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"Revised" Force Skills
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject: "Revised" Force Skills Reply with quote

Well, I've re-done my force powers to streamline gameplay a bit, I'm currently in the process of playtesting my new Force rules with single roll force powers. Thusfar, I'm pretty happy with how everything is working out, although I've not used every power yet in game yet. This system also incorporates a "Force" Attribute, with Control, Sense, and Alter as skills underneath it.

Here is a link to the PDF. I do need to go through the source document again and clean up a few things, I noticed in my sense column I listed Lightsaber Combat, which has actually been merged with Combat Sense.

If you guys have any feedback, I appreciate it. I'm sure that there will be a few grumblings, but I just wanted to let you know that this is simply what I'll be using for my Force users in my games going forward, whether you choose to use what I've got here is your own decision. Also, if you think that a power should be re-categorized, it's easy enough for you to just pick a different force skill when you have your players roll.

I was originally going to have this released with Wildspace magazine, but since the latest issue went sort of tits up some time ago, I figured I'd share it with everyone here instead.

I still need to convert over dark side powers to the system.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicely done!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Naaman!

If you do decide to use the rules, let me know how they work out in your group.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: "Revised" Force Skills Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Well, I've re-done my force powers to streamline gameplay a bit, I'm currently in the process of playtesting my new Force rules with single roll force powers. Thusfar, I'm pretty happy with how everything is working out, although I've not used every power yet in game yet. This system also incorporates a "Force" Attribute, with Control, Sense, and Alter as skills underneath it.

Here is a link to the PDF. I do need to go through the source document again and clean up a few things, I noticed in my sense column I listed Lightsaber Combat, which has actually been merged with Combat Sense.

If you guys have any feedback, I appreciate it. I'm sure that there will be a few grumblings, but I just wanted to let you know that this is simply what I'll be using for my Force users in my games going forward, whether you choose to use what I've got here is your own decision. Also, if you think that a power should be re-categorized, it's easy enough for you to just pick a different force skill when you have your players roll.

I was originally going to have this released with Wildspace magazine, but since the latest issue went sort of tits up some time ago, I figured I'd share it with everyone here instead.

I still need to convert over dark side powers to the system.

Wow! You know I'm committed to The Force attribute too. I've been wanting to have single roll powers too, but my idea was just to add the difficulties together and add the Force skill dice together, a "bucket of dice" method. Great job on the document. This is a lot of food for thought.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Whill! I hope it helps in some way. When I get around to doing the dark side powers, I'll post a link in this thread as well.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: "Revised" Force Skills Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:

If you guys have any feedback, I appreciate it. I'm sure that there will be a few grumblings, but I just wanted to let you know that this is simply what I'll be using for my Force users in my games going forward, whether you choose to use what I've got here is your own decision. Also, if you think that a power should be re-categorized, it's easy enough for you to just pick a different force skill when you have your players roll.


So far looks nice. Though some questions first off.
Is the starting character getting built, taking from his or her 18d attribute allocation to boost the force attribute starting out?
Secondly, why on the 'improving it' is it at only 5cp per # of dice you have in it, when all other attributes are 10cps per d to increase? Is it cause there's also the requirement to spend an FP on it??

Next on the 'force attribute min/max'. If Say i am of a race that has 1d to 5d max, it says i can try to improve it beyond the max, at double cost (10cp/d vice 5, and 2 FP). BUT i see no mentioning about whether there's a Dice off with the DM like there is BTB when you try to raise any regular attribute above racial maximums.. Is that part removed??

Next we get to the powers write up. BTB with ab/dis when used to try and absorb a bolt of blaster fire, its the base diff PLUS the damage roll. You just reduced it to make the base roll and if so, what you rolled sets the 'power you can absorb'.

Also on that, when you say "if they fail they suffer FULL damage from the bolt"? What do you mean by full damage here? Is that, say if i shoot with a rifle (5d standard) its 29 damage? Or what was rolled as is?

On accelerated healing, you mention in the example Ana using it when incap, but in that state you are unconscious, so how could ana be trying accel healing??

On the life merge power. I LOVE IT!! Force ghosts rejoice.

