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The Scout Rifle Concept for Star Wars
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree with CRMcNeill regarding the scope vs rifle thing. The advantages are a function of the overall set up, rather than a quality inherent to an un-scoped rifle.

Also, the write up here is intended to "drop in" to the RAW.

As a GM considering using this, I'd advise limiting it to weapons within a certain size and weight spectrum. A weapon too large/heavy defeats the purpose.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I'd personally enjoy some subtle differences in blaster classes in Star Wars. The fact that most weapons do 5D, I feel is a disservice to the game. Especially when you have so many people complaining about the "Bulletproof Wookiee" effect. Sniper and scout weapons, I feel should do a little more damage than your basic rifle/carbine, for a few reasons. To name a few, 5D damage on a Sniper weapon is not very likely to drop most targets in a single shot, which sort of defeats the purpose of the weapon. In addition, scouts and snipers may have to contend with large beasts in the wild, in which a 5D blaster is little more than a pellet gun.

I'm okay with a weapon that does higher damage with a lower blast count, because things like ammo conservation in combat become that much more important. Yes, tracking ammunition is a little tedious, but so is have unlimited ammunition in a firefight, the blast pack only being empty on complications of the wild die.

I'm really looking forward to seeing his upcoming revised weapons, as I enjoy running SpecForce type campaigns, where weapons and tactics are an important part of surviving the mission.


Oh, man! I've been out of it for a while. A lot going on lately.

Let me see if I can dig up the 2.0. Not sure if I'll find it since I've changed computers... If not I may refresh the idea on the forums.

I ran them by Whill a while back and he said they aren't overly crunchy, FWIW.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I'd personally enjoy some subtle differences in blaster classes in Star Wars. The fact that most weapons do 5D, I feel is a disservice to the game. Especially when you have so many people complaining about the "Bulletproof Wookiee" effect. Sniper and scout weapons, I feel should do a little more damage than your basic rifle/carbine, for a few reasons. To name a few, 5D damage on a Sniper weapon is not very likely to drop most targets in a single shot, which sort of defeats the purpose of the weapon. In addition, scouts and snipers may have to contend with large beasts in the wild, in which a 5D blaster is little more than a pellet gun.


I agree. A true sniper weapon, should imo be at least 6d maybe even 6d+2, with a longer range than regular weapons. BUT to compensate, it may have a slow rate of fire (say 1 shot every other round), and a low 'count' for the ammo pack.

Raven Redstar wrote:
i'm okay with a weapon that does higher damage with a lower blast count, because things like ammo conservation in combat become that much more important. Yes, tracking ammunition is a little tedious, but so is have unlimited ammunition in a firefight, the blast pack only being empty on complications of the wild die.


Which is why i DO like using fire rates and try to track shots.. BUT with most pistols even, having 50 or more shots, unless they are going hogwild in a combat, they usually won't run through that # of shots in a single combat, so can easily switch to another power pack before the next combat..
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Let me see if I can dig up the 2.0. Not sure if I'll find it since I've changed computers... If not I may refresh the idea on the forums.

I ran them by Whill a while back and he said they aren't overly crunchy, FWIW.

I do kinda remember that. I looked and I couldn't find it. If you can dig them up, please share.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:

I agree. A true sniper weapon, should imo be at least 6d maybe even 6d+2, with a longer range than regular weapons. BUT to compensate, it may have a slow rate of fire (say 1 shot every other round), and a low 'count' for the ammo pack.

Which is why i DO like using fire rates and try to track shots.. BUT with most pistols even, having 50 or more shots, unless they are going hogwild in a combat, they usually won't run through that # of shots in a single combat, so can easily switch to another power pack before the next combat..


These are some of the very reasons why I revamped the weapons system (at least, the ranged weapons... which may cause some incongruity with the melee weapons, YMMV).

I feel there is a lot of dramatic value in needing to reload mid fight. One way to handle reloads that would not require tracking individual shots would be to give each weapon an ammo die code. At the end of each round, you could "roll ammo" to determine whether a character needs to reload, with each round increasing the difficulty of the roll (kind of like a stamina check). A character who chooses to reload before he runs out resets the difficulty. I don't know... just a quick thought that probably belongs in a separate thread if it's to be discussed further.


