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Star Wars The Force Awakens Novelization
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:


PHANTOM ENERGY

ADF does his best to make the Starkiller base weapon make sense, even in this Space Opera universe. I think he does a decent job. He describes "phantom energy", which, I assume was patterned after Dark Matter. The beam is not a laser, and it's not plasma like a turbo-laser. It's made up of this stuff called phantom energy.

I'd have to go back and listen again to get all the details, but basically this stuff will never degrade in velocity. It just keeps going--out of the galaxy is possible--unless it hits something with enough mass to stop it.

When it does hit something--a planet--it actually passes through the atmosphere, through the crust, to interact with the core of a target world. It disrupts the gravity of a planet, moving and heating up the gravitons, until the world explodes in what scientists call a pocket nova.

Hosnian Prime was destroyed by this shot of phantom energy, but it wasn't disrupted into nothingness. Instead, the planet was heated on the molecular level until it turned into a star.

So now, the Hosnian system is a binary star system.


Well, no, not a binary star system now. It's more of a senary (i.e. six suns) star system since the Starkiller beam split into 5 beams, each of which destroyed a single planet including Hosnian Prime. When you take into account the Hosnian system's original sun (assuming it had only a single sun originally and wasn't a binary or trinary system before Starkiller came calling), then that means six suns now (the original sun plus 5 planets now converted into suns). Hence, a senary star system. (See unitary, binary, trinary, quaternary, quintary, senary sequence here.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
If Abrams meant her to be a Skywalker, how does he approach Rian Johnson’s reveal?


I read an interview with Rian, and he refers to the "certain point of view" comment that Kenobi makes when confronted by Luke about Luke's father.

So, there is at least some thinking in that direction.

Also, if its true that Abrams wrote treatments for all three episodes, and Rian decided not to follow Abrams' ideas, we may see a return to Abram's ideas in Episode IX.



Quote:
Anyway, you’re making me want to try this audiobook again.


I'm really enjoying the book. A lot. Maybe you tackled it too early? Too soon after having seen TFA? Or, maybe you were just not in the mood for it?





Quote:
Based on the timing of the release, the narrator can not have seen the movie before recording it, which means his Han voice is based on the OT, not on Ford’s current voice. Is that so?


Hmmm. I would say that is true.

Marc Thompson is probably the best Star Wars narrator out there. He's amazing with Han's OT voice and Luke's OT voice. So far, I think he's done a good job with Han's voice in this book, though it did remind me of the OT voice I've heard him do.

I don't expect a narrator to be perfect with voices. I just want them to tell me a good story. Not read it. Make me feel it. Like a good raconteur that you might run into in a tavern.

Thompson does that. He reads the text and puts a lot of emotion in that. If someone is sneaking around or trepidatious about something, you feel it in his narration. If they are fighting, then you feel the effort. He's good with that kind of stuff. That, and voices. You can tell Han from Luke from Rey from Unkarr Plutt from C-3P0 from General Hux. That's a hell of a skill all by itself. I've read good narrators who can't do voices, and I always prefer those who can do voices well and be able to single out who is talking when I listen.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Well, no, not a binary star system now.


I get you, but I'm just reporting what was in the book. It said "binary".

Could it be that the other worlds and moons were destroyed in the bigger event of Hosnian Prime transforming in a star?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve listened to Thompson read the Thrawn Trilogy and The Hand of Thrawn half a dozen times in the past few years. I’m rather addicted. Embarassed I’m almost to the end of VotF, in fact. I’ll give TFA a try next.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
PHANTOM ENERGY

ADF does his best to make the Starkiller base weapon make sense, even in this Space Opera universe. I think he does a decent job. He describes "phantom energy", which, I assume was patterned after Dark Matter. The beam is not a laser, and it's not plasma like a turbo-laser. It's made up of this stuff called phantom energy.

I'd have to go back and listen again to get all the details, but basically this stuff will never degrade in velocity. It just keeps going--out of the galaxy is possible--unless it hits something with enough mass to stop it.

