Dark Side Power Points... O_o

[Endwyn]

(Back to question)

I would look at the power and make a judgement call on whether the reason it had been written as "auto-dark side" was because the power calls on the dark side or if the power is viewed as not having acceptable light side uses, hence being evil. Then if the power uses the dark side, yes - I would always give out DSP's. Now, if it was the other case I would then look at the situation.

[Kehlin Yew]

What if it was a skill like Morichro?

[Argamoth]

That would depend on the Jedi's motive.

[Kehlin Yew]

uhh.... to kill >_> thats what the question is about

[Argamoth]

Just to kill someone? Then he would get a dark side point.

[Kehlin Yew]

Have you read the question? you have to read it to know what im talking about

[Argamoth]

It really depends on the situation. If the jedi used a fore power to *kill* the sith, he would get a DSP. If he used a force power to indirectly kill the sith, like pushing him over the edje of a pit, probably no DSP.

[Kehlin Yew]

So you would let one jedi die, or go darkside, and let another sith come to power?

i love these comments

[Endwyn]

I would never let a PC have the power Morichro. As a GM you control what a PC has access to, and while preventing a PC from getting desired power can sometimes be railroading - this is definatly one occasion when the GM has every right to keep a PC away from something.

And to answer your question - IF they did have the power in one of my games I would give out a dark side point for using the power any time they exhausted all another alternatives to the situation. Taking someone's life through the force directly should not be taken lightly. While powers like Lightsaber combat make a jedi extremely deadly they are not using the force directly to take a life. Some might not see a big distinction between direct and indirect use of the force when taking lives, but there is a signifigant difference.

So to answer the Morichro question, I wouldn't let my players have it under normal circumstances. If they did get it under special circumstances, I wouldn't expect to see them to use it more that a couple time a year (Real time) if even that much. If they used the power when other alternatives were available, yes -DSP. If they taught the power to another who abused it, I would give them a DSP unless they were both responsible with selection of the student and fast to respond and prevent the student from futher abusing the power. (Both things the PC is fully capable of doing.)

And yes, if a Jedi uses dark side powers against a Sith, even to defeat him, even if the Sith is capable of killing an entire system; the Jedi gets a DSP. The ends DO NOT justify the means. The Jedi should be fully capable of using other tools to resolve the situation. If the jedi uses the dark side to destroy the sith he has in fact taken one step closer to his own darkness.

[Ars_Fortuna]

Endwyn, I'd have to disagree with you in part. That still leaves a very big factor out: intention/current emotional state.

I look at it this way, there are some powers which flat out call upon the dark side's power. In my games these are things like Force Lightning, Injure/Kill, etc. They quite specifically work because the character is using the Dark Side of the Force. So they get a Dark Side Point automatically.

Then there are other methods. Powers that aren't written specifically to kill, but could be used to do the job. This is where I differ from your view. It is not whether the Force is being used directly/indirectly to kill, a person dies regardless, with all of the moral implications that produces. What is important is the state of mind and intention of the Jedi doing the killing. If the Jedi's heart is filled with anger, hate, McDonalds, or other facets of the Dark Side, he should get a Dark Side Point. If the Jedi is at peace and acting in accordance to the will of the Force, no Dark Side Point. I see no reason why a Jedi Padawan slaughtering Tusken Raiders should be excused the Dark Side Point just because he isn't using the Force directly to attack.

Likewise, a Jedi using the force directly to attack won't require the application of a Dark Side Point (excluding the blatantly Dark Side Powers). Once again, the Jedi's reasons and state of mind are very important here. This is not to say that I would allow Jedi to run around killing everything with the Force and not assign any Dark Side Points. Very often, when a Jedi is capable of killing someone with the Force (directly or indirectly - including lightsaber use), they are also capable of resolving the situation in a less violent manner. Failure to examine those options will lead to Dark Side Points.

To Kehlin Yew, of course you should let a Jedi go Sith while trying to stop evil. That is a core theme in both the original and prequel trilogies. Why do you think that Palpatine and Vader kept telling Luke to use his anger? Same reason that Palpatine and Dooku were taunting Anakin for. To turn a Jedi away from the light so that they have another walking in the Darkness. "Twice the pride, twice the fall." I doubt that Dooku was talking about death there, instead, he was goading Anakin so that he would fall into darkness. If you want more examples, look at the Expanded Universe. Most of the Sith Wars, which sometime ended in the Sith's favor, were sparked by a lone Jedi falling to the influence of Sith spectres.
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Found furry stowaway
Named stowaway Fluffy
He likes cuddling and eating
He eats a LOT
He's getting big!
He needs a lot of attention
Assigned crewer to pet him
He's attacking the crew
Stop, Fluffy, stop!
I'm going to miss him

[garhkal]

Just a quesiton of my own. What is this 'mocherio'???
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[KageRyu]

[Endwyn]

I see exactly what Ars_Fortuna is saying about direct/indirect. When it comes down to it what's the difference between a PC using TK to pull a brick ceiling in on someone's head to kill them (indirect) vs. using Morichro to just kill him (direct)? The only difference is intention and situation, both roads lead to death. Or look at lightsaber combat vs. direct force attack. They both have the same end too - death. I defiantly agree that it is important that you never take a life unless it is the only available option. I used to see the prequels as a conflict with the originals; but I see it as a continuous story now. The Jedi were headed down a dark road, lost in a stagnancy they created and held themselves in to prevent another Sith war caused by a defecting Jedi. The Council supported the Senate, despite it's failings. If you look at the two organizations you can see the similarities of how they both became strangled in their own red tape.

