The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

The Scout Rifle Concept for Star Wars
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech -> The Scout Rifle Concept for Star Wars Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2371

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: The Scout Rifle Concept for Star Wars Reply with quote

Even though I feel that the RAW don't do a very good job of differentiating weapons from each other, here is an attempt to put something together that is a pretty cool idea in theory for use in RAW combat.

Name: Scout Rifle (Per Manufacturer)
Scale: Character
Skill: Blaster; Blaster Rifle
Ammo: 75
Cost: 1200 (Power Packs: 50); 1800 with scout scope
Availability: 2
Range: Rifle with iron sights [5-50/200/300]; with scout scope [25-75/300/400]
Damage: 6D

Description: The concept of a scout rifle is based on the idea that an opportunity (or necessity) to shoot should be taken when available, and the first shot should be as fast and as accurate as possible. The "scout scope" is mounted far forward on the rifle, allowing for a target to be acquired through the scope while also keeping both eyes open. This gives the shooter much greater situational awareness when engaging targets (game or threats). To represent this, during the first round of combat, a character who declares his first action as an attack with the scout rifle resolves that action with a +5 bonus on his initiative. Note that this bonus does not actually increase the shooter's initiative total, but it can result in his shot interrupting a character who actually rolled higher on initiative. After the first round of combat, resolve actions using the normal initiative order.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mamatried
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 535
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Like the idea and the weapon, maybe even expand on the idea and make some ver ver emergency weapons for scouts as well, maybe something that fits all, but is neither.

I picture verious range and damage stats
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2371

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure I follow.

The idea of the scout rifle is that it is a general purpose rifle that can be used with speed (for relatively "close range" targets) as well as distance for more remote, less urgent shots. The primary compromise is that the optics that are useful for such a role are necessarily limited in the amount of magnification the provide, so you don't get the full limits of the weapon's absolute max range (which is usually around 1000m for shooters who know how to shoot that far).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mamatried
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 535
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking more like a survival type gun, like the M6 Aircrew Survival Weapon and the M4 Scout Rifle, AR-7 And the like

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M6_Aircrew_Survival_Weapon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-7
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 11892
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would a scout's rifle be so damaging? I can see a need for it to have better range than normal though.
_________________
It's Not who you kill, but how they die!
You cannot dodge it if you do not know it is coming, and you cannot hit it if you do not know its there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarn
Captain
Captain


Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 662
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A blaster carbine has the same damage as a blaster rifle - 5D base, but individual models can obviously vary. The way I read the entry on the scout rifle, I feel a blaster carbine fills much of the same role as a smaller, handier rifle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2371

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a "scout's" rifle. Take a look at the scout rifle concept by Jeff Cooper.

A scout rifle needs to be able to take game in excess 400 or so pounds. It also tends to be a bolt action weapon, but modern interpretations have been configured on semi auto platforms.

Essentialy, its the difference between a modern .308/7.62 NATO and a 5.56 NATO, the latter being used as a primary issue fighting weapon by most militaries in the world, and therefore the most analogous to a standard 5D "blaster rifle." The scout rifle is more powerful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2371

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
A blaster carbine has the same damage as a blaster rifle - 5D base, but individual models can obviously vary. The way I read the entry on the scout rifle, I feel a blaster carbine fills much of the same role as a smaller, handier rifle.


A carbine is handier than a rifle, but what makes a scout rifle a scout rifle is the scope: both its magnification (relatively low to medium power) and its long eye relief. If you don't have the long eye relief, its not a scout configuration.

It's more comparable to a short (read: medium) range sniper rifle than a shortened/lightened carbine.


Last edited by Naaman on Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 11892
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
A blaster carbine has the same damage as a blaster rifle - 5D base, but individual models can obviously vary. The way I read the entry on the scout rifle, I feel a blaster carbine fills much of the same role as a smaller, handier rifle.


True, most carbines appear to be shorter range, same damage..
But i also think they are more used for close in combat fighting.
_________________
It's Not who you kill, but how they die!
You cannot dodge it if you do not know it is coming, and you cannot hit it if you do not know its there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Forceally
Commander
Commander


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 479

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick question then - you've been mentioning the blaster carbine. Obviously, to fire one, one would use the blaster skill. But if I were to use a specialization, would it be blaster: blaster rifle or blaster: blaster carbine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2371

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume this is directed a Garhkal, but my opinion is that a carbine is sufficiently similar to a rifle to warrant coverage by the same specialization.

Historically, a carbine was both smaller and weaker (different ammo) than a "rifle." Nowadays, the concept of a carbine has evolved into a standard "rifle" with a shortened barrel. Adjustable/collapsible stocks are also typical if you are bothering to make a distinction; but the "ideal" weapon of combat in modern times is technically a carbine, but usually called a rifle. There is little distinction between the two terms except when it matters to the actual application. For example, the Mk12 is certainly a "rifle" while the Mk18 is certainly a "carbine" or "short barreled rifle." But for purposes of the nomenclature of a primary weapon, the Mk18 would be called "my rifle" by those who carry it, whereas the Mk12 would never be called "my carbine."


Last edited by Naaman on Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 11892
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forceally wrote:
A quick question then - you've been mentioning the blaster carbine. Obviously, to fire one, one would use the blaster skill. But if I were to use a specialization, would it be blaster: blaster rifle or blaster: blaster carbine.