When it does hit something--a planet--it actually passes through the atmosphere, through the crust, to interact with the core of a target world. It disrupts the gravity of a planet, moving and heating up the gravitons, until the world explodes in what scientists call a pocket nova.

Hosnian Prime was destroyed by this shot of phantom energy, but it wasn't disrupted into nothingness. Instead, the planet was heated on the molecular level until it turned into a star.

So now, the Hosnian system is a binary star system.

Well, no, not a binary star system now. It's more of a senary (i.e. six suns) star system since the Starkiller beam split into 5 beams, each of which destroyed a single planet including Hosnian Prime. When you take into account the Hosnian system's original sun (assuming it had only a single sun originally and wasn't a binary or trinary system before Starkiller came calling), then that means six suns now (the original sun plus 5 planets now converted into suns).

I get you, but I'm just reporting what was in the book. It said "binary".

Could it be that the other worlds and moons were destroyed in the bigger event of Hosnian Prime transforming in a star?

ADF's best is not really good enough. Even with the gobbledygook that turns planets into stars, there is no gobbledygook for keeping them stars. These planets wouldn't have enough mass to stay stars, so they would just be destroyed (including Hosnian Prime). If this phantom energy added matter/mass to them to keep them stars, then that would throw off gravitational relationships and screw the orbits, so these new "stars" would either collide or be ejected into interstellar space away from each other, and thus wouldn't be a multiple star system of any numerical degree. ADF would have been better off just saying the planets were destroyed by the phantom energy and left it at that.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
ADF's best is not really good enough.


Ahhh, it's good enough for me. It's Space Opera, baby! I'm good with it.

Heck, ADF even had me believing that a pocket nova was a real thing until I just Googled it and got no results outside of Star Wars sites.

And, he doesn't say that they stay stars. Maybe they don't. Maybe they burn for a bit and then burn out.

I really like his "phantom energy" bit (if that's his...as it might have come from the script...who knows).



On a slightly different note, I was trying to find out if Starkiller base was a rouge planet, and if so, how it kept warm. Unless it doesn't keep warm when it's not in orbit around a star.

The book hasn't said, one way or the other, yet. But, the Starkiller beam has just now been fired, so maybe there's something on it.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You said the book said binary system. A system is something that exists on the long term. The sudden shifts in gravity that would occur by planets being instantly juiced up into stars would not likely be a "system" for long, no matter how many stars. Yes, it is space opera, and I am not even criticizing ADF's gobbledygook of turning into planets into stars, but rather only pointing out that the gobbledygook is incomplete if there is to be any sort of "system" remaining from this Hosnian transformation.


The Starkiller was kept warm by the sun that it drained for it's discharge that destroyed the Hosnian system and was being drained for it's second attack that was prevented. I know the official fluff states that the Starkiller is a hyperspace capable planet-starship, but it really wouldn't have to be since its weapon can fire anywhere in the galaxy they have coordinates for. Unless the sun that is drained will eventually be drained too much and they need to move on to a new fuel source. If it did move around through hyperspace to different stars, it really doesn't make sense for there to be a whole planetscape with a biosphere that would loose sunlight while at lightspeed and have to keep adapting to different stars. And does it's atmosphere travel through hyperspace with it?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
REY SKYWALKER

Remember the scene in the film, where Rey is drawn down into the catacombs beneath Maz's castle, to the chest that holds the Skywalker lightsaber?

The scene is basically the same, except reading (listening) to the things that happens to Rey when she is having vision has convinced me: I now believe that Rey is a Skywalker.

I'm not sure how. Maybe she's a clone. The Emperor was into clones, so it stands to reason that he might want to clone one of the strongest Force blood lines that have ever existed. There's a fan theory that Rey was cloned from Luke's hand that was chopped off on Bespin. They found the light saber, so why not the hand?

It would also be easy for me to believe that Palpatine took enough cells from Anakin to clone him--maybe while Anakin was unconscious after his duel with Kenobi.