Up the wall = interesting power.. Matrix like i feel.

On your revised combat sense. You don't mention how long it lasts for, just that using it acts like LS combat, but has no MAPS from it..AND now also works for brawl/brawl parry, thrown weapons, melee/melee parry.. It sounds like a 'combat mastery' skill.. not a force power.

For your revised danger sense. It still sounds like its a willfully activated power by the jedi.. SO if he has not activated it, does it do anything?

Then onto perfect telepathy. What's the point in this power, when you already have receptive/projective telepathy?

Lastly there are references in some powers to "Control SKILL roll, or Sense skill dice". Are you now making them like actual Skills under the force attribute?
If so, how much does it cost to raise them?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is the starting character getting built, taking from his or her 18d attribute allocation to boost the force attribute starting out?
Secondly, why on the 'improving it' is it at only 5cp per # of dice you have in it, when all other attributes are 10cps per d to increase? Is it cause there's also the requirement to spend an FP on it??


Yes, and because it's assumed in the game that the Force Attribute will be raised during play because it is used as basic damage for attacks like Force Push and Force Lightning. In my games, CP aren't as hard to come by as Force Points, and because of the rarity and high cost of a Force Point, I'm of the opinion that will be enough of a cost for a character to deepen their connection to the Force.

Quote:
Next on the 'force attribute min/max'. If Say i am of a race that has 1d to 5d max, it says i can try to improve it beyond the max, at double cost (10cp/d vice 5, and 2 FP). BUT i see no mentioning about whether there's a Dice off with the DM like there is BTB when you try to raise any regular attribute above racial maximums.. Is that part removed??


Yes, because it requires GM approval to even attempt to go past the "Species Maximum" by throwing in the GM's approval as a stop-gap measure, I felt that a roll-off was an unnecessary step. If a GM wishes for a roll-off, they're more than welcome to add that as a requirement.

Quote:
Next we get to the powers write up. BTB with ab/dis when used to try and absorb a bolt of blaster fire, its the base diff PLUS the damage roll. You just reduced it to make the base roll and if so, what you rolled sets the 'power you can absorb'.

Also on that, when you say "if they fail they suffer FULL damage from the bolt"? What do you mean by full damage here? Is that, say if i shoot with a rifle (5d standard) its 29 damage? Or what was rolled as is?


The power is written up like the book, the only changes are the addition of absorbing larger scale blasts and area affect ones, the caveat is that like with Martial Art Skills in the SpecForce handbook, they only have to beat the minimum difficulty to successfully activate the ability. However, like with a martial art move, if they do not successfully roll to hit (or in this case soak) they fail to perform the power and must soak the blaster bolt damage rolled with an opposed strength. It's still a gamble, but with less of a difficulty bloat. A Blaster Rifle shot may require a check from 12-30 to successfully absorb, wild-die nonwithstanding, which seems tricky enough for me.

Also, with the way that the power is written, the idea is that this power can be used as a reaction skill.

Quote:
On accelerated healing, you mention in the example Ana using it when incap, but in that state you are unconscious, so how could ana be trying accel healing??


Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter... If the player is able to roll with the wound penalties from being incapacitated, then they can subconsciously activate the power, much like Luke did on Hoth. He wasn't conscious when he went into the bacta tank, but as his GM, I would have allowed him to roll to shorten his tank time. Your opinion may differ, and that's okay.

Quote:

On the life merge power. I LOVE IT!! Force ghosts rejoice.


I'm glad you approve! I wish I could take credit for it, but I found it in one of my various electronic sources with no credit to give, but I figured that a player may wish to become a Force Ghost upon death rather than just becoming a wiped sheet.

Quote:
Up the wall = interesting power.. Matrix like i feel.


It's specifically from the Jedi Outcast and Academy games, where a character could run up walls to flip behind opponents. Also, not written by me, but included it for some of my more acrobatic minded Jedi.

Quote:
On your revised combat sense. You don't mention how long it lasts for, just that using it acts like LS combat, but has no MAPS from it..AND now also works for brawl/brawl parry, thrown weapons, melee/melee parry.. It sounds like a 'combat mastery' skill.. not a force power.


