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Write up examples of Lightsaber Combat by the rules
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JediJones
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: Write up examples of Lightsaber Combat by the rules Reply with quote

You know how the 2nd ed WEG rule book has examples of combat told in story mode? There isn't one for lightsaber combat, much less one for two force wielders vs each other. Can anybody point me to any write up examples?

For instance:

Jedi Jones rolls (x) to active his lightsaber combat and "keep it up" and his Sith opponent does the same by rolling a 12. Both roll the perception as initiative...

------------

I'm sure someone wrote up one somewhere, maybe in a campaign journal.

Thanks in advance!
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not aware of any,but what questions do you have?
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JediJones
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I'm understanding from the RAW.

Jedi and Sith square off. Each would roll their Sense to put their Lightsaber Combat power "up". If wounded, they would have to make another roll to keep the power "up". If he fails, he just uses his light saber skill. Each rolls their perception for initiative. Highest perception roll goes first.

Jedi rolls higher perception, and (cinematically speaking) makes a series of feints, etc. and the actual attack roll (sense+lightsaber) is the real attack. The Sith makes an opposing roll with his sense+lightsaber. If it was a non force user, you'd have the Jedi's opponent roll a dodge, or melee-parry, depending on what they were doing. (leaving aside all the bit about a "full dodge")

If the Jedi rolls higher, he hits the Sith. If the Sith rolls higher, the attack is parried away by the Sith. Then the Sith goes; and he and Jedi make opposing sense+lighsaber rolls again.

Am I getting this right?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other than you are forgetting Both need to also roll their Control as well, since LS combat is a Control + Sense power..

So let's take an example.
Jedi John (the pc) has 7d in Lightsaber, 5d+2 in both Control and Sense. he also has 8CP and 2FP
Sid sith (the enemy) has 7d+2 in lightsaber, and Like Jedi John has 5d+2 in control, but has 6d in sense. He has 11cp, but only 1FP.

So it would go,
Round 1
Both sides roll perception for initiative, as neither has LS combat already up, both need to activate it..
Jedi John wins the initiative roll, and declares 3 actions, 2 to activate the LS combat force power, and 1 action left to make an attack.
As he is taking 3 actions, his control roll drops to 3d+2 (-2d from MAPS), but still succeeds in meeting the 10 difficulty, easily! So part 1 of LS combat is up and running.

Sid sith on the other hand, declares 3 actions as well, but goes ahead and makes his first one an attack, hoping to surprise Jedi John. Since he is taking 3 actions, his LS skill itself drops 2d down, to 5d+2.
Since Jedi john is not wishing to take one of his 2 remaining declared actions to make a parry roll, he is now taking a 4th action to do so. So his LS skill drops to 4d.. And is unfortunately hit, but after spending 2cp, takes no damage..

Now Jedi John gets to take his 2nd action, and uses it to bring up the sense side of LS Combat. However since he used a 4th action to parry, is at -3d on his Sense, giving him only 2d+2 to use, so needs to use a 3rd CP Now down from 8cp to 5cp.. BOO! to bring it up as he needed to hit a 15 TN..
Since his LS Combat force poweris now active, when he makes his last action to attack, he will roll 7d+1 (LS skill), +5d+2 (Sense) -3d (Multiple action penalties) giving him 9d+3 total..

Now it's Sid sith's 2nd of his 3 declared actions.. He realizes that now Jedi John has LS combat up any attacks he makes won't get through, and so wisely declares he will bring up his own LS combat power, going with his Sense side first.

NOTE, there is NO Actual in game benefit for bringing up Sense OR Control first.. its just a thematic thing here!
As sid has 6d in Sense, and has 3 actions declared, he rolls 4d and Easily beats the 15 difficulty number.. Step 1 complete.. He hopes he survives to finish activating it!

Now Jedi John gets his 3rd action (well 4th technically cause of his parry).. And his 9d+3 attack roll, easily gets past the defense of Sid sith, who had to declare a 4th action (just like Jedi John did) to make a parry. Since he does NOT have LS combat up, he only rolls his 7d+2 skill -3d from his multiple actions, so has only 4d+2 to resist the 9d+3 attack.. And thus is EASILY Smacked..
BUT cause sid is cowardly, he pops through 3 of his CP to only take a Stun result Now he's down to 8cp.

Sid sith, now rolls his 3rd declared action (4th overall), his Control skill (which has a 10 diff). Since he suffered a Stun result (and had to spend CP to do so, can't use a FP now), he is down 4d, taking him to only 1d+2 for his control, so must burn another CP to meet the difficulty. Now HIS LS combat power is active.. And cause of that CP spending, he is now down to 7CP remaining..

Round 2
Neither Sid or John feel there's a need at this time to use a FP< so both roll initiative normally. However Sid wins it..

So Sid sith goes first. Since he now has LS combat up and active, he is already at a 2 'action' penalty for keeping it up, so only declares 2 MORE actions bringing him up to 4 actions total (normally -3d, but due to his stun result from last round is at -4d). So his LS skill of 7d+2 +2d remaining from his Sense (minus the penalties) gives him 9d+2 to attack with.