Whill wrote:

I do kinda remember that. I looked and I couldn't find it. If you can dig them up, please share.


I'll put them in a new thread.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:

I feel there is a lot of dramatic value in needing to reload mid fight. One way to handle reloads that would not require tracking individual shots would be to give each weapon an ammo die code. At the end of each round, you could "roll ammo" to determine whether a character needs to reload, with each round increasing the difficulty of the roll (kind of like a stamina check). A character who chooses to reload before he runs out resets the difficulty. I don't know... just a quick thought that probably belongs in a separate thread if it's to be discussed further.


Perhaps hold outs have only 2d in their "roll ammo" pool, 3d for heavy pistols, 4d for regular pistols, and 5d for rifles/carbines.
Each shot fired, makes a cumulative 1 for 'its empty' difficulty, and at the end of each combat round, every blaster wielder rolls his weapons pool vs its diff..
So if a stormie shoots twice in round 1, 2 and 3, then thrice in round 4, he's got a combined 8 diff.
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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_rifle

Name: Scout Rifle
Scale: Character
Skill: Blaster
Ammo: 50
Cost: 1,500 (Power Packs: 50)
Range: 3-20/100/200m
Damage: 5D

Scope adds +1D to rolls at medium and long ranges.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I tend to agree with CRMcNeill regarding the scope vs rifle thing. The advantages are a function of the overall set up, rather than a quality inherent to an un-scoped rifle.

Also, the write up here is intended to "drop in" to the RAW.

Something that your stat doesn't appear to address (and that is mentioned in multiple times in various sources on Scout Rifles) is peripheral vision. Should there also be some sort of advantage to Perception / Search when using a scout configuration? Maybe that a character can ignore 1D of MAP while firing with a scout scope and making a Perception / Search roll in the same round?

Quote:
As a GM considering using this, I'd advise limiting it to weapons within a certain size and weight spectrum. A weapon too large/heavy defeats the purpose.

So, which of the weapons on this list would qualify?
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Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

Something that your stat doesn't appear to address (and that is mentioned in multiple times in various sources on Scout Rifles) is peripheral vision. Should there also be some sort of advantage to Perception / Search when using a scout configuration? Maybe that a character can ignore 1D of MAP while firing with a scout scope and making a Perception / Search roll in the same round?


That's what the initiative bonus is for.

CRMcNeill wrote:

So, which of the weapons on this list would qualify?


In my opinion, the scout rifle is a "more than the sum of it's parts" kind of thing. For this reason, I hold that the scout rifle should have 6D damage (using your system or one that is like RAW). In my system it would translate into 5D+2, and include some weapons that deal 6D (or maybe even 6D+1) damage.

But in terms of the primary game rule that sets this set-up apart, it can be any weapon that is a rifle (or even long gun) and has the optic mounted forward (long eye relief), rather than on the receiver (standard eye relief). However, I hesitate to allow a full-auto-only weapon to gain the benefit (or a weapon that is set to full auto instead of semi).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
That's what the initiative bonus is for.

That's an awfully restrictive advantage. Why would a peripheral vision advantage only be applied when someone else is about to shoot at you?
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That's an awfully restrictive advantage. Why would a peripheral vision advantage only be applied when someone else is about to shoot at you?


Initiative could be seen as who is able to acquire, sight in on their target, and fire first.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Initiative could be seen as who is able to acquire, sight in on their target, and fire first.

Yes, but that type of advantage would not just be limited to when someone is shooting at you.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Something that your stat doesn't appear to address (and that is mentioned in multiple times in various sources on Scout Rifles) is peripheral vision. Should there also be some sort of advantage to Perception / Search when using a scout configuration? Maybe that a character can ignore 1D of MAP while firing with a scout scope and making a Perception / Search roll in the same round?


Sorry, I didn't read back far enough to see your original proposal. I could definitely see allowing a person to get a free search/perception check to spot hidden/sneaking enemies.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Naaman wrote:
That's what the initiative bonus is for.

That's an awfully restrictive advantage. Why would a peripheral vision advantage only be applied when someone else is about to shoot at you?


It doesn't matter what the other person is about to do. They might be trying to avoid you all together (such as when a hunter and prey notice each other at the same time: the animal would try to run and hide, while the hunter could quickly get on target accurately enough--due to the scope--for a quick, humane kill, for example).

