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The Force Hurts!
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I could see that. In this case, though, that does not account for the rain on Kylo's hand. So it would have to be two separate powers.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also a couple of other options.

* Perhaps one can sacrifice health to power Force rolls. Perhaps Luke, in order to even make the roll, took a "wounded" for a +5D bonus, then went to "incapacitated" for another +5D bonus... and so on.

* Luke's doppelganger wasn't really interacted with by the blasts from the walkers. The doppelganger was covered up by the sand and other blast debris kicked up. Therefore, the fight with Kylo Ren was the first instance where a hostile sentient was up close and personal with the doppelganger. I remember a rule from (A)D&D which gave a second saving throw when someone actually interacted with an illusion.

And for the water on Kylo's hand? Well, I thought of it as something akin to stigmata, or a consequence of the Force interaction - not actual water transported from the actual place.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
There's also a couple of other options.

* Perhaps one can sacrifice health to power Force rolls. Perhaps Luke, in order to even make the roll, took a "wounded" for a +5D bonus, then went to "incapacitated" for another +5D bonus... and so on.

* Luke's doppelganger wasn't really interacted with by the blasts from the walkers. The doppelganger was covered up by the sand and other blast debris kicked up. Therefore, the fight with Kylo Ren was the first instance where a hostile sentient was up close and personal with the doppelganger. I remember a rule from (A)D&D which gave a second saving throw when someone actually interacted with an illusion.

And for the water on Kylo's hand? Well, I thought of it as something akin to stigmata, or a consequence of the Force interaction - not actual water transported from the actual place.


I like the stigmata thing there, never thought of that.

As seeing luke die nd to translate into the game, I dare say fatigue.....
I am not quite sure if you can die from fatigue in the game, how those mechanics work.
But you can die from fatigue, I would say this is what Luke did, though controlled, dying from fatigue.

Naturally he becomes a casper later on
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe tie it to the skill roll, which is modified by proximity, at least. Force Doppelganger lasts for x amount of time. If the user refuses to drop the power at that moment (which may bow the illusion on the other end--can't end in the middle of a conversation without being detected), then he risks damage.

Damage builds by 1D for ever extra time unit (combat round, minute, something like that). When the power is finally dropped in the extra innings like this, damage that has accumulated is rolled normally.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to Luke dying doing the Projection Thingie, I am not so sure that is what killed him.
I believe the jedi, at some level of knowledge can choose to become with the force, controlled and on purpose.

I don't think this is out merit, if we look at the duel between Vader and Obi Wan, then Ben in ANH, we see Obi Wan doing exactly that.

That is how he can help, train and guide Luke.

Luke seemingly taking the same role to Rey, becoming a force ghost on purpose in order to better aid her and the cause.

If you kill me I'll become more powerful than you can imagine......something like that.

So could this be only a super long range projection and Luke's death being on purpose, becoming a ghost to best aid
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I believe the jedi, at some level of knowledge can choose to become with the force, controlled and on purpose.


My estimation is that those who know how to do it (evidently, the Sith don't know--I think Luke helped Vader make the transition) can only do it at death.

Obi-wan did it when Vader killed him. Anakin did it when he died from the Palpatine's Force electricity. Yoda did it when he died.

In fact, it's probably against the Light Side to end a life prematurely.

So, I think Luke made the transition when he was dying.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
I believe the jedi, at some level of knowledge can choose to become with the force, controlled and on purpose.


My estimation is that those who know how to do it (evidently, the Sith don't know--I think Luke helped Vader make the transition) can only do it at death.

Obi-wan did it when Vader killed him. Anakin did it when he died from the Palpatine's Force electricity. Yoda did it when he died.

In fact, it's probably against the Light Side to end a life prematurely.

So, I think Luke made the transition when he was dying.



Great points. Indeed it seems it happens at death, or slightly before.
I am not sure it would be ending a life as much as going from existence to another, both being "alive" as in sentient.
If we look to ROTS we see the jedi die and be corpses, granted they had not learned what Qui Gon had, becoming a ghost, but they still pass on.

