Now, all the characters are dead. Well, I presume Episode IX will have Leia as passed instead of off somewhere off screen.

Wouldn't it be neat if, at a scene for Leia's funeral, we see Lando Calrissian! He joins or works with the Resistance and becomes a key member in getting the Rebellion started.

I think that would be cool as hell. And, it would fit in with the younger version of the character that we're about to see at the end of the month.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The First Order Had Help...



According to ICS, Palpatine used Imperial Scouts to blaze hyperspace routes across the Unknown Regions. His plan was to expand the Empire once the Rebel threat had been dealt with.

In preparation of this, Palpatine ordered the construction of labs, shipyards, and bases beyond the frontier, laying down a support system to build upon later.

The First Order inherited that support system, unknown to the New Republic.



This is also interesting...

The same section says that Palpatine was seeking the oldest riddles of the Force among the mysterious star systems of the Unknown Regions...

I wonder what he found.

I'm guessing Snoke inherited...something.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where To Place The Bombs?

I saw an interview with Pablo Hidalgo and others of the story team, and he said the the reason the Resistance knows just where to hit the Dreadnought in TLJ is set up in a Rebels episode.

They also mentioned the Hyperspace Tracking. Someone mentioned this before--that the Hyperspace Tracking was one of the Special Projects that Jyn sees on Scariff during RO. So, it took something like 60+ years for the Empire to crack that nut. Or, the Empire never cracked it, and the FO finally did. One of the two.
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