It still requires a roll to bring up, but calculating MAPs for Force Powers before was losing me players left and right in many of my games. They just didn't have the patience for doing that much book-keeping. I've halved the effectiveness of LSC, and also added in options for players wanting to play something other than a saber-toting wizard. Say someone wants to run a Chirrut type character, all they have to do is give him the new Combat sense power, and he can get a little bump up in his Melee or Martial Arts skills, which I don't feel is unreasonable. I could make a Jedi Hand to Hand power, and a Jedi Melee power, and a Jedi thrown power, but the idea was to streamline the system, adding bloat to the power list, in my mind, doesn't really accomplish that.

It lasts until the targets rolled against are either dead, or the Jedi has decided to end the fight. But, you raise an interesting formatting point, I'll make sure to address that when I look into the source document.

Lightsaber combat has always been a sore spot for this system. People either love it or hate it, I've always been torn. Jedi are trained to instinctively fight, but with all of the bookkeeping and keeping track of MAPs, the power always felt like an superfluous math assignment. I want my player Jedi to be able to hop into a lightsaber duel with the BBEG without having to spend 20 minutes each roll factoring in all of the various force powers they're using, especially LSC. Also, it should be noted, that in my games I use the Dueling Saber rules to add more cinematic feel to lightsaber fights instead of the first person to hit, wins.

Quote:
For your revised danger sense. It still sounds like its a willfully activated power by the jedi.. SO if he has not activated it, does it do anything?


It is willfully activated, a nice GM might roll Sense behind the screen and allow a passive use of the power if they wish, but I've seen the slap down drag out fights about this and decided to leave the power alone and leave it up to GM's decision. So, no, it doesn't do anything unless activated/kept up.

Quote:
Then onto perfect telepathy. What's the point in this power, when you already have receptive/projective telepathy?


Perfect telepathy takes the abilities of receptive/projective telepathy to the next level. By RAW, projective telepathy only allows you to send up to 5 words, Perfect telepathy would allow a Jedi to have an entire conversation without opening their mouth, in theory. This power was converted by Cheshire and the rancorpit crew from one of the D20 books. I liked the additional level of communication offered by it, so I decided to include it.

Quote:
Lastly there are references in some powers to "Control SKILL roll, or Sense skill dice". Are you now making them like actual Skills under the force attribute?
If so, how much does it cost to raise them?


Yes. They have become "standard" skills underneath "The Force" attribute. They're increased by the usual means that one would increase a skill under RAW. The big limiter on these, is that the major force damaging powers are now capped at whatever "The Force" attribute is. So, say for TK Kill, damage roll would be "The Force" vs. Perception to kill someone. The same with Force Push and Force Lightning. Meaning that even a badass with a maxed Force attribute would still only be doing 5D damage with his Force Lightning. But, like the original power, the lighting snakes around and bypasses armor defense, making it more useful than a Blaster Rifle.

Also, I use a combination of corruption rules mixed with darkside points to use on players who disregard the Jedi Code, so even though some powers may seem like they're "too easy" or "too powerful" flagrant abuse of the Force will end up with a character being stripped to NPC status and the group has now just found themselves a powerful antagonist.

I appreciate you taking the time to read through the document, garkhal, and for asking for clarification. Sometimes when a person is reading something to themselves, it's hard to spot something which may not be easily understood by someone, because it's already understood in your own head. Cool
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Yes, and because it's assumed in the game that the Force Attribute will be raised during play because it is used as basic damage for attacks like Force Push and Force Lightning. In my games, CP aren't as hard to come by as Force Points, and because of the rarity and high cost of a Force Point, I'm of the opinion that will be enough of a cost for a character to deepen their connection to the Force.


So if CP are easier to get than normal, wouldn't or shouldn't it them be costlier to raise attributes?

Raven Redstar wrote:
Yes, because it requires GM approval to even attempt to go past the "Species Maximum" by throwing in the GM's approval as a stop-gap measure, I felt that a roll-off was an unnecessary step. If a GM wishes for a roll-off, they're more than welcome to add that as a requirement.


Fair enough.

Raven Redstar wrote:
The power is written up like the book, the only changes are the addition of absorbing larger scale blasts and area affect ones. Snip..