But, I'm saying now, Rey is a Skywalker. That's what I think. And, I think it will be revealed in Episode IX.
Falconer wrote:
Re: Rey Skywalker, There’s also TFA Teaser #2, in which Luke powerfully restates his speech that “The Force is strong in my family…” Now, maybe he meant Kylo Ren; on the other hand, the latter is clearly not so strong in the Force as Rey is.

There’s also her narrative function in TFA as a “clone” of Luke.

There’s also the popular understanding of the Episodes as consisting the Skywalker Saga. (Did that come from Lucas himself?) With Luke gone, I’m not sure Episode IX can be considered part of the Skywalker Saga on the basis of Kylo Ren alone.

There’s also the scene in TLJ in which IIRC she wishes to see her parents, or where she came from, or something, and she just sees a long string of Reys. Clone of a clone? Maybe.

If Abrams meant her to be a Skywalker, how does he approach Rian Johnson’s reveal? Will audiences welcome it if he throws it out (as a simple untruth or a “certain point of view”) and goes back to something closer to his original ideas? I would. So much media today preaches that family is whatever/whoever you want it to be, which is a kind message, but it does not have as grand and sagalike of an impact as when you’re dealing with actual blood relations.
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I read an interview with Rian, and he refers to the "certain point of view" comment that Kenobi makes when confronted by Luke about Luke's father.

So, there is at least some thinking in that direction.

Also, if its true that Abrams wrote treatments for all three episodes, and Rian decided not to follow Abrams' ideas, we may see a return to Abram's ideas in Episode IX.

Anakin and Luke's blue lightsaber called out to Rey. Why would that be said if she weren't a Skywalker?

There's a really simple solution that would not at all involve any conflict between the suggestion that Rey is a Skywalker and that she is the daughter of nobody junk traders that sold her for drinking money. From 1980 to 1982, most everyone thought Vader had lied to Luke when he said he was his father. As we know it wasn't a lie. Kylo Ben is the Anakin Vader of this trilogy. If he was telling the truth, then how could Rey still be a Skywalker?

The simple answer is that Rey is a spiritual Skywalker, not genetic. In most concepts of reincarnation, souls are not limited to reincarnating within their own family line. Anakin Skywalker could be reborn as anyone with any parents, even filthy junk traders on a desert planet. Even as someone of a different gender than the prior incarnation.

That could be Abram's original concept that Rian could have advanced while still leaving the final revelation for Episode IX. There are a lot of parallels of Rey with Anakin. Rey and Anakin are Force prodigies. Rey may have been enslaved as a child, and even after earning her freedom she still worked for a parts dealer on a desert planet. Rey's costume in TFA even seems inspired by little Ani's in TPM. In Rey's vision of the Cloud City hallway, Rey's apparent position is exactly the position Vader was in the TESB shot (as if she is seeing it from Vader's view, not Luke's view even though Luke had th blue lightsaber at that time). In TLJ Rey gets wounded in the same exact spot on her right shoulder that Vader did by the only time Luke hit him in the Cloud City duel. Before that in her dark vision, the line of Reys may represent each incarnation - The time delay thing could represent the flowing of time, how one incarnation subsequently follows the next. But it seemed to go around in a circle which can represent a cycle, and reincarnation is referred to as a cycle of life and death. But Rey said it didn't go on forever, that it was leading somewhere. Reincarnation often deals with an eventual end to the cycle (sometimes with the soul working towards that end as a goal). JJ Abrams said that Episode IX will tie the entire Skywalker Saga, all the prior episodes, together.

I get that a lot of fans have real world personal aversions to alien concepts like reincarnation, but this is fiction and I honestly don't know why so many fans quickly pooh-pooh this idea without any consideration at all. This is Star Wars which has all kinds of wacky stuff like moving rocks with your mind and Force ghosts. In Star Wars, when life forms die their specific individual personal Force identity disintegrates and transforms back into the general universal Force, so there is no afterlife for most. It requires a rare Force power to fight against that natural process and maintain the soul's identity beyond death of the physical body. Maybe that is only temporary and eventually the Force ghost identity will dissipate. Maybe the only way to continue on as a Force identity is for the soul to be reborn into a new physical body. Maybe the Chosen One is the only one who can do that in Star Wars. Maybe the Chosen One is the soul of the first Jedi who returns whenever needed to fight the dark side. Maybe the Chosen One is the last Jedi who will bring balance to the Force by defeating the Dark Side once and for all. Messiahs and reincarnation are religious concepts, and Star Wars is mythology.

