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Are there any WEG stats of ships without shields?
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Are there any WEG stats of ships without shields? Reply with quote

As part of my research for Oliver Queen's Rogue One fanbook, I'm trying to find published WEG stats of ships without shields. I'm researching the U-wing and we'r including stats for the civilian version of the U-wing, also known as the BT-45D. According to the RO Visual Guide, the write-up says that "the BT-45D has been "stripped of all its offensive and defensive [emphasis mine] applications as well as its hyperdrive". Well, if its defensive capabilities have been removed, that must by definition mean that the BT-45D has no shields. (Yes, I find that odd that anyone would manufacture a starship with no defenses at all, but that's the only logical inference from this text. "Stripped of all defensive capabilities" can't mean anything else.)

So here's the big question: Does anyone in the Rancor Pit know of any official WEG-statted starship that has no shields?

I've already found an example of a ship without a hyperdrive/navcomp; that's the System Patrol Craft found in the Imperial Sourcebook on page 51. According to that precedent, ships without hyperdrives simply delete the entire stats lines for their Hyperdrive Multiplier, Hyperdrive Backup and Nav Comp lines. I'm just trying to double-check if deleting the Shields line in the BT-45D stats is the proper way to go, as opposed to just writing "Shields: None" or "Shields: No".
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TIE Fighters are the most prominent example, and there are plenty of low-end space transports that lack shields.

I'd take the Rogue One Visual Guide with a grain of salt, though. These are the same kooks who made the MC75 a converted building, and stripping out the hyperdrive really makes no sense.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
TIE Fighters are the most prominent example, and there are plenty of low-end space transports that lack shields.

I'd take the Rogue One Visual Guide with a grain of salt, though. These are the same kooks who made the MC75 a converted building, and stripping out the hyperdrive really makes no sense.


Gawds, I'm a dumbass, I just remembered that TIEs have no shields.

But yeah, I'm still a bit miffed about that whole "converted building-to-starship" thing myself, so you're quite right about taking the RO Visual Guide with a grain of salt.

As for stripping the hyperdrive from the BT-45D, the Visual Guide justifies it (or attempts to) by saying that it's the civilian version of the U-wing that are sold standard without the hyperdrive. But then the question then becomes: what function is the BT-45D supposed to serve if it has no weapons, no shields and no hyperdrive? It can't fight, can't defend itself and can't independently leave the star system it's in. Is it nothing more than a glorified, local system taxi?

Then again, this is an Incom design that was made just before Incom got nationalized by the Empire and got a very short production run as a result. Maybe the Empire didn't want more U-wings of the military version getting to the Alliance but was ok with selling the civilian version if it would make a bit of money back?

As for the low-end space transports, can you give me examples and which books I might find them? I'll have to take a look at Stock Ships as my first likely endeavor, but could you name other sources?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pirates & Privateers is a good official source. Anywhere from 25-33% of the ships listed in the Ships chapter don't have shields.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Pirates & Privateers is a good official source. Anywhere from 25-33% of the ships listed in the Ships chapter don't have shields.


Man, my brain must have turned to mush today. That should have occurred to me as well. But thank you for answering my question, CRM.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a couple of stock freighters that have high hull, no shields.

Z10 Seeker: Hull 3D, No Shields. (Stock Ships)
Incom X-23 StarWorker: Hull 3D, No Shields (Pirates and Privateers)
X-26 Starhaul: Hull 3D, No Shields (Pirates and Privateers)
Cuirilla-Raye Xylines-class Spacetug: Hull 3D, No Shields (Pirates and Privateers).
YT-1300: Hull 4D, No Shields (Core book).

That was just after a quick search.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
As for stripping the hyperdrive from the BT-45D, the Visual Guide justifies it (or attempts to) by saying that it's the civilian version of the U-wing that are sold standard without the hyperdrive. But then the question then becomes: what function is the BT-45D supposed to serve if it has no weapons, no shields and no hyperdrive? It can't fight, can't defend itself and can't independently leave the star system it's in. Is it nothing more than a glorified, local system taxi?

Then again, this is an Incom design that was made just before Incom got nationalized by the Empire and got a very short production run as a result. Maybe the Empire didn't want more U-wings of the military version getting to the Alliance but was ok with selling the civilian version if it would make a bit of money back?

Okay, but look at the sorts of armed ships that are allowed for civilian use in the RAW. Even the bargain basement Level 0 stock space transport most PC groups start with (the stock YT-1300) has 1D in Shields and a Laser Cannon.

Just because the current story group has taken a collective dump on the Legends EU - all while lying through their teeth about how much love and respect they have for it - does not and should not make their pronouncements holy writ.
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Just because the current story group has taken a collective dump on the Legends EU - all while lying through their teeth about how much love and respect they have for it - does not and should not make their pronouncements holy writ.