It's still a gamble, but with less of a difficulty bloat.


And that's what i was on about. The base blue cover and R&E rule book, both say for Ab/Dis, "the power may be used to absorb blaster bolts or other energy attacks, at a base moderate difficulty PLUS the damage roll of the attacker"

Raven Redstar wrote:
A Blaster Rifle shot may require a check from 12-30 to successfully absorb, wild-die nonwithstanding, which seems tricky enough for me.


Seems like its making it a lot easier for a character then to absorb damage from firefights. Which as per the movies is NOT what we ever saw most jedi doing. IN fact, other than Vader's absorbing the shot of Han, or Yoda's absorbing of the Emperor's force lightning (or dookou's) was never actually shown.

Raven Redstar wrote:
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter... If the player is able to roll with the wound penalties from being incapacitated, then they can subconsciously activate the power, much like Luke did on Hoth. He wasn't conscious when he went into the bacta tank, but as his GM, I would have allowed him to roll to shorten his tank time. Your opinion may differ, and that's okay.


But isn't that what the "Remain Conscious" power is for.. To get back to a conscious state, once one's KO'ed, to then use Accel healing??

Raven Redstar wrote:
I'm glad you approve! I wish I could take credit for it, but I found it in one of my various electronic sources with no credit to give, but I figured that a player may wish to become a Force Ghost upon death rather than just becoming a wiped sheet.


On this. Is the roll FOR that just based on their force attribute itself, OR on their "Control subskill"?

Raven Redstar wrote:
It's specifically from the Jedi Outcast and Academy games, where a character could run up walls to flip behind opponents. Also, not written by me, but included it for some of my more acrobatic minded Jedi.


Strange, i never remember 'running up walls' in the Jedi outcast game..

Raven Redstar wrote:
It still requires a roll to bring up, but calculating MAPs for Force Powers before was losing me players left and right in many of my games.


MAPS were one of the main balancing factors for jedi though. That and the whole "having to follow the code"..

Raven Redstar wrote:
and also added in options for players wanting to play something other than a saber-toting wizard. Say someone wants to run a Chirrut type character, all they have to do is give him the new Combat sense power, and he can get a little bump up in his Melee or Martial Arts skills, which I don't feel is unreasonable. I could make a Jedi Hand to Hand power, and a Jedi Melee power, and a Jedi thrown power, but the idea was to streamline the system, adding bloat to the power list, in my mind, doesn't really accomplish that.


IF you didn't want bloat, why then did you add in so many powers from other sources?? Like that 'run up the wall, or those shatterpoint powers'?

Raven Redstar wrote:
It lasts until the targets rolled against are either dead, or the Jedi has decided to end the fight. But, you raise an interesting formatting point, I'll make sure to address that when I look into the source document.


The original "Combat sense" power lasts for just 10 rounds.. Period! With them letting it linger, it could last (and thus give bonuses) For a lot more than just 10 rounds..

Raven Redstar wrote:
It is willfully activated, a nice GM might roll Sense behind the screen and allow a passive use of the power if they wish, but I've seen the slap down drag out fights about this and decided to leave the power alone and leave it up to GM's decision. So, no, it doesn't do anything unless activated/kept up.


Fair enough. I also like having it as "They need to use it" rather than making it passive..

Raven Redstar wrote:
Perfect telepathy takes the abilities of receptive/projective telepathy to the next level. By RAW, projective telepathy only allows you to send up to 5 words, Perfect telepathy would allow a Jedi to have an entire conversation without opening their mouth, in theory. This power was converted by Cheshire and the rancorpit crew from one of the D20 books. I liked the additional level of communication offered by it, so I decided to include it.


Interesting. IMO that's not what the force is for, RT/PT is more for quick thoughts, not holding full convo's.. BUT that's me.

Raven Redstar wrote:
Yes. They have become "standard" skills underneath "The Force" attribute. They're increased by the usual means that one would increase a skill under RAW. The big limiter on these, is that the major force damaging powers are now capped at whatever "The Force" attribute is. So, say for TK Kill, damage roll would be "The Force" vs. Perception to kill someone. The same with Force Push and Force Lightning. Meaning that even a badass with a maxed Force attribute would still only be doing 5D damage with his Force Lightning. But, like the original power, the lighting snakes around and bypasses armor defense, making it more useful than a Blaster Rifle.