Maybe because fans are so resistant to this possibility is why they would do it, to surprise you. A lot of people think Rey is Luke's daughter, or even a cross-gendered clone offspring (which seems a lot wackier to me than reincarnation). Star Wars fans are so programed by these prior paternal revelations: Vader is Luke's father, Vader is Leia's father, Han Solo is Kylo Ben's father. Even though this trilogy is extremely derivative of the prior films, don't you think they will try to do some left turn with a big reveal? Rey being the reincarnation of Anakin seems so unexpected by most fans that it just might be true.

Quote:
REY: No, I am your grandfather.
REN: No. That's not true. That's impossible! It can't be you! I'm Vader! Me! MEEE! NOOOOOOOOOO!

That quote block is just for fun, but you get the idea.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t think Abrams is a fan of the Prequels, so I just don’t think his story will hinge on a Prequels concept (the Chosen One).
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
You said the book said binary system.


I believe that's what it said, yes. But, remember, that I'm going by memory. I heard it in the car on the way to work. Parked. Did my day at work. Got back in the car and drove to pick up dinner. Then posted.

So, my memory may not be exact, but that was what I think it said.

If I had the actual book in front of me, I'd look it up for you.





Quote:
The Starkiller was kept warm by the sun that it drained for it's discharge that destroyed the Hosnian system and was being drained for it's second attack that was prevented.


I was under the impression that the weapon sucked the star cold when it was fired. It uses up Stars as ammo.

If so, the planet would have to move to another system to fire again.


Quote:
If it did move around through hyperspace to different stars, it really doesn't make sense for there to be a whole planetscape with a biosphere that would loose sunlight while at lightspeed and have to keep adapting to different stars. And does it's atmosphere travel through hyperspace with it?


All questions I had.

A lot of Star Wars is impossible, fantasy tech. We know that there's a shield around the planet. Maybe the base is self contained, and when not around a star, the planet does get cold. There is all that ice and snow out there. At these times, the base is sealed off. Nobody goes outside. Then, when the base orbits a new star, it warms up a bit so that people can go out side.

Just thinking out loud, here. I don't really know the official stance on this.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE: The Unkar Plutt scene that I mention above...

Someone on another forum posted this link. It's an interview with Simon Pegg. Early in the interview, Simon talks about the scene I mention above.

https://www.gq.com/story/simon-pegg-star-wars-extra
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a point to re-listen to the scene this morning, and it does say that what was left behind after the beam of phantom energy hit was a Binary star system, devoid of life. It's not clear whether ADF intends just the planet of Hosnian Prime to be the star or the entire planetary system as a whole.





Interesting Stuff...

The Reistance finds out about the destruction of Hosnian Prime through Leia--she feels it through the Force. This prompts Leia to send out a scout to figure out how that was accomplished--and, it looks like the scout will find Starkiller base and report back. I think the pilot is going to be Snap Wexley.



The streaks of the Starkiller weapon are not seen by those in normal space as shown in the film. On Takodana, a bright new star is seen in the sky (which is still crazy because it would take years for the light to reach Takodana), and speculation is that a star went nova. Chewie pulls a device out of his satchel, and Han uses it to study the star. The device--I forget the name--is linked to the Falcon's Astrogation computer. He figures it out that there's a problem in the Hosnian system.



And, I forgot this from before....

When Solo blasted off his old ship, the Eravana, he tore the heck out of the landing bay. The ship was holed, parts open to space. Members of the Guavian Death Gang and Kanjiklub were killed.

That scene in the film where the criminal is calling the First Order and reporting the sighting of BB-8 is different in the book as the guy was blown back and nearly killed. The ships in the bay are all destroyed. The Eravana is severely damaged. And, there are rathtars running around killing everything in sight.

