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Star Seeder Size.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:

I think you are on to something.
I am not sure where, but I am quite sure one of the scoursebooks states that you can install passenger acomodtions to ships as well as other modifications by reducing cargo capacity.

The passenger "module" is said to be roughly 10 tons, so a 50 000 cargo, to 5000 passengers seems reasonable.

I also make "head rulings" if a ship seems to be too narrow or otherwise seems incapable of actually having room for the modules, or conversions needed.

It also states that you can add an internal hangar for one fighter (roughly X wing size?) by converting 115 tons.
Howeverl some ships have more than 11 ton capacity but still an actual size making it hard or even impossible.
so some common sense, but a 1/10 passenger conversion seems reasonable for certain size ships


Galaxy Guide 6: Tramp Freighters lists converting 1 passenger for 10 tons of cargo capacity, hence 50,000 gives 5,000 additional passenger capacity.

With the tonnage conversion, I decided to throw that out, and what I did was just took the hanger deck plan and gave it a flat cost of 1/4 the ship's capacity. So, the landing module has a deck area of 375m x 125m of landing space to fit smaller air/space craft. If I had done 115 tons for 1 shuttle or starfighter, then the module would give 434 hanger bays, which just seemed completely outlandish. The ship's scale is 1 square = 25m so I figure that the ship can fit roughly 75 Fighter sized ships (1 per square) or 18 Freighter sized (1 per 4 squares). As it shows a YT-model freighter for scale taking up approximately 4 squares of landing space.

I decided that with the ship's maximum cargo capacity of 200,000 metric tons, each modular deck would equate to 1/4 the potential cargo capacity, so in theory, you could attach 4 full cargo decks to the ship and have a 200k ton cargo hauler. The math was easy enough from there.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Mamatried wrote:

I think you are on to something.
I am not sure where, but I am quite sure one of the scoursebooks states that you can install passenger acomodtions to ships as well as other modifications by reducing cargo capacity.

The passenger "module" is said to be roughly 10 tons, so a 50 000 cargo, to 5000 passengers seems reasonable.

I also make "head rulings" if a ship seems to be too narrow or otherwise seems incapable of actually having room for the modules, or conversions needed.

It also states that you can add an internal hangar for one fighter (roughly X wing size?) by converting 115 tons.
Howeverl some ships have more than 11 ton capacity but still an actual size making it hard or even impossible.
so some common sense, but a 1/10 passenger conversion seems reasonable for certain size ships


Galaxy Guide 6: Tramp Freighters lists converting 1 passenger for 10 tons of cargo capacity, hence 50,000 gives 5,000 additional passenger capacity.

With the tonnage conversion, I decided to throw that out, and what I did was just took the hanger deck plan and gave it a flat cost of 1/4 the ship's capacity. So, the landing module has a deck area of 375m x 125m of landing space to fit smaller air/space craft. If I had done 115 tons for 1 shuttle or starfighter, then the module would give 434 hanger bays, which just seemed completely outlandish. The ship's scale is 1 square = 25m so I figure that the ship can fit roughly 75 Fighter sized ships (1 per square) or 18 Freighter sized (1 per 4 squares). As it shows a YT-model freighter for scale taking up approximately 4 squares of landing space.

I decided that with the ship's maximum cargo capacity of 200,000 metric tons, each modular deck would equate to 1/4 the potential cargo capacity, so in theory, you could attach 4 full cargo decks to the ship and have a 200k ton cargo hauler. The math was easy enough from there.



The 115tons for the 1 ship hangar and I think 130 for a hidden one, harder to see from outside and on sensors.
I think these are both ment for smaller ships, maybe to a maximum of corvette size, even smaller.

The Marauder corvette is 195m long, holds 1 squadron of 12 x wing(or other), I can see this hull having a 2500ton capacity, add now the roughly 1350 for fighters and a 5-600 ton cargo, the rest roughly 600+ tons would then go towards interior, systems etc.

However once you scale this up to a huge @$$ freighter with 100 000 ton capacity, we suddenly get exactly what you discribe here, so I would perhaps have some extra scle thing on these.
Doing it your way at light cruiser sizes and up, as under this a 115ton pr 1 fighter is not outlandish.

Again I would argue some ships regardless of capacity, can not carry due to hull design....like very very narrow, short or othervise
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This specific ship is 550m long on the longest deck (the crew deck and engineering), 434 fighters just seems a little too much IMO. But, however you choose to do things in your game is up to you. Each of the cargo decks is a bit smaller in size (375m based on deck plan).