Since Jedi John has yet to act, he luckily gets to roll his FULL skill for his parry, but since he still is technically taking 2 actions as well (in having the power up) is down 2d for that parry.. So he will roll 7d +3d+2. giving him 10d+2.. Things look good but due to several 1's on various dice, Sid easily strikes him..

Sid now rolls damage, a base 5d for the Lightsaber itself, However, cause he is suffering from so many dice of penalties (4 actions and a stun, -4d) only adds 1d+2 to the damage, making 6d+2 overall. However an open ending wild die allows him to stun Jedi John.

Jedi John now gets to act.Yippie!!. He also declares only 2 actions, bringing him up to 4 total actions (normally 3d penalties, but he has a stun now).. His 10d+2 is now down to 7d+2 to hit sid for his first attack.

Sid on the other hand, even after declaring another action (bringing him totally to 5 actions in all), to parry, still rolls 8d+2 to do so, and easily beats back John's feeble attack..

Now it's sid's 2nd attack of two.. He rolls his 8d+2 to attack john, who is at 7d+2 to defend and hits him again.. however cause of his taking another action, only adds +2 from his Control roll to his damage. Scoring yet another stun to Jedi John!... Things are not looking good for Jedi John.

Jedi John gets his 2nd and last declared action, but due to now carrying 2 stuns, fails to hit.

Round 3
So we have Jedi John now suffering from 2 stuns, both of which still carry to this round, but the one stun Sid sith suffered back in round 1, has now worn off..

Both sides roll for initiative again, and Sid wins a 2nd time..
So he declares only the 1 strike. Hoping brute force will beat through Jedi John's defenses.. As he is still maintaining LS Combat this means he technically is taking 3 actions so has only -2d from MAPS. As he is no longer suffering the stun, his LS Attack roll is 7d+2, +4d from sense giving him 11d+2 to attack.

Jedi John makes his parry (7d base skill, +5d+2 from sense giving normally 12d+2, but as he is down 2d from stuns and has LS combat up his parry is at 9d+2. Jedi John is once again hit..

Sid sith rolls for damage, and now since he no longer is carrying the Stun and is suffering 1d less in MAPS, his damage is increased to 8d+2. OUCH

Jedi john, burns through 3 more CP, but still takes a wound. This causes his LS combat force power to drop entirely. BOOOOO!!!!

Jedi john unfortunately took a wound, CAN'T act.. WAHHHHHHH..


This is a quick rundown for ya..
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Hwayeez
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
NOTE, there is NO Actual in game benefit for bringing up Sense OR Control first.. its just a thematic thing here!


I know I shouldn't post before I finish my second cup of coffee, but isn't there a benefit to making whichever roll is more difficult for you first in case you have to add additional defensive actions later in the round?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going strictly by the rules as written, your suggestion would be a good idea. There are many, many folks who woupd treat force power activation as one single "turn" even when multiple skills are involved in the activation, and if you are one of those folks, it shouldn't matter.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hwayeez wrote:
garhkal wrote:
NOTE, there is NO Actual in game benefit for bringing up Sense OR Control first.. its just a thematic thing here!


I know I shouldn't post before I finish my second cup of coffee, but isn't there a benefit to making whichever roll is more difficult for you first in case you have to add additional defensive actions later in the round?


That's the only one i can see, but its not really a benefit for LS combat itself, just making it easier to activate it..
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Hwayeez
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learned that lesson when I finally figured out why one of my more meta-gamey players would always shoot at the most difficult target (furthest away, highest dodge, etc.) first, then take his second shot at something easier (closer range, stunned/wounded enemy, etc.).
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JediJones
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, that's just what I needed. Thanks a million garhkal!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hwayeez wrote:
I learned that lesson when I finally figured out why one of my more meta-gamey players would always shoot at the most difficult target (furthest away, highest dodge, etc.) first, then take his second shot at something easier (closer range, stunned/wounded enemy, etc.).


But how would they know who had the highest dodges?

JediJones wrote:
Ah, that's just what I needed. Thanks a million garhkal!


Glad to help JJ..

But to continue that example..

Round 4:
Jedi John no longer has LS combat up, and has a wound. Sith Sid is at full health AND has his LS combat up and active.. Jedi John is down to 4cp. Sid sith is still up at 8cp.

Jedi John realizing he is in peril here, decides to trust in the force (spends one before initiative is even rolled), and thus since his perception is doubled, Easily wins initiative, and thus goes first. As his LS combat is no longer active, he's rolling just his base Lightsaber skill, doubled, which puts him at 14d (WOOHOO), and declares 3 actions, giving him -2d for MAPS and -1d for his wound level. Leaving him with 11d to attack.

