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Hit location, and armor
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Snapshot
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:21 am    Post subject: Hit location, and armor Reply with quote

I'm new to the d6 system and I'm a bit uncertain about some of the mechanics of combat damage.

If you don't use hit locations in your game, how do you handle armor that doesn't cover all body parts (eg., a flak jacket that gives +1D to the torso only)?

If you allow called shots on hit locations, do you find your players call "head shot" a lot since the penalty is only +1D (REUP edition)? +1D while target shooting seems plausible; in the heat of battle, I don't know...
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One way you could resolve this issue is to use the random hit locations; however, I find that to be a little bit too artificial.

You could rule that since body armor is designed to protect the most vital organs, that a shot is always assumed to hit the armor (giving the target the benefit of the doubt) unless the attacker accepts a difficulty increase to call a shot.

As for a +1D on the difficulty level for a head shot, I give the defender a +10 bonus on their dodge roll (or raise the difficulty by +10 if the target isn't choosing to dodge) anytime the shooter calls a shot to any location as specific as the head; and it's an all or nothing affair (they hit the head or they miss the character all together--there is no "you rolled high enough to hit the torso but not the head").
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Hit location, and armor Reply with quote

Snapshot wrote:
I'm new to the d6 system and I'm a bit uncertain about some of the mechanics of combat damage.

If you don't use hit locations in your game, how do you handle armor that doesn't cover all body parts (eg., a flak jacket that gives +1D to the torso only)?


You really can't. For ME, it would be a called shot (at least +5 to hit penalty) to try and shoot to bypass the armor.

Snapshot wrote:
If you allow called shots on hit locations, do you find your players call "head shot" a lot since the penalty is only +1D (REUP edition)? +1D while target shooting seems plausible; in the heat of battle, I don't know...


If they have the skill for shooting like that, sure. But remember, the R&E called shot rules, are different than Reup's are.
Targeting a specific location,
Quote:
Add +1D to the difficulty for a target 10 to 50
centimeters long. Add +4D to the difficulty for a target
one to 10 centimeters long. Add +8D to the difficulty for
a target less than a centimeter long.


Plus the ENEMY CAN DO THE SAME..
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You cannot dodge it if you do not know it is coming, and you cannot hit it if you do not know its there.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the main reason that there is no hit location system is that the game take into account that in fact, most shot that are somewhat aimed are aimed at the largest part of the body, torso.
So I think most hits represent torso hits.


Called shots, or even for the defender a +/- to his damage roll could indicate a limb.

Most wounds to head and torso will be deadly, or close to, while a shot to the arm is less deadly, but more than enough to knock you out, stun etc.

A hit location system could however be a welcommed addition
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i wanna use a hit location system, i've often defaulted to a modified version of the B/tech hit locations.
roll 2d6
2 right leg
3-4 right arm
5-8 Torso
9-10 left arm
11 left leg
12 head
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You cannot dodge it if you do not know it is coming, and you cannot hit it if you do not know its there.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used a D12 over the years. (Yes, I know it's not a D6, but it's nice to get some use from my full polyhedral sets.)

1: Head
2: Chest:
3: Right Shoulder/Upper Arm
4: Left Shoulder/Upper Arm
5: Right Hand/Lower Arm
6: Left Hand/Lower Arm
7: Gut
8: Groin
9: Right Upper Leg
10: Left Upper Leg
11: Right Lower Leg/Foot
12: Left Lower Leg/Foot
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NICE!
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I developed a system where every shot, by default, has armor bonuses applied. (as mentioned by naaman, and others, most armor is meant to cover the most-often hit parts of the body)

If the person still gets wounded, even with the bonus to the soak roll, then one interpretation is that the blast hit a weak (or non existent) portion of the armor). Of course the other interpretation is that the shot penetrated the armor.

I let context, type of armor and weapon dictate which it is, narratively.

When I was running my Mandalorian based game, armor types, styles and coverage played a significant part.

I had a system to calculate 'coverage'.

So while normal shots defaulted to armour, a character had the option of trying to aim for a weak spot, or non-armored spot.

The coverage number was added to the difficulty. If the attack roll surpassed the coverage, then the target couldn't use any armor bonuses to soak the damage.

So very sparse armor might have a coverage of 6. So a 10 would become a 16.

Very extensive armor might have a coverage of 20. So a 10 would become a 30. Much harder to find the weak or un-armored spot.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is an interesting method.. Do you have a chart showing all that 'coverage' bonuses?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at what happens if you loose a leg, reduced dex.
then I would actually say it can be quite relevant for hit locatons.

A called shot is a called shot, but an accidental shot can just as easily hita guy's leg as his chest, and at least if he has a chest armor nothing much happens, but if the leg is hit, with armors that do state cover upper body, then this wound, even if only resulting a slight stun should hinder movement and influence dex for moveing at least.

you won't be a worse shot if you have leg missing, but an arm...etc
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
I developed a system where every shot, by default, has armor bonuses applied. (as mentioned by naaman, and others, most armor is meant to cover the most-often hit parts of the body)

If the person still gets wounded, even with the bonus to the soak roll, then one interpretation is that the blast hit a weak (or non existent) portion of the armor). Of course the other interpretation is that the shot penetrated the armor.