For the time being, this ship is going to be stationary on an abandoned colony world and used as the rebel base main building until the hostile native population can be either walled out or killed. All its consumables have been spent by the failing colonists and it will take a decent amount of repair to get main power up and running again.

Multiple years of consumables for a capital scale ship is going to run a significant cost, in addition to the fact that because this ship is not moving from an isolated world, those consumables are going to have to be transported there by freighter.

But, once it's up and running, the Rebels of Minos will have a potentially mobile base, which could work to their advantage if they make decent headway for clearing the imperials out of there.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
This specific ship is 550m long on the longest deck (the crew deck and engineering), 434 fighters just seems a little too much IMO. But, however you choose to do things in your game is up to you. Each of the cargo decks is a bit smaller in size (375m based on deck plan).

For the time being, this ship is going to be stationary on an abandoned colony world and used as the rebel base main building until the hostile native population can be either walled out or killed. All its consumables have been spent by the failing colonists and it will take a decent amount of repair to get main power up and running again.

Multiple years of consumables for a capital scale ship is going to run a significant cost, in addition to the fact that because this ship is not moving from an isolated world, those consumables are going to have to be transported there by freighter.

But, once it's up and running, the Rebels of Minos will have a potentially mobile base, which could work to their advantage if they make decent headway for clearing the imperials out of there.


434 fighters do seem a bit on the side of too much.

In general with a capital ship this size I try to imagine an earth wet navy carrier or warship or huge liner then see how much of this and that can it carry.

Like the carriers, they may actually seem to have more planes than size, but have several decks, usually 1 or 2 for storing the planes etc.

How were ship modified during ww2, some given a plane or two, some up armed and up armored.

I don't see these as very different, if we consider the roof height of a fighter hangar I would give it just enough for the fighters to hover out, so if a tie is 7-8 meter in height, then I would say 20-25 meter roof height is enough, this allows for at lest 3 to 4 flight decks at least for storing the fighters, even if the ship only have a main hangar-exit.

Another aspect of small craft compliments, is need and role of the small crafts.
Are fighters needed, scot ships, shuttles, even utility vehicles if a construction role.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A thought about the Star Seeder in general...

While it is large ship compared to other scouts (250 meters with that hullform makes it as larger or larger than most frigates), it's not that big compared to a lot of other craft out there. In a universe where pretty much any craft can be converted to a colony transport if it has enough cargo space available for conversion, I moved to wonder what would be the purpose of a ship this size being used as a colony transport.

What I'm thinking is that the Star Seeder is better suited as a follow-up survey ship, carrying the heavy equipment and survey personnel needed to follow up on promising finds made by smaller, faster scout ships. The ship's transport capacity would allow it to establish survey base camps, as well as small colonies, and its weaponry would be appropriate for fending off claim jumpers. A Star Seeder could even be a villain ship, jumping the claim of a Scout character or group.

IMO, it's silly to lock a ship into just one function, especially when putting ships into a Scout Sourcebook. Establishing a colony on a planet should be a lot further along in the process than the initial scouting of a planet, and a ship that can serve a scouting function as well as a colony transport (limited) should emphasize the scouting aspects.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
A thought about the Star Seeder in general...

While it is large ship compared to other scouts (250 meters with that hullform makes it as larger or larger than most frigates), it's not that big compared to a lot of other craft out there. In a universe where pretty much any craft can be converted to a colony transport if it has enough cargo space available for conversion, I moved to wonder what would be the purpose of a ship this size being used as a colony transport.

What I'm thinking is that the Star Seeder is better suited as a follow-up survey ship, carrying the heavy equipment and survey personnel needed to follow up on promising finds made by smaller, faster scout ships. The ship's transport capacity would allow it to establish survey base camps, as well as small colonies, and its weaponry would be appropriate for fending off claim jumpers. A Star Seeder could even be a villain ship, jumping the claim of a Scout character or group.

IMO, it's silly to lock a ship into just one function, especially when putting ships into a Scout Sourcebook. Establishing a colony on a planet should be a lot further along in the process than the initial scouting of a planet, and a ship that can serve a scouting function as well as a colony transport (limited) should emphasize the scouting aspects.



Very good ideas this, I will probably use this in my games.

One thing I was thinking as to this ship in a scouting role.

I could see this having a landing capability, holding ground/repulsor vehicles and something similar to a mobile base, but for scouting, containing all scouting and exploration stuff, as well as personnel.

A hangar capable of supporting a reasonable number of scout shuttles and the like, maybe somewhere between 2 and 4.

Lightly armed and with fairly good sensors and high consumables for the star seeder.