His call is more of a Mayday. "To anyone listening..." type of thing. But, he does mention BB-8.



Tracking

OK, according to the book...to sum up...

Han and Chewie find the Falcon because there's a beacon on the ship that works when the ship is operated. When Rey and Finn fired her up and left Jakku, Han and Chewie followed the signal.



Kanjiklub and the Guavian Death Gang meet in a bar somewhere under truce, and the overhear C-3P0 speak of the Falcon on Jakku. That's how the two criminal organizations get to Jakku, but this is from a Star Wars comic, not the novelization.



Unkar Plutt follows the Falcon to Takodana using an old, forgotten Imperial tracker that is fixed to the Falcon. In the Simon Pegg interview linked above, this tracker is the same one that Darth Vader had installed on the ship during it's time on the Death Star in A New Hope. It's hard to believe that tracker has been on the ship all those years, but if it doesn't work automatically--if it only works if you have a code--then I can (just barely) swallow it.



The First Order finds out about BB-8 being on the Falcon from the criminal that survived Han Solo's escape. See above. The First Order finds out about BB-8 making it to Takodana by one of the spacers calling it in, just as is shown in the film.



The Resistance finds out about BB-8 through their droid spy network. A droid on Takodana calls it in, but the scene is different from that in the film.

The Resistance finds out about Hosnian Prime going boom from Leia. She feels it in the Force, and then sends out a scout to see what happened.



Those on Takodana notice a new star in the sky, thinking a star must have gone nova. But, it is Han and Chewie that use a device and find out that something huge and terrible has happened in the Hosnian system.






Oh, and this...

When Rey sees Kylo Ren for the first time on Takodana, she realizes that she has seen him before...in her dreams (or nightmares).
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I was under the impression that the weapon sucked the star cold when it was fired. It uses up Stars as ammo.

If so, the planet would have to move to another system to fire again.

I read up on it. The Starkiller was designed to use up stars and then move on to new ones, but it wasn't only one shot per star. So it could fire multiple shots using a single star, and then when it was sucked dry they could move on to another star. So the planet base didn't travel in the film because the star it was draining in the final battle was the same star that had fueled the destruction of the Hosnian system. And that destruction of the Starkiller planet also turned it into a star, making that unnamed system into a "binary system" as well.

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Unkar Plutt follows the Falcon to Takodana using an old, forgotten Imperial tracker that is fixed to the Falcon. In the Simon Pegg interview linked above, this tracker is the same one that Darth Vader had installed on the ship during it's time on the Death Star in A New Hope. It's hard to believe that tracker has been on the ship all those years, but if it doesn't work automatically--if it only works if you have a code--then I can (just barely) swallow it.

But if it was the same tracker that Vader had put on the Falcon in ANH (which was used to successfully track them to the Yavin system), then wouldn't that mean that the Empire could have tracked the Falcon all throughout the entire civil war? The only thing I can think of that makes sense is that Han and Chewie could deactivate and reactivate the beacon but not remove it, which would then explain why it was still there when Unkar Plutt had the ship but never used it all those years.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
But if it was the same tracker that Vader had put on the Falcon in ANH (which was used to successfully track them to the Yavin system), then wouldn't that mean that the Empire could have tracked the Falcon all throughout the entire civil war?


I hear ya. And, I said that I could barely swallow it. It's what Pegg said in the interview.

Just thinking here....it could be, as I said above, that the tracker only works when you have the code. If you don't have the code, then you don't know that it is there.

Yes, the Empire put it on the Falcon, but that was Vader...or Vader's men, more precisely. While Vader was in his TIE fighter, maybe the code guys got blown up when the Death Star went up.

So, the tracker was still there with nobody listening.

Just a guess.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Starkiller weapon operates on unbelievable technology. The Resistance people are stymied. Finn tells them that the weapon doesn't move through what they all know of as normal hyperspace. It moves through a new dimension, what the First Order calls "sub-hyperspace" or "sub-space". Evidently, this new dimension is the reason the beam can be delivered across stellar distances so fast. Finn makes a comment along those lines.



D6 Note: Otherspace, anywone?
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