But with the attribute already being a lot cheaper than normal to raise, and now the sub-powers being treated like skills (also cheaper), it seems to ME that it would be a lot easier for characters to become very strong in the force a lot quicker than they normally would..

BTB a base jedi (Say the quixotic 1e template) starting at 1d in cont and sense, who spent 4 of his initial dice into each bringing them to 3d both. Would then have to spend, 20cp to learn alter, 12cp (dble cost without a teacher) to raise it to 2d, +24cp to get to 3d, 36 EACH to get all 3 to 4d, 48 EACH to get up to 5d, 60 to get to 6d each. So to get to 6d for all 3 force skills normally would take someone 488cp..

With your way, at 5x, that means someone would (starting out at 1d in the force attribute) could take it to 5d at a cost of 150cp. And then raise all 3 skills to 7d, and have 41cp left over.. making him more powerful..

Raven Redstar wrote:
I appreciate you taking the time to read through the document, garkhal, and for asking for clarification. Sometimes when a person is reading something to themselves, it's hard to spot something which may not be easily understood by someone, because it's already understood in your own head. Cool


Glad to help out.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's possible that he thinks Jedi are too nerfed in the first place.

I for one, agree that force powers already come with a balancing factor, which is that after a random number of dark side points (2 or more, basically), there is a chance the character will be lost to the dark side (and it's guaranteed if the character ever gains 7 dark side points).

To get rid of a dark side point, the character has to give up a force point, etc, etc.

Consider also that a character like a sniper can kill from the shadows without (necessarily) getting a dark side point, while a force user who, for example, uses force choke for ANY reason (even in self defense or to protect babies) gets a dark side point.

Considering that the CPs and skill dice spent on alter could have been spent on blaster instead, I don't see a game balance issue just because a character can achieve a higher power level faster.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
BTB a base jedi (Say the quixotic 1e template) starting at 1d in cont and sense, who spent 4 of his initial dice into each bringing them to 3d both. Would then have to spend, 20cp to learn alter, 12cp (dble cost without a teacher) to raise it to 2d, +24cp to get to 3d, 36 EACH to get all 3 to 4d, 48 EACH to get up to 5d, 60 to get to 6d each. So to get to 6d for all 3 force skills normally would take someone 488cp..

With your way, at 5x, that means someone would (starting out at 1d in the force attribute) could take it to 5d at a cost of 150cp. And then raise all 3 skills to 7d, and have 41cp left over.. making him more powerful..


Quote:
So if CP are easier to get than normal, wouldn't or shouldn't it them be costlier to raise attributes?


I can see how as a SPARKS gamer, it would seem cheap to you. Accruing a ton of CP by simply surviving run adventures, or running adventures for other people, 150 CP seems like nothing, but it's not just 150 CP, it's 150 CP and 13 Force Points. As well as months if not years of play time. And, this is not taking into account points spent on other skills and simply surviving adventures.

I think it was misunderstood that I shower my players with character points when I wrote:

Quote:
In my games, CP aren't as hard to come by as Force Points, and because of the rarity and high cost of a Force Point


I said CP aren't as hard to come by as force points. Not that CP are given in abundance.

Quote:
But with the attribute already being a lot cheaper than normal to raise, and now the sub-powers being treated like skills (also cheaper), it seems to ME that it would be a lot easier for characters to become very strong in the force a lot quicker than they normally would..


This is no really something that I'm terribly concerned over in my games. I tend to run for smaller groups, so having one Jedi who is "quickly" becoming skilled versus a combat character who is maxing his combat skills and max modifying his armor and weaponry they'll more or less be on equal footing for a while.

You're also not addressing the fact that a character who abuses the Force becomes an NPC. The potential to permenantly lose a character that a player has spent time and energy playing and levelling up is something that is almost unheard of in any RPG. But, because the ease of hard core abuse, I strictly enforce the "be good, or else!" rule.