Palp emerges and uses the stranglehold to get the Senators tired of inaction to propose changes that remove steps in the process and make more immediate actions available. Can you imagine having to have countless systems agree, or reach majority vote on every military action before it's taken? Neither could the senate - they finally agreed on something. The Jedi meanwhile continued to be stuck and not adapt their ways to the new times; after all - the old ways had seen them through everything in the past.

You spoke of the Mace vs. Palp, and that fight goes a lot deeper. Mace had his world view shattered by the revelation that the Senate was beyond redemption and controlled by a sith. Further that the Sith had manipulated the Jedi and put the entire organization in a bad place. By making the Jedi generals they were put in a position where they had to walk a much more dangerous line and were exposed daily to the possibility of dying. Palp had them right where he wanted them, either dying or falling - only the strongest and most pure could withstand the battles. And even those would become so accustomed to seeing death daily that its importance would fade away and seem "normal". The Jedi had been undone from their own allegiances, destroyed by the government they swore to uphold and protect. Mace saw the manipulation and corruption and knew justice would not be served to Palp and peace could never come to the galaxy again until he was dead. Had he been calm and not so emotional about this decision he would have been fine w/ the force. But for all the reasons above it was personal. He put Anakin in an even worse position; Anakin knew killing Palp was wrong personally knew the cost of that darkness (from Dooku). Anakin would have to walk in the darkness if he stood by and allowed Mace to strike Palp down in the state he was. If he stopped Mace he would be defying a superior Jedi, but could prevent them both from walking the dark path. So he acted. Palp used that conundrum against him, pushing him closer to the dark side as even Anakin was unable to separate his emotions from his actions as he prevented Mace from killing. Palp knew Anakin's prior experience would run deep and be hard to suppress.

When you flash forward to the original trilogy, is it any wonder after all that the two remaining Jedi are beyond careful with how and what Luke uses the force for? Had you lived through the prequels wouldn't you handle your "last hopes" with kid gloves to prevent them from falling to the dark side before they save the galaxy from the Sith?

Anyways, that's my perspective.


Morichro is a power from the comics that was a way to kill someone using the force without drawing upon any of the dark side.

[Allst Beamem]

This is pasted right off the WOTC web sight......

Morichro
You can slow the life functions of another being, placing it in a trancelike state or possibly killing it. You can also turn the power's effects inward to extend a Force trance for months.

Prerequisites: Alter, Control, Force-Sensitive, Force-user level 9th, Wisdom 15, Heal Another 9 ranks, Heal Self 9 ranks, no more than 2 Dark Side Points.

Benefit: The target of Morichro makes a Will saving throw. The DC depends on the level of the Force-user.

Force-User's Level Target's Save DC
9th-10th 15
11th-16th 20
17th-20th 25

If the save succeeds, the target is exhausted for the duration of the encounter. After the encounter, the target is fatigued until he rests for 8 hours. (See Chapter Eight of the Star Wars Roleplaying Game for the effects of exhaustion and fatigue.)
If the save fails, Morichro renders the target unconscious, as though the target had entered a Force trance (see the Control feat in Chapter Five of the Star Wars Roleplaying Game). This state of unconsciousness lasts until the target takes wound damage or is targeted by a Force skill or feat (including another use of Morichro). The power has no other time limit. The target could remain unconscious indefinitely. If left untended, the target could die of dehydration or starvation. Should the target die (for any reason) while under the effects of Morichro, the Force-user who initiated the Morichro gains 1 Dark Side Point.

If the target fails the save by 10 or more, the target perishes immediately, and the user gains 1 Dark Side Point. The target can expend 1 Force Point to automatically succeed at the save, but still suffers the exhaustion and fatigue effects mentioned above.

When used against another living being, Morichro has a range of 10 meters. Using this feat requires a full-round action and incurs an attack of opportunity. It costs 16 vitality points to initiate.

Special: A Force-user can turn Morichro upon herself to enter a kind of suspended animation. This works exactly like a Force trance, except that the user can go without food, water, and even air for an extended period. It does not allow the user to survive the effects of vacuum. The user can exist in this state for one month per point of Wisdom before hunger, thirst, and lack of breathable atmosphere begin to affect her. Unlike its ability to place another being in a Force trance, this application of Morichro allows the Force-user to stipulate the duration of the trance. She may even choose a specific stimulus to rouse her from the trance. If the user takes wound damage, or if a Force power targets her, she awakens.

Because its effects can be lethal, the Jedi Council prohibits the use of Morichro during the latter part of the Old Republic era and throughout the Rise of the Empire era. Morichro was available to all who wished to learn it until about five thousand years before the Battle of Yavin. A thousand years before the Battle of Yavin, the Jedi Council forbade its teaching and entrusted the technique to a select few Jedi Masters. Learning Morichro during this period could be the basis of an entire adventure, requiring the student to either gain permission from the Jedi Council or seek out the knowledge without the Council's blessing. After the Jedi Purge, the technique is all but lost, though it might be found on extremely rare (and difficult to find) Jedi holocrons.

[Kehlin Yew]

Morichro
if you just go to www.Dictionary.com i think it says something like, softening the internal organs, and bones to a liquid state.

So it just like, liquifys them...