I actually suspect the sentient, and as we have seen with being able to interact physically in the "real" world, ghost is more linked to the "dark side" than to the light side, given what such a power can make you into a force ghost killing people.

Also if they can interact, then it is not too far to think they can thus be harmed.

What I suspect, is that becoming a force ghost is a very advanced form of projection, one that Luke may have learned on his many quests of knowledge to master to the point that he can enter the stage, not dying as we know it, but transcending into another sentient and very much living energy.

It seems these force ghosts, for the purpose to teach and guide, even harm if evil, have given up their place in the afterlife, netherworld is it, where the force users go when they die.
It is a esoteric, but to me it seems the force it becoming more and more esoteric in its portrayals on screen and in books/comics.

This is why I think it could be possible that Luke is not dead, he simply chose to become a different form of life.

This being said, most likely everyone else is right, Luke dies from exhaustion OR as hinted here on the forum, from being somewhat wounded as he was able to interact physically, or seemingly so
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, with how he seemed to slump, and fall off that rock, then looked haggered as he crawled back on it, before 'dying and fading into nothingness', i DO feel he died.. BUT i like the idea of he gave up his life to power his projection, KNOWING it would kill him, so he could become one with the force.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole "Force using exhausting the death" concept was introduced in d20 by WotC. Of course main idea was to make sure that all characters are balanced. But it caused many difficulties to explain (in game mechanic) terms all the things Jedi heroes did. And it did not feel right with the movies. Luke being pushed by Yoda in training could easily die, really.

But when I think of LotJ scene, and this dialogue:
- Luke is gone.
- I felt it.
- But it wasn't sadness nor pain. It was...peace and purpose.

I see it as a destiny completed for a Jedi and becoming one with the Force of one's free choice. It's not a death by mental exhaustion.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
There's also a couple of other options.

* Perhaps one can sacrifice health to power Force rolls. Perhaps Luke, in order to even make the roll, took a "wounded" for a +5D bonus, then went to "incapacitated" for another +5D bonus... and so on.



that would be my pick for a game mechanic to cover it.

Digging down in one's own connection to the force to such a degree that it can snuff out your life.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sever force.

Now it does not directly hurt, but used and succeeded against an enemy force user, rendering him mundane permanently doe "hurt" and will help take down any force user more easily.

Now the power is rare and all, but still hehe.

Picture the old fart's face if Luke had tossed his saber to the floor and used and succeeded in sever force.......hehehe

that would make for a ...gooooood....gooob.......baaaaaaaadddd
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
Zarn wrote:
There's also a couple of other options.

* Perhaps one can sacrifice health to power Force rolls. Perhaps Luke, in order to even make the roll, took a "wounded" for a +5D bonus, then went to "incapacitated" for another +5D bonus... and so on.



that would be my pick for a game mechanic to cover it.

Digging down in one's own connection to the force to such a degree that it can snuff out your life.


So each wound level taken gives what, +3d to a force roll for that round?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wound = Force Point.

Hey, look, Sith just invented blood magic.

(On reflection, I'd go with wound = +1D, which is applied before the doubling of a force point)
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, if we are going to use a mechanic for converting life energy into force powers, couldn't it be looked at as sort of a reverse of "transfer force" power? Just get apply a force point for each wound taken, letting you do all kinds of crazy things, but if you do three of them in rapid succession.. well..
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argentsaber wrote:
Honestly, if we are going to use a mechanic for converting life energy into force powers, couldn't it be looked at as sort of a reverse of "transfer force" power? Just get apply a force point for each wound taken, letting you do all kinds of crazy things, but if you do three of them in rapid succession.. well..


I'd also put in something about "Wounds taken to power the force in this manner, cannot be healed with medpacks, or accelerate healing. They can only be healed via natural healing"..
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