I do not disagree, but Legends EU isn't holy writ either. Kevin J. Anderson, anyone? Remember, the Ewok cartoons and TV movies are canon in the EU. So far to my knowledge, the current canon hasn't has any soap that makes you invisible and transformations from near-human into bird and back with magic rings. Even the horrible Holiday Special is canon in the EU. And The Clone Wars cartoon, which took a huge dump on the films, is unfortunately canon in both universes.

I think all rational Star Wars fans will agree that both canons have issues. When fans say things like one universe's publishing is taking a dump on the other, it makes people thing they are blind to all the poodoo in the other. There is no need for us to take a side on which universe is better. Neither universe is a good as my Star Wars universe. I'm pretty sure your SWU is better than both of those too.
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me do a look through the complete starships guide and get back with a full list.. Hazarding a guess, i'd say there's a good dozen to two dozen canon examples.
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I think all rational Star Wars fans will agree that both canons have issues. When fans say things like one universe's publishing is taking a dump on the other, it makes people thing they are blind to all the poodoo in the other. There is no need for us to take a side on which universe is better. Neither universe is a good as my Star Wars universe. I'm pretty sure your SWU is better than both of those too.

I'm not saying the Legends EU was perfect, by any stretch of the imagination. However, WEG made a decent effort at providing verisimilitude, providing plausible explanations for a lot of the implausible things we saw in the rest of the EU. That set a standard that the new EU could have built upon. Instead, it seems more that they are merely paying lip-service to the past, while strip-mining it for ideas that are then applied in a "creative process" that runs rough-shod over the established framework of the past, for no readily apparent reason. I'd honestly have more respect for the new story group if they just came out and said that they didn't have any particular regard from the past, although they intended to use it for "new material."
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Let me do a look through the complete starships guide and get back with a full list.. Hazarding a guess, I'd say there's a good dozen to two dozen canon examples.


Thank you for that, garhkal. I'm basically trying to establish a pattern of whether WEG/D6 stats say that a shieldless ship has a line saying "Shields: No" or something similar as opposed to just not having a Shield stat at all. I expect the latter is far more common, but if you can confirm this as you compile your list, so much the better.
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
I'm basically trying to establish a pattern of whether WEG/D6 stats say that a shieldless ship has a line saying "Shields: No" or something similar as opposed to just not having a Shield stat at all. I expect the latter is far more common, but if you can confirm this as you compile your list, so much the better.

What have you looked at? I just happened to have the Trilogy Sourcebook (Oct 97) handy, and the TIE/ln, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor, and TIE Shuttle all have no Shield stats at all. It goes strait from Hull to Sensors. All the rest of the ships in the book (including TIE Advanced) have a Shield in between. How big a sample size do you want to establish this pattern?
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If everyone who posts is willing, I suppose I'd like as big a pattern as possible until I see an exception. But judging from the posts already made, it seems like I already have my answer: Ships without shields don't have a Shields stat.

It seems like I already have my sample size, but if people want to keep posting examples of ships without shields, I won't mind. If anyone finds a ship without shields that has a "Shields: No" or Shields: None" stat (or something similar) instead of it being deleted entirely, I'd be curious to see it.