Initiative is perception based. The idea of the scout rifle is about making quick shots. The quick shots are possible because the shooter has a greater field of view due to the fact that he can stay out of the scope until the last second. The advantage of the scout set up is that it does not require as much "prep time" before taking a shot. So the "search" check is made at no penalty (since the shooter is not "in the scope") and when his peripheral vision tracks movement (which is the primary function of peripheral vision), he can focus in on it, aim through the scope, and fire more or less reflexively.

With a regular rifle, you would do the exact same thing, but it would take longer (i.e. it would use the regular rules for noticing stuff and reacting to it).

Does all that make sense?

Having said all that, if you feel that the peripheral vision needs to be more greatly emphasized, I think that your suggestion is appropriate and not overpowering, though I feel that the reaction time bonus is the primary benefit of the scout rifle/scope.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
Raven Redstar wrote:
I'd personally enjoy some subtle differences in blaster classes in Star Wars. The fact that most weapons do 5D, I feel is a disservice to the game. Especially when you have so many people complaining about the "Bulletproof Wookiee" effect. Sniper and scout weapons, I feel should do a little more damage than your basic rifle/carbine, for a few reasons. To name a few, 5D damage on a Sniper weapon is not very likely to drop most targets in a single shot, which sort of defeats the purpose of the weapon. In addition, scouts and snipers may have to contend with large beasts in the wild, in which a 5D blaster is little more than a pellet gun.


Hmm... so maybe things like sniper weapons that if you take a full round round action to aim, the next round you get a +1D or +2D to damage?

Just spit-balling an idea here.


I rather like this idea as a "drop-in" for sniper-type weapons. My personal preference, however, is a bit more technical than what the RAW can support. Once fully understood, my version should run just as smoothly as RAW, but it's the decision making concerning gear/equipment selection which will take more time (and actual decision-making as opposed to just worrying about the difference between 4D and 5D damage when shopping for weapons).

I have abandoned the idea that aiming should be an "action" or (a full-round action, or even that it must be done "instead of" shooting). I rather interpret "aiming" as taking a voluntary initiative penalty in order to offset a penalty on something like a called shot. Of course, the "full-round action" also serves the same purpose, but I could see it being abused: a player or NPC who realizes that he is being aimed at would just move, thus spoiling the shot, and possibly preventing the sniper from ever being able to fire (this, of course, is realistic and tactical, but it too easily removes the danger of a sniper). On the other hand, if the sniper gives up some initiative, there is still some chance that he may get to fire before the target can do anything about it.

But more importantly, it allows for "aiming" in dynamic combat as well, and for this reason, above the "sniping" one, I find that "aiming" is better expressed by an initiative penalty rather than a full-round action. See the Tactical Combat thread for details.

Sample:
Naaman wrote:


DEXTERITY

Blaster/Slugthrower
Shoot at target: One action; opposed by dodge or variable static difficulty

Aimed Shot: One action; before anyone acts at the start of the round, you may choose to declare that you are taking extra time to aim your shot. You choose a penalty of up to -6 on your initiative, and you gain a bonus equal to half the penalty on your attack roll [up to +3].

Shoot From the Hip: One action; before anyone acts at the start of the round, you may choose to declare that you are trying to speed up your shot at the expense of accuracy. You choose a penalty of up to -6 on your attack roll and you gain a bonus equal to half the penalty on your initiative [up to +3].

Snap Shot: Reaction; you may fire your blaster at a target of opportunity. If you do, you lose the benefits of your dodge skill for this round and you can only shoot at a single target in this manner per round. You suffer a -6 penalty to your attack roll [per the hip shooting option], but you do not gain the bonus to your initiative: instead, you're gaining the chance to attack before your turn.

Called Shot: A character may attempt to call a shot to a specific location on his target's body. This has the effect of increasing the difficulty by +10. If the attack is successful, resolve it according to the following rules:

If the area targeted is the head or heart, increase damage by +2D.

If the area targeted is some other vital organ (such as lungs, stomach, kidneys, etc) add +1D to damage.

If the area targeted is not a vital organ (such as the arms or legs), roll damage normally, but treat killed results as mortally wounded; treat mortally wounded results as incapacitated; treat incapacitated results as wounded. Treat wounded or stunned results normally.
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