Troops, maybe one platoon size.

As to combat, this could vary depending on the faction operating the ship, if Imperial, the small craft could reasonably be MRX-BR Pacifiers, very good combat scout crafts and used by the empire.
Maybe even this could warrant 2-4 TIE as well.

A less combat oriented compliment would be some unarmed or lightly armed craft and would mabe fit better with rebels.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the capsule description in Scouts guide, it says that it is usually accompanied by 1 to 2 scout ships.

I agree on the colonizing being further along, but I guess they felt that some colonists just head out into the great unknown with a couple of scout escorts and stake a claim and set up a colony on whatever random world they happen to find that can support life.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A pathfinder/Pioneer type role
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kind of like the Prometheus was..
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Kind of like the Prometheus was..


Yeah something like that, or on our world something like the "mayflower"
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Kind of like the Prometheus was..

That was along my line of thinking, as well. A Star Wars version of the Prometheus would probably be smaller and faster than a Star Seeder, but with less cargo capacity. Each would have its own strengths and weaknesses depending on the mission to which it was assigned.

Mamatried wrote:
Yeah something like that, or on our world something like the "mayflower"

I disagree. The Mayflower was not so much an exploration vessel as a merchant ship pressed into service as a colony transport for the duration of a single trip. At that point in history, a voyage to America was no longer about setting off into the unknown to see what could be found. Several (failed) colonization attempts had already been made at that point. Pathfinder has connotations of going where no one has gone before, blazing a trail to show others the way.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
In the capsule description in Scouts guide, it says that it is usually accompanied by 1 to 2 scout ships.

I agree on the colonizing being further along, but I guess they felt that some colonists just head out into the great unknown with a couple of scout escorts and stake a claim and set up a colony on whatever random world they happen to find that can support life.

IMO, such ventures would be few and far between. Far more likely would be colonies set up by corporations or governments to exploit a natural resource, or occupy a valuable piece of territory. There would most likely be regular traffic back and forth between the colony and its parent / sponsor.

Not that there couldn't be one-way colonization expeditions, but the economics and politics of starting up a colony expedition just to "get away from it all" are going to make doing so very difficult. For one thing, the Empire is going to take a dim view of a group striking out on their own, independently. For another, the cost of purchasing the rights of ownership to a viable world, in addition to the cost of equipping the colony itself, is going to be prohibitive.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Kind of like the Prometheus was..

That was along my line of thinking, as well. A Star Wars version of the Prometheus would probably be smaller and faster than a Star Seeder, but with less cargo capacity. Each would have its own strengths and weaknesses depending on the mission to which it was assigned.

Mamatried wrote:
Yeah something like that, or on our world something like the "mayflower"

I disagree. The Mayflower was not so much an exploration vessel as a merchant ship pressed into service as a colony transport for the duration of a single trip. At that point in history, a voyage to America was no longer about setting off into the unknown to see what could be found. Several (failed) colonization attempts had already been made at that point. Pathfinder has connotations of going where no one has gone before, blazing a trail to show others the way.


The mayflower reference was more a settler type thing, a small (relatively)
ship with settlers, in case of star wars, with enough cargo capacity to hold a small settler group, some needed machinery, maybe some basic defense like some mounted heavy weapons and some vehicles, maybe even a couple of shuttles, with the mother ship either departing or being scavenged into more rescourses or being the link "home"
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also important to ask whether the colony ship is intended to be a one-mission ship that will remain in orbit at the colony or if it will return home after planting the colony. If the idea is a single-use platform, one possibility would be to use a space station (either towed or fitted with a propulsion module) that could remain in orbit and form the focal point for the new company's orbital infrastructure, maybe even serving as a defense platform.

If it is a towed platform, perhaps something along the lines of the Outward Bound, with a group of 4-6 warships on a docking collar to provide the propulsion en route and the basis for a naval defense force once they've reached their destination. That way, nothing has to make the return trip.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
The mayflower reference was more a settler type thing, a small (relatively) ship with settlers, in case of star wars, with enough cargo capacity to hold a small settler group, some needed machinery, maybe some basic defense like some mounted heavy weapons and some vehicles, maybe even a couple of shuttles, with the mother ship either departing or being scavenged into more rescourses or being the link "home"

Any colony that small is going to be very concerned with expenses, and a converted bulk freighter is going to be much more economical than what is effectively an armed survey ship like the Star Seeder. Again, it's not that the Star Seeder couldn't be used as such, but with its weaponry, sensors and cargo capacity, that's a LOT of ship to use just once.
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