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Hit location, and armor
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Snapshot
Cadet
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Joined: 04 Jun 2018
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for the discussion and inspiration. I'm loathe to make the combat system too complicated, since that doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game.

I've decided to pull a hit location table from another system (probably GURPS) and adjust/simplify for d6. As others have said, getting "killed" in the arm probably shouldn't result in immediate death (ie, cap result to mortally wounded), and get popped in the skull should probably be worse than taking one in the arm.

I'm not sure how to handle called shots just yet. In my mind, the "generous" +1D for a head shot makes it too compelling for my players, and it's only fair if they are head-shotting everything, then the baddies will be doing it back! I am toying with the idea that for each +1D bonus on the attack roll, the player (or non-mook NPC) can adjust the hit location dice by +1 (my hit location table will be a 3D roll). Would need some playtesting I think.
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Mamatried
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome to te Pit, Snapshot.

I just came up with a possible alternative.

if we take for granted that most shots are somewhat aimed, and thus will hit the torso area, then we can rule that on wild dice something happens outside that.

then on called shots, at the -1d or more when a hit is in the arm, we simply reduce the damage dice, or the result.
this way an arm wound is not a deadly as a chest wound.
hor the head we add +50% or double the result.

or add and remove dice for damage.

+2D head
+0D torso
-1D leg
-2D arm

then disregard hitlocation on normal attacks, use it for called shots and or with the wild dice.

and then any location table worsk and is just changed into xD6 to decide location.

6-8 may be left leg etc
on a 2D6
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Snapshot
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Mamatried. I'm going down the path of +/- D for some locations.
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dph
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Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REUP and the 2ER&E have the same penalty for a head shot (the size of a head making it fit the -1D penalty called shot category)

My player's use headshots often, particularly if they're not combat orientated (making their one shot count).

And yes, even though the rules discuss hit location as an 'optional' system, they ONLY provide armour values with that in mind.
I think if you want to keep it simple, just apply the Chest armour to all locations. Not perfect and it makes certain types of armour more powerful (like Hunter Armour) but perhaps called shots at legs and other exposed locations will make up for that.
It's the same issue with grenades for me. Seems silly that a blast would hit one location... but then what do you do? I always default to chest.

I myself have been trying to work out an elegant way for simplifying (eliminating) hit locations for my own D6 system. I think you'd have to fundamentally redesign how armour works...

As for hit location, I found that a D12 is a much more elegant way to do it.
1-2 Head
3 L Arm
4 r Arm
5-6 L Leg
7-8 R Leg
9-12 Body.

Then I found this amazing little die... [url] https://www.ebay.com/itm/RPG-Set-of-7-D12-Hit-Location-Die/222864684485?hash=item33e3c535c5:g:nmcAAOSwH1damkQS[/url]

It DOES have one face with something other than a location ('Target' I believe) but if you use it as 'head' it ends up being the same break down as above and no need to reference a chart!
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:

Yes, and this is to me the value of hit location tables.

a simple called shot is enough to hit, anything, so to me it is all about the effect.

hitting somewhere unarmored, or a gap in the armor is ok, but a wounded leg and a wounded arm have different effects on movement and skill use.

I hit an unarmored location, I deal damage ( not applying the armor), now what, where did I hit on the body, anywhere, a spesific place,

does it matter if the target can't wlak, or if he can't shoot, or see.....
are ll unarmored loctions the same with the same outcome if hit?.


But does a SW game need that 'granularity' in combat? To where you need to worry about what limb got hit, and what effect the hit on said limb causes??

Quote:
I see. In that case, I think it is also important to realize that a hit on the leg has no chance of instantly killing the target; so no matter what damage was rolled, a result of "killed" should be reduced at a minimum to "mortally wounded" (because, for example, the femoral artery was severed).


Sorry, but having had several comrades killed, cause they got shrapnel into their femerol artery (in the leg) causing them to bleed out to death, a severe leg wound CAN kill.

That said, i've often used a HR that when an enemy hits a PC called shot to a limb and gets a killed result (OR MORE) on the limb, the overall 'level' to the body would be incap..

So when that dark jedi hits a non-force user with his LS, he can call the shot to a limb to lop it off, rather than kill the guy. NOTE THAT is a he CAN opt for that, if it's in his nature to do so.

Naaman wrote:
Another thing to consider is cover. Are the legs behind hard cover? If so, then did the character get a cover bonus? And if so, and he was still hit, then there are limits as to what body parts can still be hit.


Good point N.. IN btech (the newer edition) you get a +1 to hit penalty for cover, and if hit in those locations cover protects against, the hit becomes a miss..
Could make the same here.

Snapshot wrote:
I'm not sure how to handle called shots just yet. In my mind, the "generous" +1D for a head shot makes it too compelling for my players, and it's only fair if they are head-shotting everything, then the baddies will be doing it back! I am toying with the idea that for each +1D bonus on the attack roll, the player (or non-mook NPC) can adjust the hit location dice by +1 (my hit location table will be a 3D roll). Would need some playtesting I think.


Well go a +5 min for making a called shot. The head counts imo in that 10-50 cm bracket, so would add a further +1d to that diff. BUT i can easily see it being a +2d on top of the +5 penalty.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A femoral artery shot is not an instant kill. Its a mortal wound. My original remark is correct.

And I think 2D+5 for a head shot is not unreasonable. Headshots are tough to make against a live target who is aware of you, let alone shooting back. Heck, they are hard enough on paper targets at combat speed under time pressure.
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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
That is an interesting method.. Do you have a chart showing all that 'coverage' bonuses?


No.

Well...sorta, but not quite.

When designing the armour, it accumulates points based on pieces of coverage...X number if it has a helmet....Y if it has a full-face helmet....add a couple more if it covers the forearms...a couple more if it covers the upper arms...

Then I factor in a multiplier based on the material the armour is made out of.

In the end I get the coverage number, which is the difficulty to bypass the armour if the shooter wants to make a called shot.


Naamanl wrote:


It feels like a blend between D&D and D6.

If I read it right, you're saying that the coverage bonus ONLY applies when they try to make a "called shot" to a weak/unarmored spot?

It's an elegant solution, I think.


Yes, that is how it works.
I found it worked out pretty well. Smile

I'll find and post the details when I get home.
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