Quote:
Interesting. IMO that's not what the force is for, RT/PT is more for quick thoughts, not holding full convo's.. BUT that's me.


You're welcome to your opinion. There are enough telepathic aliens that have been introduced in the SWU, that I don't have a problem with this progression.

Quote:
The original "Combat sense" power lasts for just 10 rounds.. Period! With them letting it linger, it could last (and thus give bonuses) For a lot more than just 10 rounds..


Putting a time limit on the power just seems like a moot point. Weak enemies like pirates or imperial troops won't last 10 rounds unless attacking with a high number of troops, in which case, the Jedi may not even be able to activate the power against all of them. Against 10 opponents the Jedi is looking at a minimum difficulty of 33 (Easy +3 for each additional target).

Against a stronger opponent, the fight may last 10 round or more, but I was trying to cut back on the number of rolls made.

Quote:

IF you didn't want bloat, why then did you add in so many powers from other sources?? Like that 'run up the wall, or those shatterpoint powers'?


Because they're cool. Because they were already written up, and it didn't take much effort to add them in. Writing up new powers from or mostly from scratch was not my goal. They seemed like powers that my players may want to take in the future, and I run the game for them to have fun. That's where my fun comes in.

Quote:
On this. Is the roll FOR that just based on their force attribute itself, OR on their "Control subskill"?


Control sub-skill was my initial inclination. Just as always, learning powers takes GM's approval, so not many characters will end up learning the power, but I wanted to have it there just in case.

Quote:
But isn't that what the "Remain Conscious" power is for.. To get back to a conscious state, once one's KO'ed, to then use Accel healing??


Sure, you could go that way as well.

Quote:
Seems like its making it a lot easier for a character then to absorb damage from firefights. Which as per the movies is NOT what we ever saw most jedi doing. IN fact, other than Vader's absorbing the shot of Han, or Yoda's absorbing of the Emperor's force lightning (or dookou's) was never actually shown.


It is easier, but even my Jedi characters with force attributes in the 6-7D don't cap a heroic difficulty all the time. So, it's still a gamble for them, try it and fail, and you take the full blast of the weapon.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
It's possible that he thinks Jedi are too nerfed in the first place.

I for one, agree that force powers already come with a balancing factor, which is that after a random number of dark side points (2 or more, basically), there is a chance the character will be lost to the dark side (and it's guaranteed if the character ever gains 7 dark side points).

To get rid of a dark side point, the character has to give up a force point, etc, etc.

Consider also that a character like a sniper can kill from the shadows without (necessarily) getting a dark side point, while a force user who, for example, uses force choke for ANY reason (even in self defense or to protect babies) gets a dark side point.

Considering that the CPs and skill dice spent on alter could have been spent on blaster instead, I don't see a game balance issue just because a character can achieve a higher power level faster.


Those are all very good points Naaman. And, that Force Point spent to remove a Dark Side Point is one that can't be spent on increasing your Force Attribute.

Also, that 150 CP is enough to raise a character's skill (any skill) from 4D to 10D that's without a specialization, and they'd still have 3 points left over. That's a huge investment. One that takes most players I've seen a year or more of game sessions even when we were meeting multiple times a week to play.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I can see how as a SPARKS gamer, it would seem cheap to you. Accruing a ton of CP by simply surviving run adventures, or running adventures for other people, 150 CP seems like nothing, but it's not just 150 CP, it's 150 CP and 13 Force Points. As well as months if not years of play time. And, this is not taking into account points spent on other skills and simply surviving adventures.

I think it was misunderstood that I shower my players with character points when I wrote:


It did seem to me, that you were hinting that CP are handed out a lot easier than normal.. WHich does sound kind of like how sparks handles things..

Raven Redstar wrote:
You're welcome to your opinion. There are enough telepathic aliens that have been introduced in the SWU, that I don't have a problem with this progression.


Such as? Most of what i've seen in the films, and read in novels, doesn't seem to support fully telepathic aliens.. Unless that's a cartoon add on i don't know about.