Spec, blaster carbine. I've never seen anything that would indicate rifles and carbines are the same spec. just like heavy blaster pistol is its own spec, while pistols is its own spec..

As per page 18 in the base 2e blue cover rule book
Quote:
Specialization:Many skills have specializations, when a character specializes, he has concentrated on learning a lot about a bery small area covered by a skill. He is very good when using tools, or abilities directly related to the specialization, but when he uses something outside his specialization, he simply uses the basic skill in that area. Chapter four "Attributes and skills" defines specializations as well.
Dexterity
A measure of hand eye coordination, balance and agility.
* archaic guns - specilizations include black powder pistols, matchlocks, muskets, wheel locks or any other weapon.
* blaster - specializations include blaster pistol, heavy blaster pistol, blaster rifle, hold out blaster, repeating blaster or any other type.


And from page 38, 2e revised
Quote:
Blaster
Time Taken: One round.
Specializations: A specific type or model of character-scale blaster weapon — blaster pistol, heavy blaster pistol, blaster rifle, BlasTech DL-44, hold-out blaster.
Blaster is the "ranged combat" skill used to shoot blaster weapons that can be held and carried by a character. Blaster covers everything from tiny holdout blasters to large repeating blasters (such as the EWEB
heavy repeating blaster used by Imperial snowtroopers on Hoth in The Empire Strikes Back).
Other blaster types include sporting blasters (Princess Leia uses a sporting blaster in Star Wars: A New Hope), blaster pistols, heavy blaster pistols (like Han Solo's BlasTech DL-44), and the blaster rifles used by stormtroopers.


So by the write ups in both 2e base and 2e R&E, it certainly seems like carbine would be its OWN spec, not linked to rifle..
_________________
It's Not who you kill, but how they die!
You cannot dodge it if you do not know it is coming, and you cannot hit it if you do not know its there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
denderan marajain
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 213
Location: Vienna, Austria

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, I always like it when people do something for the equipment Smile


But are not there already such similar weapons? What sets this weapon apart from those that already exist officially (apart from the Initiative Bonus)?


Do not you find the damage a little high?

This Sniper Rifle itself only damages 5D and is just one of many examples

Quote:
Model: SoroSuub X-45 Sniper Rifle
Type: Sniper blaster rifle
Scale: Character
Skill: Blasters: blaster rifle
Ammo: 25 Cost: 750
Availability: 2, R or X
Fire Rate: 1 Range: 1-25/100/250
Damage: 5D
Game Notes: When using the rifle’s targeting scope, reduce all Long Range or precision shot difficulty levels to Moderate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zarn
Captain
Captain


Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 662
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One could even argue that the specializations under Blaster should really be an individual weapon or weapon type, rather than a 'class' of blaster; i.e. that to use a scout rifle specialization, the specialization is not Blaster: Scout Rifle, but rather Blaster: (specific model of scout rifle) (given that the DL-44 was namedropped in the description garhkal linked).

Then, there's oddities like Boba Fett's blaster of choice - an EE-3 "carbine rifle", which seems to be kinda Frankensteined together.

There's also the http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/A-11_Scout_Disruptor A-11 Scout Disruptor, which seems to point towards some idea of a 'scout rifle' existing in the SWEU - though there's no (low-powered) scope on it.

Come to think of it - if a rifle is scomp linked, wouldn't that obviate the need for a scout rifle?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2371

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

denderan marajain wrote:
Basically, I always like it when people do something for the equipment Smile


But are not there already such similar weapons? What sets this weapon apart from those that already exist officially (apart from the Initiative Bonus)?


Do not you find the damage a little high?

This Sniper Rifle itself only damages 5D and is just one of many examples

Quote:
Model: SoroSuub X-45 Sniper Rifle
Type: Sniper blaster rifle
Scale: Character
Skill: Blasters: blaster rifle
Ammo: 25 Cost: 750
Availability: 2, R or X
Fire Rate: 1 Range: 1-25/100/250
Damage: 5D
Game Notes: When using the rifle’s targeting scope, reduce all Long Range or precision shot difficulty levels to Moderate.


Yes.

In the initial post, I said that my opinion is that the RAW fails to differentiate weapon types sufficiently. So trying to stay within the framework of the RAW (adding no new mechanics), I presented this option.

Note also that "scout" refers to the rifle's configuration, not its "type." Any rifle that is sufficiently powerful enough and lightweight enough can be a scout rifle, if only the optic allows for fast and accurate target acquisition with both eyes open (hence the forward mounted scope).

The reference to the sniper rifle given above seems to illustrate my point about weapons not being different enough. A sniper needs to be able to achieve "one shot, one kill." Shooting in the chest against an armored target with a "mere" 5D will not result in consistent enough damage to achieve the necessary lethality. With 6D against an armored target rolling 3D to soak, the average rolls will result in immediate incapacitation which is at least enough to take the target out of the fight entirely.

If you like the idea but feel damage is too high, feel free to put it to use with whatever modifications you deem appropriate.

Full disclosure, I already revamped the entire weapons/combat system to make weapon selection much more consequential, but those rules deviate too much from RAW to be easily dropped into just amyone's game. This is the RAW-compatible version.


Last edited by Naaman on Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0