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Template Reuse?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: Template Reuse? Reply with quote

I got this thread idea from garhkal in another thread. This is directed at GMs but it is a template/character-focused question so I posted it here.

garhkal wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
In order to play an Ewok, the Player has to come up with some special background in order to have the character function without restriction.

But how 'special is it' if every ewok character in a way pre ROTJ time frame, has the exact "was a stowaway" story??
Whill wrote:
It would be rare for a GM to have more than one Ewok PC, but if so, what GM would have them have the same stowaway story? "A special background" doesn't mean they would all have the same special background.
garhkal wrote:
Its not the DM who comes up with the player's character backround though. Its the player..


Do you allow PC template backgrounds to be reused as-is within the same campaign universe? Meaning there could be two "Smugglers" with the same background in the same universe for example?

Even with "Insert different planet name here", reusing the same template verbatim is just too coincidental so I wouldn't allow it.

I believe I have only ever had one template reuse ever in 30 years, but I have had multiple campaign universes. There were two Brash Pilots in one universe, and they were even from the same hick planet. They were actually best friends growing up. But they did not have the same exact background because neither one's background was exactly the published templates background. One was the son of a repulsorlift dealer and other was from a horse farm family. Both players tweaked the template's background and personality so they were still similar, but not exactly the same.

It's actually pretty rare in my experience that players even use the template text verbatim in the first place. Templates are great and can be used as-is for quick plug-in and play, but templates mostly seem to serve as inspiration for my players.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general I would not allow it, I would as gm demand a background change.

But I can see some or maybe one template being one where I would alllow a background reuse, even more than twice....the clone trooper, though I would advice the plyer to at least be a different type of clone
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have, on occasion, allowed a character from a short cancelled game to be brought into a new game.

However, I'm wary of characters who were played in long term games, and those who were approved of by other GMs.

If a character dies, I wouldn't allow the player to reuse the character with a new name and the same or really similar backstory.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how much it would even come up, so not sure whether its tht big a deal.

IMO, if a GM is too veto-crazy, it sucks the fun out of making a character. At some point, the GM might as well design the characters for the players and pass them out like dealing cards. What you get is what you get.

I would say that the happy medium may lie somewhere close to what Whill describes above: find a way to make the backgrounds mesh (best friends or siblings even) rather than use the GM trump card outright.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I'm not sure how much it would even come up, so not sure whether its tht big a deal.

I wouldn't have thought so either, but apparently it comes up for some in this game.

Naaman wrote:
IMO, if a GM is too veto-crazy, it sucks the fun out of making a character. At some point, the GM might as well design the characters for the players and pass them out like dealing cards. What you get is what you get.

I find this to be one of your most outrageous statements I've read on this forum.

So say a GM starts out a campaign universe with 100 templates for PCs to choose from as-is, and also allows players to pick one and make changes, and also allows players to write their own template from scratch. But after one campaign, three of those 100 templates are now disallowed for use as-is, leaving new players with 97 other templates to choose from as-is, making changes to the any of the 100 templates, or free-form writing their own, that is the GM being "veto-crazy"? That is the next thing from a GM handing out pre-gen characters to players?

I would think that even you, the player of players, would not support player freedom to make a PC exactly identical to a previous PC in the same campaign universe. I would think you would feel ashamed for any player who is so lazy to want to just repeat his own or another character.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: Template Reuse? Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I got this thread idea from garhkal in another thread. This is directed at GMs but it is a template/character-focused question so I posted it here.

Do you allow PC template backgrounds to be reused as-is within the same campaign universe? Meaning there could be two "Smugglers" with the same background in the same universe for example?


If they are related or otherwise linked, sure. Such as two characters, both who were minor jedi, had the same master, who got killed..

Whill wrote:

I believe I have only ever had one template reuse ever in 30 years, but I have had multiple campaign universes. There were two Brash Pilots in one universe, and they were even from the same hick planet. They were actually best friends growing up. But they did not have the same exact background because neither one's background was exactly the published templates background. One was the son of a repulsorlift dealer and other was from a horse farm family. Both players tweaked the template's background and personality so they were still similar, but not exactly the same.


I've had that too.. Not brash pilots, but i forget the vehicle operator type template they had from 'heroes and rogues'. Both from the same country, on the same planet. However, one focused on repulsors (swoops and airspeeders)< the other was a walker jock..

Whill wrote:

It's actually pretty rare in my experience that players even use the template text verbatim in the first place. Templates are great and can be used as-is for quick plug-in and play, but templates mostly seem to serve as inspiration for my players.


Yup. I've even had 3 bounty hunter templates on the same table before, but none had the same backstory.
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Ewoks were from the same clan, leaving on the same ship. And maybe they didn't stowaway, maybe they traded with a smuggler who was on Endor's moon to harvest fungus to make the spice Rockna blue. Or maybe they were live captured by a hunter who sold them to a private collector or a zoo, etc.

I've had a lot of people play Ewoks, myself included, there's different ways to get them off Endor's Moon.

Just because they left the planet the same way doesn't mean they have the same backstory. What did they do for their clan? Hunter? Shaman? Farmer? Builder? What was their family life like?
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had one campaign where everyone was a veteran of the Clone Wars. Even if they were all in the same unit, I wouldn't expect their backstories to be the same.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
I had one campaign where everyone was a veteran of the Clone Wars. Even if they were all in the same unit, I wouldn't expect their backstories to be the same.


I would, not identical, but same yes.

they were maybe clones, all trained on Kamino.
Not too much difference between class 1 and 2
not that much to do there other than training.