I expect the pattern has already been established, though.
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK from The starship stats, revised and expanded (by Thiago S Aranha) i see
Starfighters
GENERAL
Sith Fighter – None
Sith Starfighter – None
Drake Starfighter – Yes (2d)
Cinnagar Interceptor – Yes (2d+2 with 2d backup)
Star Sabre – Yes (2d+1)
Stinger – Yes (2d)
C-73 Tracker – None
Dagger – None
Sigil Courier – Yes (1d)
Dianoga – Yes (1d)
Gun Tug – Yes (1d)
Cloakshape Fighter – None
Whitecloak Fighter – yes (0d+2)
Mercenary Fighter – Yes (1d+1 with 2d of back ups)
Phoenix Hawk Light Pinnace – Yes (2d)
TL-118 StarHammer – Yes (2d)
Naboo Police Cruiser – Yes (1d+1)
N-1 Royal Starfighter – Yes (1d)
G-1 Starfighter – Yes (1d+1)
Naboo Bomber – Yes (1d+1)
Freefall Bomber – Yes (1d)
Jedi Starfighter – Yes (1d)
Jedi Interceptor – None
V-19 Torrent – Yes (1d+1)
P-38 – Yes (1d+2)
T-36 Skyfighter – None (which is strange as it has ONLy 1d+1 hull)
Toscan 8-Q – None
Zebra – None
TIE-Y Ugly – None
Patrol StarSpeeder – None
PTR-3 Vedette – Yes (0d+2)
Hornet Interceptor – Yes (2d+2)
Authority IRD – No
Authority IRD-A – No
Pinook Fighter – Yes (1d)
Charon Starfighter – Yes (1d)
Z-95 Mark I Headhunter – Yes (1d)
Z-95 Headunter – Yes (1d)
Z-95XT Trainer - Yes (1d+2)
Gauntlet – Yes (1d)
Y-Wing – Yes (1d+2)
Y-TIE Ugly – Yes (1d+2)
Pursuer Enforcement Ship – Yes (1d)
Corsair Cruiser – Yes (1d)
StarViper – Yes (1d forward, 4d rear)
Vanguard Heavy Assault Gunship – Yes (2d)
Dagger-D Police Fighter – Yes (1d)
Qektoth Confederation Fighter – Yes (1d)
M3-A Scyk – Yes (1d)
G1-M4-C Dunelizard – Yes (1d)
M12 Kimogila – Yes (2d)
X-TIE Ugly – Yes (1d)
“Clutch” Ugly – Yes (1d+2)
Manta Assault Starfighter – Yes (2d+1)
R-41 Starchaser – Yes (2d+1)
Razor Fighter – Yes (1d)
Miy’til Fighter – Yes (1d+1)
Miy’til Assault Bomber – Yes (2d)
Planetary Fighter – Yes (2d)
Supa Fighter – Yes (1d+2)
Preybird Fighter – Yes (1d)
Ssi-ruuvi Battle Droid – Yes (1d+2)
Corellian B-Wing “Ugly” – Yes (2d)
LAF-250 – Yes (1d)
HLAF-250 – Yes (2d)
Blade-32 – None
Yevethan D-type Fighter – Yes (2d)
Clawcraft – Yes (1d+1)
Yorik-et Coralskipper – Yes (1d+2)

So out of 69 fighters here, we have only 14 without shields.

SEPARATIST
Droid Starfighter – No
Droid Bomber – No
Scarab – Yes (2d)
Advanced Droid Starfighter – No
Advanced Droid Bomber – No
Geonosian Starfighter – Yes (1d)
Geonosian Fanblade Starfighter – Yes (1d)
Mankvim-814 – Yes (1d)
Belbullab-22 – Yes (1d)
Tri-Fighter – No

So out of 10 fighters for the separatists, 5 have no shields.

IMPERIAL
V-Wing – Yes (1d)
ARC-170 – Yes (1d+2)
T.I.E. Starfighter – No
TIE Fighter – No
TIE Ground Targeting – No
TIE Reconnaissance – No
TIE Fire Control – No
TIE Advanced x1 – Yes (1d+1)
TIE Aggressor – Yes (1d+1)
Skypray Blastboat – Yes (2d)
TIE Interceptor – No
TIE Bomber – No
TIE Shuttle – No
TIE Vanguard – No
TIE Raptor – No
TIE Phantom – Yes (1d+2)
TIE Oppressor – Yes (1d+2)
Assault Gunboat – Yes (2d)
Missile Boat – Yes (1d+2)
Space Battle Droid – No
Scimitar Assault Bomber – Yes (1d+2)
TIE Advanced / Avenger – Yes (2d)
TIE Defender Prototype – No
TIE Defender – Yes (2d)
Super TIE/ln – No
TIE Droid – No
I-7 Howlrunner – Yes (1d+1)
Shadow Droid – Yes (2d)

So of 28 imperial fighters, 14 don't have shields..
And lastly...
ALLIANCE
X-Wing – Yes (1d)
Y-Wing Longprobe – Yes (1d)
A-Wing – Yes (1d)
B-Wing – Yes (2d)
Expanded B-Wing – Yes (2d+2)
T-Wing – Yes (1d+2)
H-Wing – Yes (2d)
A-9 Vigilance Interceptor – Yes (2d+2)
E-Wing – Yes (1d)
E-Wing: Type B – Yes (1d)
Reconnaissance X-Wing – Yes (1d)
T-65AC4 X-Wing – Yes (1d+2)
K-Wing Assault Bomber – Yes (2d)
Corellian Lancet – Yes (2d)
Defender – Yes (1d)
Cal Medium Starfighter – Yes (2d)
Starlancer Project Starship – 61
XJ X-Wing – Yes (1d)
XJ3 X-Wing – Yes (1d+2)

Of 19 alliance fighters, EVERYONE has shields..


I will get to freighters tomorrow..
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, garhkal, this is truly above and beyond the call of duty. Shocked Cool Very Happy
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