Since Sid sith, has yet to act, he's got his full parry level. However, cause of maintaining LS combat, that means his parry is 'as a third action' (-2d) so rolls 11d+2.. Looks close to even stevens.. but alas the dice gods were not with Sid this round as he had 8 of them come up ones (INC his wild die!!!).. So Sid gets hit. BUT cause Jedi John's LS combat was caused to drop last round, he is only rolling the 5d base damage that the saber has.. And as such, deals a stun to Sid..

Now it's sid's turn. As he's now carrying a new stun, his attack roll will be down 2 MORE die to attack (9d+2), so decides to only do 1 attack.. However, cause of those additional 2 dice off, he misses Jedi John, who wised up, and decided to use one of his 3 declared actions to make his parry with, so he doesn't carry any other penalties.

Now its Jedi John's 3rd action (since the 2nd got defaulted to an attack), and since Sid Sith's parry roll is already established and sucks big time, Sid decides to take ANOTHER dice penalty to make a new parry.. So is now down to 8d+2.. And even with a good re-roll, is Still hit.
However, after the damage vs soak is rolled, and he pops off another CP, he is taking no damage.
End of round, Sid is now carrying a stun and is down to 7CP.

Round 5.
Jedi John pops off his 2nd and last force point, but unfortunately for him Sid also uses his only force point. So they roll, and luckily for Jedi John, he barely wins initiative again.

Jedi John calls for 2 attacks this round. He still doesn't have LS combat up and active, so is just rolling his lightsaber skill doubled, giving him 14d base -2d for his one MAP and his wound, leaving him with 12d to roll.

However, sid sith is now rolling his lightsaber skill doubled (14d+4), PLUS his sense skill doubled (12d), minus two dice (as a parry acts as his 3rd action) for MAPS, and a 3rd die off for being stunned, for 23d+4.. Jedi John's skill is NOT sufficient to get through Sid Sith's defenses..

Now its Sids turn.. He declares 4 actions (taking him up to 7 actions total, plus his stun result gives him 7d off). As we already know his combined total is 23d+4 at 3d off, 4 additional dice take him down to 19d+4. This is STILL massive enough to pass the pitiful defenses of Jedi John, who once again defaults his 2nd action to his parry, so he suffers no additional penalties.

Now Jedi john's player is worried, as its SOAKING TIME!!!
Sid Sith picks up his 5d for his lightsaber, and to that adds in Control x2, equaling 10d+4, making 15d+4. However, all his penalties take damage dice off, dropping him back down to 8d+4.. Since Jedi John's Str is doubled (to 8d), he takes yet Another wound..

Now Jedi john is at 2x wound, has no actions left, and is facing Sid's 3 remaining attacks.. the 2nd of which gives him yet another wound, taking Jedi John down into being incapacitated...

Since Sith Sid is working for vader, he KNOWS an alive prize is what Vader wants, so takes his last 2 actions to tie up Jedi John....
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Hwayeez
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Hwayeez wrote:
I learned that lesson when I finally figured out why one of my more meta-gamey players would always shoot at the most difficult target (furthest away, highest dodge, etc.) first, then take his second shot at something easier (closer range, stunned/wounded enemy, etc.).


But how would they know who had the highest dodges?


Only in certain scenarios, of course - with known or obvious enemies.

Or with more metagaming. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I crusssshhhhh metagaming.. With my pinky! Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this, garhkal, it's really useful to go through this slowly a couple of times, instead of scratching ones head in the middle of an exciting duel.

I was just wondering about what you wrote about FP use. You double all skills/attributes - then take away dice from MAPs. My initial thought would be to subtract the MAP penalties - then double the value.

So if Mercenary Mike is shooting at 4 stormtroopers, with a Blaster skill of 6D, and using a FP. Then using your way = 4 actions = -3D MAPs. Blaster skill 6D x2 (FP) = 12D. Mike can use 12-3 = 9D to hit each trooper.

or

Blaster skill 6D - 3D maps = 3D x 2(FP) = 6D for each shot (which is still good, considering he can potentially take out 4 enemies in one round)

The RAW is vague on this, and I'm a bit unsure on what I like best. Alt. 1 will make powerful characters extremely powerful when spending a FP, and Alt. 2 makes FP almost useless for low-level PC's if doing more than 1 action.

Then there's wound penalties, should they be added before or after the doubling?

Of course, getting FP is pretty difficult in the first place, so perhaps my worries of over-powerful PCs are exaggerated...
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out the RAW description of the concentration force power. In it we see that the penalty comes out before die codes are doubled.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Straxus wrote:
Thanks for this, garhkal, it's really useful to go through this slowly a couple of times, instead of scratching ones head in the middle of an exciting duel.

I was just wondering about what you wrote about FP use. You double all skills/attributes - then take away dice from MAPs. My initial thought would be to subtract the MAP penalties - then double the value. .


That's something that's been discussed many a time.. Some point to the Concentration power write up as gospel (subtract maps and other penalties THEN double) but i find that flawed, as the example of concentration has luke flying through the trench at double speed (WHICH SHOULD be a maneuver roll) AND Dodging fire, while doing his shot.. ALL which you couldn't do when using concentration..
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