Raven Redstar wrote:
Putting a time limit on the power just seems like a moot point. Weak enemies like pirates or imperial troops won't last 10 rounds unless attacking with a high number of troops, in which case, the Jedi may not even be able to activate the power against all of them. Against 10 opponents the Jedi is looking at a minimum difficulty of 33 (Easy +3 for each additional target).

Against a stronger opponent, the fight may last 10 round or more, but I was trying to cut back on the number of rolls made.


Copy that.

Raven Redstar wrote:
Because they're cool. Because they were already written up, and it didn't take much effort to add them in. Writing up new powers from or mostly from scratch was not my goal. They seemed like powers that my players may want to take in the future, and I run the game for them to have fun. That's where my fun comes in.


Fair enough. It just seems a little strange, that you add in a lot of other pwers, cause "they are there", but feel its bloating things to sep LS combat, from a force enhanced brawl, or melee combat power.. Especially since we've never actually SEEN any evidence of that in the films. And no i don't consider what Chirwoot did in Rogue one to be 'force enhanced stick fighting.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Fair enough. It just seems a little strange, that you add in a lot of other pwers, cause "they are there", but feel its bloating things to sep LS combat, from a force enhanced brawl, or melee combat power.. Especially since we've never actually SEEN any evidence of that in the films. And no i don't consider what Chirwoot did in Rogue one to be 'force enhanced stick fighting.


Humans are strange creatures, no?

If you take into account the RAW version of Combat Sense, Jedi were already able to do this with a single power with a flat +4D bonus to all combat skills, which is actually better than the power I'm suggesting until the Jedi achieves a Sense skill over 8D. On top of that, they could ignore initiative and go whenever they wanted in combat. Also, by folding these powers together, I've put a limiter on the powers that could be stacked together to really break the system. LSC + Combat Sense turned a Jedi's combat skills up into overdrive for 10 rounds. My version in many ways is less powerful than either power by themselves, and especially less powerful than both combined. So, I'm happy with it the way that it is.

Quote:
Such as? Most of what i've seen in the films, and read in novels, doesn't seem to support fully telepathic aliens.. Unless that's a cartoon add on i don't know about.


Comics mostly, but the 5 word limit per power roll was something done by WEG because in the classic trilogy we only ever see Luke or Vader say a single name or word. The power is a converted D20 power. If you don't like it, don't use it. I like it, I'll use it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a little question, or more a thought.
How will this look, the revised list I mean with the current CSA force skills.
Basically drop the added Force Attribute and go with the three we have.

Control powers rolled with one attribute, control and the like.
I can still see a 1 power/pip on this, and I like the list.
I like having powers connected to one skill, to me it makes both more sense and is easier to keep track of.

I made this character starter as an example. Values in (*) are the RAW number of powers/force skill.

Type:
DEXTERITY 3D
Dodge 4D, Lightsaber 5D
KNOWLEDGE 2D
MECHANICAL 2D
PERCEPTION 3D
Investigation 4D
STRENGTH 3D
TECHNICAL 2D
Lightsaber Repair 3D
Special Abilities:
Force skills:
Control:2D(4)
Sense:1D+2(3)
Alter:1D+1(2)
Force Powers:
Control: Absorb/Dissipate Energy, Accelerate Healing,Enhance Attribute, Reduce Injury
Sense: Danger Sense, Instinctive Astrogation, Lightsaber Combat
Alter: Affect Mind, Lesser Force Shield
This character is Force-sensitive: Y/N
Force Points: 1
Dark Side Points:
Character Points: 5
Equipment:
Capsule: This is just something I threw together right here to see if the above force skill/force power revision would work without a force attribute, but keeping the "old threesome".
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only issue that you'll come across if you use the list, is that certain powers use "The Force" Attribute as their damage/defense value. Mostly these are going to be Dark Side powers, since the rules are very strict about inflicting damage on another being using the Force.

So, if you're forgoing the central attribute, then you may want to take the 1/2 or 1/3 approach to the Control/Sense/Alter score in places where it mentions the central attribute instead of one of the 3 sub-skills.

I'm glad that you like the list, I hope you get some use out of it. I'm currently working on a playtesting game, but some of the changes I had implemented in my games some time ago (1/2 Sense and Control for Lightsaber Combat).

Let me know how it turns out in your next game!
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