If they then was serving together they would be sent to the same places, done the same things.
On their free time or as part of special traning one could be a scout, and one a plot, then tis will be the difference in their otherwise quite generic clone background.

one could like to read, another to repair weapons and armor, one be into science etc.

but they would all share the more or less (99% I would argue) same background at least fom Kamino.

It is naturally your world, but this is how I would have done it.


so yes same background diferent details.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Naaman wrote:
I'm not sure how much it would even come up, so not sure whether its tht big a deal.

I wouldn't have thought so either, but apparently it comes up for some in this game.

Naaman wrote:
IMO, if a GM is too veto-crazy, it sucks the fun out of making a character. At some point, the GM might as well design the characters for the players and pass them out like dealing cards. What you get is what you get.

I find this to be one of your most outrageous statements I've read on this forum.

So say a GM starts out a campaign universe with 100 templates for PCs to choose from as-is, and also allows players to pick one and make changes, and also allows players to write their own template from scratch. But after one campaign, three of those 100 templates are now disallowed for use as-is, leaving new players with 97 other templates to choose from as-is, making changes to the any of the 100 templates, or free-form writing their own, that is the GM being "veto-crazy"? That is the next thing from a GM handing out pre-gen characters to players?

I would think that even you, the player of players, would not support player freedom to make a PC exactly identical to a previous PC in the same campaign universe. I would think you would feel ashamed for any player who is so lazy to want to just repeat his own or another character.



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

That post was written succinctly because it's difficult to correct mistakes and edit when posting on my phone. When on my phone, you will see lots of spelling and grammatical errors left uncorrected, and/or relatively short posts.

The scenario I imagined was something like a GM saying that only templates in the rule book would be allowed and no two players may play the same template.

As a player who tends not to use templates, I thought that the question was assuming that all players must choose a template. I offered the extreme scenario as an example of something absurd to hold the far left side of the spectrum, while a completely free form (player dictated) creation might occupy the far right side (I assumed I did not need to mention this because of the context of the original question).

Anyway, the point of the post was simply to reinforce what you ultimately used as the solution.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
If the Ewoks were from the same clan, leaving on the same ship.

The original question was more oriented towards two PCs not necessarily even in the same campaign. An Ewok PC template says he stowed away on a ship to escape Endor, and then another player later choosing the same PC template in the campaign universe - Some GMs seem to think the possibility of players choosing that should disallow Ewoks from even being PCs, or at least any more Ewok PCs after the first one. I was suggesting that GMs could allow more Ewok PCs if they simply require the subsequent ones to have different backgrounds so they don't match each other.

In my example above of two Brash Pilots from the same planet in the same universe, they didn't leave their hick planet together and they never adventured together. Just their backgrounds were tied together.

Now I guess you could always go the retcon route to get two Ewoks off-planet at the same time and just say, the first PC's background didn't mention that there was another Ewok that left with him or that when they got to civilization they got separated (which would all be in the second PC's background).

Kytross wrote:
And maybe they didn't stowaway, maybe they traded with a smuggler who was on Endor's moon to harvest fungus to make the spice Rockna blue. Or maybe they were live captured by a hunter who sold them to a private collector or a zoo, etc.

I've had a lot of people play Ewoks, myself included, there's different ways to get them off Endor's Moon.

Just because they left the planet the same way doesn't mean they have the same backstory. What did they do for their clan? Hunter? Shaman? Farmer? Builder? What was their family life like?

Thank you!
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
The scenario I imagined was something like a GM saying that only templates in the rule book would be allowed and no two players may play the same template.

As a player who tends not to use templates, I thought that the question was assuming that all players must choose a template. I offered the extreme scenario as an example of something absurd to hold the far left side of the spectrum, while a completely free form (player dictated) creation might occupy the far right side (I assumed I did not need to mention this because of the context of the original question).

Anyway, the point of the post was simply to reinforce what you ultimately used as the solution.

Ah. I guess I could have been more clear in my premise. My main point was just to question if any GM would allow the same template to be reused verbatim in the same campaign universe. I think that would be silly, but it seems that some GMs would disallow certain templates from even being a player option because it being reused would be silly (1) as if the GM had no authority to just require the second PC to make some changes so it is not identical and (2) as if some templates would be somehow be ok to be repeated identically while others aren't.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How to solve two clones from the same batch, same traning class and team, same service etc.....
would not these two clones have same background as templates.
he template background is not ver long, and I don't see issues in the above with details that is making then diferent beut not mentioned in their to me obviously shared background
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the question comes down to the uniqueness of the characters. In such a case as this, I would ask whether the two players want to play the "same" character.

A big factor will be whether they are playing an imperial, rebel or fringe campaign. If the clones are loyal to the empire, then it is more possible for them to have nearly complete homogeneity.

On the other hand, if they somehow came to a point where they joined the rebellion or the fringe because they got left behind by their unit or captured and reprogrammed or whatever, then their motivations at the onset of the campaign might have some variation (and those motivations might even diverge further during the development of the story).

Ultimately, the very fact of their identical "background" would be a primary element of the overall story, rather than a mere "coincidence" if I were the GM.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kytross wrote:
If the Ewoks were from the same clan, leaving on the same ship. And maybe they didn't stowaway, maybe they traded with a smuggler who was on Endor's moon to harvest fungus to make the spice Rockna blue. Or maybe they were live captured by a hunter who sold them to a private collector or a zoo, etc.

I've had a lot of people play Ewoks, myself included, there's different ways to get them off Endor's Moon.

Just because they left the planet the same way doesn't mean they have the same backstory. What did they do for their clan? Hunter? Shaman? Farmer? Builder? What was their family life like?


Thing is, how well known to the universe WAS endor, before the empire put the DS2 there??
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