I let context, type of armor and weapon dictate which it is, narratively.

When I was running my Mandalorian based game, armor types, styles and coverage played a significant part.

I had a system to calculate 'coverage'.

So while normal shots defaulted to armour, a character had the option of trying to aim for a weak spot, or non-armored spot.

The coverage number was added to the difficulty. If the attack roll surpassed the coverage, then the target couldn't use any armor bonuses to soak the damage.

So very sparse armor might have a coverage of 6. So a 10 would become a 16.

Very extensive armor might have a coverage of 20. So a 10 would become a 30. Much harder to find the weak or un-armored spot.


It feels like a blend between D&D and D6.

If I read it right, you're saying that the coverage bonus ONLY applies when they try to make a "called shot" to a weak/unarmored spot?

It's an elegant solution, I think.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
Looking at what happens if you loose a leg, reduced dex.
then I would actually say it can be quite relevant for hit locatons.

A called shot is a called shot, but an accidental shot can just as easily hita guy's leg as his chest, and at least if he has a chest armor nothing much happens, but if the leg is hit, with armors that do state cover upper body, then this wound, even if only resulting a slight stun should hinder movement and influence dex for moveing at least.

you won't be a worse shot if you have leg missing, but an arm...etc


I think the rules are more abstract than that.

Basically, what you're describing would seem to me to be a function of the damage roll, not the attack roll (I feel that the rules rely on the damage roll to determine "what got hit" because the higher the damage roll, the more critical the effect--which easily translates into the difference between being shot in the lungs and shot in the shin).
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
Looking at what happens if you loose a leg, reduced dex.
then I would actually say it can be quite relevant for hit locatons.

A called shot is a called shot, but an accidental shot can just as easily hita guy's leg as his chest, and at least if he has a chest armor nothing much happens, but if the leg is hit, with armors that do state cover upper body, then this wound, even if only resulting a slight stun should hinder movement and influence dex for moveing at least.

you won't be a worse shot if you have leg missing, but an arm...etc


I think the rules are more abstract than that.

Basically, what you're describing would seem to me to be a function of the damage roll, not the attack roll (I feel that the rules rely on the damage roll to determine "what got hit" because the higher the damage roll, the more critical the effect--which easily translates into the difference between being shot in the lungs and shot in the shin).



Yes, and this is to me the value of hit location tables.

a simple called shot is enough to hit, anything, so to me it is all about the effect.

hitting somewhere unarmored, or a gap in the armor is ok, but a wounded leg and a wounded arm have different effects on movement and skill use.

I hit an unarmored location, I deal damage ( not applying the armor), now what, where did I hit on the body, anywhere, a spesific place,

does it matter if the target can't wlak, or if he can't shoot, or see.....
are ll unarmored loctions the same with the same outcome if hit?


so to me it has to be locations that can be hit, each having their own threshold, and each having wider effects if injured.

leg is wounded, reduce movement and move based dex skills by XD+X
arm is wounded reduce either main blaster and main hand use skills, including piloting by XD+X
Or reduce all two handed , like rifle and again pilot and such

so to me the important thing is what happens, not how to hit it.

an attack that is 15 higher is a good one and can hit in any armor crack, but again, what happens from the injury to that place.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see. In that case, I think it is also important to realize that a hit on the leg has no chance of instantly killing the target; so no matter what damage was rolled, a result of "killed" should be reduced at a minimum to "mortally wounded" (because, for example, the femoral artery was severed).

Another thing to consider is cover. Are the legs behind hard cover? If so, then did the character get a cover bonus? And if so, and he was still hit, then there are limits as to what body parts can still be hit.

The "simple way" to do this is to let the GM narrate what happens. Using a hit location chart (such as the one given in the rule book) may be good enough if all you're looking for is a quick and dirty solution. You could even roll hit location before rolling damage, though I would recommend letting a miss on a called shot be a miss all together, rather than letting a roll "still hit" if it was within the margin of error of the called shot.

Does that make sense?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I see. In that case, I think it is also important to realize that a hit on the leg has no chance of instantly killing the target; so no matter what damage was rolled, a result of "killed" should be reduced at a minimum to "mortally wounded" (because, for example, the femoral artery was severed).

Another thing to consider is cover. Are the legs behind hard cover? If so, then did the character get a cover bonus? And if so, and he was still hit, then there are limits as to what body parts can still be hit.

The "simple way" to do this is to let the GM narrate what happens. Using a hit location chart (such as the one given in the rule book) may be good enough if all you're looking for is a quick and dirty solution. You could even roll hit location before rolling damage, though I would recommend letting a miss on a called shot be a miss all together, rather than letting a roll "still hit" if it was within the margin of error of the called shot.

Does that make sense?


If mortally wounded in the leg is the leg being severed, then death will follow if not healed.

may not die during the combat, but soon after from loss of blood.
arms too, though it would take longer and be easier to prevent.

but I would only do that on a wild dice, though.

but yes in general a shot to the leg does not kill you, but it can knock you out, and the next "stunned" to the arm, can be enough to cause so much trauma you die.

to me damage adds up, if wounded then even a lesser wound is added to it, not just the more serious ones
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