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Hyperspace Change of Course
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
It's also likely that we don't truly appreciate the distances involved.

Excellent point. I wish I could find one of those maps that gives us an idea of just how far it is to the planets in our own solar system. It's an eye-opener.

Yes, our little primate brains can't really conceive of the largeness of space. It's huuuge.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"That's why its called space.. There's lots of it!"
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

Yes, our little primate brains can't really conceive of the largeness of space. It's huuuge.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

My son was asking the other day: "Dad, where is the universe?"
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a good question. Other good questions are, "when is the universe", "why is the universe", and "is the universe"? All of these can have non-trivial answers.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
It's a good question. Other good questions are, "when is the universe", "why is the universe", and "is the universe"? All of these can have non-trivial answers.

To which God the Father replied - like any good parent - “because I said so.”
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
To which God the Father replied - like any good parent - “because I said so.”


Who?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
To which God the Father replied - like any good parent - “because I said so.”


Who?


Really?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Zarn wrote:
It's a good question. Other good questions are, "when is the universe", "why is the universe", and "is the universe"? All of these can have non-trivial answers.

To which God the Father replied - like any good parent - “because I said so.”


Wink
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
To which God the Father replied - like any good parent - “because I said so.”


Who?


Really?


Yes, really, who?

Whill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
It's also likely that we don't truly appreciate the distances involved.

Excellent point. I wish I could find one of those maps that gives us an idea of just how far it is to the planets in our own solar system. It's an eye-opener.

Yes, our little primate brains can't really conceive of the largeness of space. It's huuuge.


Yeah, this is one reason why Han's spiel in ANH about "crashing into stars or bouncing too close to a supernova" sounds silly in retrospect. The likelyhood of that sort of disaster happening must be extremely tiny given the relative smallness of the ships and the huge distances between stars. Hell, even when galaxies collide, the chances of any two stars smashing into each other is next to nil given the distances involved.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's one way of looking at it. However, there's a couple more - many galaxies have a well-defined plane, similar to how our Solar System has a well-defined plane, with only a couple of oddball bodies not aligned to that plane.

And there's a large number of stars. And they're huge, so you don't need to 'hit' them for something to go wrong, as much as you need to get close enough that your mass shadow sensor on the hyperdrive kicks in. And, if you're plotting a course from one random system to another random system (and hyperspace plots tend to be fairly straight-lined, whatever that may mean when translated back to our curved space-time), you might very well find your course blocked (or it will be blocked by the time you get there - stuff's moving, and novae are particularly fast-moving, though they shouldn't be much of a surprise with good starmaps).

Therefore, Hyperspace 'routes', like the Hydian Way. And therefore, hyperspace traffic control, like around Kuat. Sure, it's called space because there's a lot of it. But not all of it is usable, in the sense that you can pass through it on your way to your destination. And given that most of the interesting things you can do tend to be relatively close to system primaries... well, there you go.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except that the ships are traveling at dozens or even more than 100 times the speed of light, which mitigates the influence of gravity. It's likely that ships traveling in hyperspace are traveling well beyond the escape velocity even for stars. Heck, at hyperspace speeds, it may even be possible to escape a black hole.
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Zarn
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spaghettification. If the gravity gradient's too steep, that's what happens. Also, we know it happens in hyperspace because that's what the technobabble says.

To quote Wookieepedia:
"However, large objects in realspace cast "mass shadows" in hyperspace, so hyperspace jumps necessitated very precise calculations. Without those, a vessel could fly right through a star or another celestial body."

Frankly, who knows what really happens when translating into and out of hyperspace? The Cronau radiation might just be time-traveling light for all that we know.

Also, the speed itself won't mitigate the influence of gravity. Gravity's still there. The escape velocity doesn't really enter into it. And you can't escape a black hole in realspace as far as we know once you're past the event horizon. Literally. Hawking radiation notwithstanding.

And furthermore, though Hyperspace is supposed to be coterminous with realspace, only Lucas knows what that means. And considering that purrgils can travel there naturally, that's even more degrees of strange.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
And you can't escape a black hole in realspace as far as we know once you're past the event horizon. Literally. Hawking radiation notwithstanding.


Dude, you remembered the Hawking radiation escaping a black hole!

I salute you wholeheartedly and without reservation, sir, for remembering Hawkins' adage that "black holes ain't so black." Cool
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Yes, really, who?

It’s a play on a couple different concepts of Christian theology (God the Father being one of the three aspects of the Trinity, combined with the creation story in which God simply spoke the universe into existence), combined with the oft repeated line used by a frustrated parent who wishes to end an inquisitive child’s line of questioning: “because I SAID so.”

Quote:
Yeah, this is one reason why Han's spiel in ANH about "crashing into stars or bouncing too close to a supernova" sounds silly in retrospect. The likelyhood of that sort of disaster happening must be extremely tiny given the relative smallness of the ships and the huge distances between stars. Hell, even when galaxies collide, the chances of any two stars smashing into each other is next to nil given the distances involved.

Possible, if improbable. It’s likely Han was hyperbolizing to make the silly farm boy stop bothering him with stupid questions.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
Spaghettification. If the gravity gradient's too steep, that's what happens. Also, we know it happens in hyperspace because that's what the technobabble says.

To quote Wookieepedia:
"However, large objects in realspace cast "mass shadows" in hyperspace, so hyperspace jumps necessitated very precise calculations. Without those, a vessel could fly right through a star or another celestial body."

Frankly, who knows what really happens when translating into and out of hyperspace? The Cronau radiation might just be time-traveling light for all that we know.

Also, the speed itself won't mitigate the influence of gravity. Gravity's still there. The escape velocity doesn't really enter into it. And you can't escape a black hole in realspace as far as we know once you're past the event horizon. Literally. Hawking radiation notwithstanding.

And furthermore, though Hyperspace is supposed to be coterminous with realspace, only Lucas knows what that means. And considering that purrgils can travel there naturally, that's even more degrees of strange.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

And you called my post "spaghettification."

Speed is literally the defiance of gravity. It certainly does factor in. The less gravity there is, the faster you can go. The faster you're already going, the more gravity it takes to stop you.

In any case, nothing about black holes is truly "known." It's all postulated based on edumacated guesses. Light cannot escape past the event horizon, but light is slower than a ship traveling via it's hyperdrive.
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