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Return of the Last Jedi?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Return of the Last Jedi? Reply with quote

Quote:
A Jedi uses his powers for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

Why Luke's Final Act in TLJ is the Most Accurate Depiction of a Jedi in the Franchise

I can't argue that Luke's final act wasn't a peaceful way to save the Resistance. It's reminiscent of when Luke tossed his lightsaber on Death Star II in defiance of the Dark Side. But movies about Jedi only being peaceful would be boring. I'm totally down with Jedi philosophy, but Jedi also have a cinematic purpose of lightsaber dueling with Dark Side villains. Lightsaber duels were an inherent aspect of Star Wars films until Rogue One, but no one expected a lightsaber duel in that or Solo.

I am often mocked for my criticism that The Last Jedi did not have any lightsaber duels. You just can't make a movie with two Jedi characters, and "Jedi" in the title, without having a single lightsaber duel! Rian Johnson could have had one between Rey and Kylo at some point before Luke's pacifist sacrifice. Yes Rey and Kylo already dueled in TFA, but Luke and Vader dueled in more than one film. Obi-Wan and Vader dueled more than once. Obi-Wan and Anakin dueled Dooku more than once.

VIDEO: What if there had been no lightsaber duel in Return of the Jedi?

Forgive the low production value of this 48 second video, but I think you get the point. A Jedi only living the ideal does not make a good action-adventure movie. Sword fighting is cool but lightsaber duels are the ultimate sword fights - They look and sound cool when they clash with each other. If you wouldn't want to remove the lightsaber duel from Return of the Jedi, then you should see why we'd want a lightsaber duel in The Last Jedi. I find the sentiment expressed in the article linked above to be completely missing the point.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

Nice job with the video edit. I got a chuckle.
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One might say, upon looking at the way Luke responds once he realizes the loss of Vader's hand and the connection with his own robotic hand, that Luke had been under the sway of the Dark Side from the moment he used the Force to pull the Lightsaber into his hand from Palpatine's chair.

So the entire lightsaber fight, except for one momentary lapse when Luke retreated to the elevated platform to avoid fighting Vader, Luke was more under the pull of the Dark Side than he was under the influence of the Jedi way.

When he "lowers his defenses", that is a moment when Luke briefly re-centers himself. But that is gone once he falls from the platform, hides, and then inadvertently gives up Leia as his sister. Then, without a doubt, he gives in to the Dark Side and attacks Vader with a vengeance!

Only once Vader is beaten, and Luke realizes what he has done, does he focus once more and act like a Jedi. And his first action as a Jedi, at peace with his actions, is to throw away his lightsaber in the face of the Emperor.

So yes, I would agree that what Luke does in "The Last Jedi", is a very noble, Jedi thing to do. He gave hope. He held off the First Order long enough to affect and escape for the Resistance. And he did not give in to anger, to vindictiveness, to any of the goading that Kylo Ren gushes at him. Luke's words are calm. He is at peace. There is not a glimmer of the Dark Side in Luke's actions in The Last Jedi during that final scene. He used the Force for defense "never for attack".

Honestly, how Luke handled that last encounter with Kylo Ren, is similar to how I hoped they would portray Yoda's use of the Force in the prequels. Instead we got a spinning top with a little lightsaber. I thought that was ridiculous, and not at all what I hoped Yoda would do to represent his power in the Force. We got a little glimmer when he stopped a huge pillar from falling on fellow Jedi. We got another little glimmer when he simply caught Force Lightning and absorbed it harmlessly. All of that was done with the Force, on the defense. However we didn't even see a mastery of the Force like what Luke used in TLJ from Yoda.
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimace wrote:
One might say, upon looking at the way Luke responds once he realizes the loss of Vader's hand and the connection with his own robotic hand, that Luke had been under the sway of the Dark Side from the moment he used the Force to pull the Lightsaber into his hand from Palpatine's chair.

So the entire lightsaber fight, except for one momentary lapse when Luke retreated to the elevated platform to avoid fighting Vader, Luke was more under the pull of the Dark Side than he was under the influence of the Jedi way.

When he "lowers his defenses", that is a moment when Luke briefly re-centers himself. But that is gone once he falls from the platform, hides, and then inadvertently gives up Leia as his sister. Then, without a doubt, he gives in to the Dark Side and attacks Vader with a vengeance!

Only once Vader is beaten, and Luke realizes what he has done, does he focus once more and act like a Jedi. And his first action as a Jedi, at peace with his actions, is to throw away his lightsaber in the face of the Emperor.

Well stated. I completely agree.

Grimace wrote:
So yes, I would agree that what Luke does in "The Last Jedi", is a very noble, Jedi thing to do. He gave hope. He held off the First Order long enough to affect and escape for the Resistance. And he did not give in to anger, to vindictiveness, to any of the goading that Kylo Ren gushes at him. Luke's words are calm. He is at peace. There is not a glimmer of the Dark Side in Luke's actions in The Last Jedi during that final scene. He used the Force for defense "never for attack".

As true to Jedi philosophy as that was, there still could have a lightsaber duel somewhere in that movie. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying to take away from what he did with Luke.
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