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Handheld weapon against starships
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d just use the PLEX; it’s already designed to fire different missile types, so just port the Finbat over as a Plex-fired anti-walker missile, with the reduced speed and range being the result of a much smaller drive in the same frame to make way for the heavier warhead.
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Straxus
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, lots of good suggestions here. I'm using the RAW scale system, at least for now.

Seems there's plenty of options to at least distract and maybe hurt the attacking starship a little bit. I'll make a short list of possible weapons, and make them do a search roll to see how good the weapon they discover are. If they think about looking for one, that is Wink
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigger issue, is with the scaling diff, even if they do have a Starfighter strafe them unopposed by their returning fire, its HIGHLY unlikely they will ever be hit.. Even a 6d gunner using a weapon at 2d fire control, rolls 1D after taking the MAP out for his maneuvering, and 6d of scale difference when he shoots.. He'd need at least a 9d gunnery (giving him 4d to hit after all's said and done) to actually be a threat..
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well.... sounds like a great opportunity to see if the RAW has anything that would represent an area of effect air to ground attack (like a strafing run).

In MY OPINION, an air-to-ground attack should be conducted with a character scale weapon (such as a gatling blaster... like a mini-gun or M240 on a helicopter). Damage can still be significant, but the weapon and its fire control system should be designed for an anti personnel role if it is to be effective (likely to hit) a character scale target.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get so hung up on the RAW that you allow it to supersede reality. There are plenty of examples - in the films and in real life - of sufficiently powerful weapons hitting the ground near a person and still doing enough damage to injure or kill, even without a direct hit.

After all, going strictly by the RAW, the Death Star can't kill a Character-Scale target because its 24D Scale modifier makes a direct hit impossible. But just because there are no official rules for what happens to a Character when the planet they are standing on blows up doesn't mean it's an experience they can survive.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Bigger issue, is with the scaling diff, even if they do have a Starfighter strafe them unopposed by their returning fire, its HIGHLY unlikely they will ever be hit.. Even a 6d gunner using a weapon at 2d fire control, rolls 1D after taking the MAP out for his maneuvering, and 6d of scale difference when he shoots.. He'd need at least a 9d gunnery (giving him 4d to hit after all's said and done) to actually be a threat..

Or perhaps instead...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Well.... sounds like a great opportunity to see if the RAW has anything that would represent an area of effect air to ground attack (like a strafing run).

In MY OPINION, an air-to-ground attack should be conducted with a character scale weapon (such as a gatling blaster... like a mini-gun or M240 on a helicopter). Damage can still be significant, but the weapon and its fire control system should be designed for an anti personnel role if it is to be effective (likely to hit) a character scale target.


In my opinion most 'scaled' weapons should have a blast radius.. BUT me and CRM have discussed that in other threads.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. In terms of blasters/laser cannons, though, such a concept defies the idea of a blast radius. Instead, the gunner would rely on spraying the ground with a high volume of fire at a rapid rate, rather than pinpoint precision of single shots.

In either case, though, generally speaking, targeting systems do specific things and are designed/engineered for specific kinds of targets.

As for shooting a starfighter out of the sky, my take would be to give the PCs a one-shot weapon that does big damage. Make it walker or starfighter scale, but small enough/light enough to be man-portable (like an AT-4 or, as the OP mentioned, a stinger). It's not unreasonable.

The nice thing about scaling the weapon is that the scale modifier takes into account the reality of the difficulty of quickly acquiring smaller scale targets, who can easily avoid a direct hit simply be moving a few steps to one side, charging at the shooter, etc... whereas a rifle or pistol can be quickly maneuvered to compensate for the target's movement, the scaled weapon cannot. So unless the shooter is trying to kill his enemies by shooting at an appropriately scaled target (for example, shooting the bunker they're hiding in or the tank they're hiding behind), the chances of hitting/killing are reduced because the shooter is relying on a direct hit with a cumbersome weapon.

Piggybacking on CRM's example, the PCs can kill the pilot by targeting his ship with a starfighter scale weapon, whereas using a character scale weapon to target the pilot would result in the firepower being harmlessly absorbed by the ship itself.

For large scale attacks, don't make the mistake of thinking that the weapon itself can be used to select a specific character scale target. The shooter selects an area where the intended target is suspected (or known) to be, and targets that area. If the target is indeed within the area, then a failed dodge roll is a forgone conclusion. If we are assuming that the shooter is relying on the "scale" of the weapon to score a hit, I propose the following:

[i]A gunner can choose to ignore both scale modifiers (both the attacker's and the defender's) in order to engage targets of a different scale. If a hit is successful, then damage is rolled normally against the target (no scale modifier).

By not accepting the scale bonus, the shooter is basically being highly selective and specific with his targeting such that if he "misses" then the shot would have no appreciable effect, even if it "impacts" on some part of the larger whole. Conversely, if the target is smaller, it represents the idea that the "blast radius" isn't as powerful as a direct hit on the target, but nevertheless manages to include the space that the target is standing in.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But any weapon of sufficient power striking a solid object (in this case, the ground near a character or group of characters) is going to release a lot of energy in the form of shockwaves, shrapnel, superheated gases (plasma), etc. The ground isn't going to just harmlessly suck up and absorb a blast of focused energy. Someone standing nearby may not take the full force of the blast, but may get enough of the peripheral effects to be injured or killed.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this is bringing reality into it too much, but does anyone know how Stinger Missiles work? I know that they have a max altitude capability, but beyond that...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
Maybe this is bringing reality into it too much, but does anyone know how Stinger Missiles work? I know that they have a max altitude capability, but beyond that...

The Stinger is a heat-seeking fire-and forget missile that functions generally like the repulsor-homing variant of the Plex. Both have to get a clear sensor image of their target before they can be accurately fired.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also variants of man-portable ('character scale') weapons that actually do some other-scale damage - an example that comes to mind is the AT-4, particularly when it is loaded with HEAT or HEDP 502. Also, the HEDP 502 or the HE variant would be quite effective in giving anti-personnel 'splash damage'.

Anyways, the result of a TIE strafing run isn't any particular character - I'd do it as a "to whom it may concern" terrain hazard, and characters that fail their dodge roll against some difficulty will get character scale damage from spalling structures, near hits, and so on. If you get straight up hit with a TIE fighter's cannons, you'd be dead-dead.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
But any weapon of sufficient power striking a solid object (in this case, the ground near a character or group of characters) is going to release a lot of energy in the form of shockwaves, shrapnel, superheated gases (plasma), etc. The ground isn't going to just harmlessly suck up and absorb a blast of focused energy. Someone standing nearby may not take the full force of the blast, but may get enough of the peripheral effects to be injured or killed.


That is exactly what the rule represents: an X-wing's 6D damage is still going to hurt, even without the scale modifier.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But a flat 6D will, on average, beat the Strength of most characters by at least 10 points. That will result in an unrealistic distribution of damage results, as characters who get hit at all are far more likely to get a Wounded or Incapacitated result than they are a Stunned result. That’s just not how a blast radius effect works.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I admit its not perfect... but then, what rule set is?

I still feel that its absurd to attempt to shoot a man-sized target with a starfighter scale targeting system. It males sense to target a bunkr o some such, theeby damaging the character indirectly, but the idea of an air-to-air weapon being used to "strafe" is just bad GMing IMO.

And that scene in Ep 7 is even more idiotic (says me, which means very little, if anything at all) Razz
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